From Knuckledraggin-Tennessee11

[AuEagle]

Mexican-American Billionaire from New York Funds 'Tennessee 11' to Push Gun Control Agenda via 'Citizen Solutions' in 2024 - Tennessee Star

[Hozzie]

Shocker.  Just like we all thought when Mr Luke tried to dupe us all.  

[Omega]

42 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

Mexican-American Billionaire from New York Funds 'Tennessee 11' to Push Gun Control Agenda via 'Citizen Solutions' in 2024 - Tennessee Star

I said those folks smelled funny.  Coming on here and trying to get us to fill in their loaded questionnaire.

[scatman]

Interested to see what @Worriedmanhas to say on this matter.

[-boatman-]

I really wanted to believe that guy but never trusted him enough to fill out his survey. He did talk a good game.

[tacops]

If it walks like a duck...

[Jpoc700]

You know i saw Wayne Lapierre speak 40 years ago man I bought into his crap.  Talked slicker then Gavin Newsom, Just as evil.  verify and double check. Half the time it's for another agenda.   Great job pointing out this crap.

[HKfanTN]

Yep.  I wonder if any pro 2A supporters attended their public meeting earlier this week and how that went. 

[norsemen308]

You all can look up the trust and see it’s actually based in TX along with the Family who runs it. I have personally never met him.

The article is a hatchet job at best and miscategorizes anyone who is conservative in the project as a liberal plant. 

I and the other members of the TN11 fought specifically for the temporary removal proposal to be drafted closer to the removal limits currently in place for Domestic Violence. Our proposal is not a red flag law where hearsay and ambiguous hoops to jump through limits a person’s constitutional rights. As I said in the documentary I believe a person who has current domestic violence charges or law enforcement encounters, or current hospitalizations for threats of violence should not have access to a firearm until they are stabile and the requirements needing to be met for that right to be reinstated should be clear and easily achievable. 
 

what we already know is plenty of people are lobbying for red flag laws and those sentiments are inevitable in the conversation but I am confused how because 1 proposal that gives us heart burn makes it to the table you completely side step the other 4 proposals that are all wins for the gun community and our culture here in TN. 
 

 

[norsemen308]

On 1/12/2024 at 2:08 PM, HKfanTN said:

Yep.  I wonder if any pro 2A supporters attended their public meeting earlier this week and how that went. 

You want to know the most frustrating thing? Most of the Representatives and the one Senator that showed up where Democrats, 2 republican Representatives showed up, but neither wanted to engage in any discussion, nothing about the viability of the proposals or anything.

 

The whole thing went down just as I imagined, the Democrats know how to mobilize while the GOP leaves empty seats at the table. The current strategy of no discussion might work while TN has a republican super majority but the demographics of this state are changing fast. We can either educate others on why their right to self defense is important through engaging in conversation or let our active silence be the catalyst for future voters to be more accustom and comfortable with liberal talking points on the subject . 

 

 

 

 

[Omega]

16 hours ago, norsemen308 said:

You all can look up the trust and see it’s actually based in TX along with the Family who runs it. I have personally never met him.

The article is a hatchet job at best and miscategorizes anyone who is conservative in the project as a liberal plant. 

I and the other members of the TN11 fought specifically for the temporary removal proposal to be drafted closer to the removal limits currently in place for Domestic Violence. Our proposal is not a red flag law where hearsay and ambiguous hoops to jump through limits a person’s constitutional rights. As I said in the documentary I believe a person who has current domestic violence charges or law enforcement encounters, or current hospitalizations for threats of violence should not have access to a firearm until they are stabile and the requirements needing to be met for that right to be reinstated should be clear and easily achievable. 
 

what we already know is plenty of people are lobbying for red flag laws and those sentiments are inevitable in the conversation but I am confused how because 1 proposal that gives us heart burn makes it to the table you completely side step the other 4 proposals that are all wins for the gun community and our culture here in TN. 
 

 

Movement Partners - Starts With Us

 Daniel Lubetzky is listed right there, along with a bunch of very liberal far left supporters including Kathryn Murdoch, yes those Murdochs, 

Starting with red flag laws is NOT a way to reach out across the isles, if someone is too dangerous to be around guns, then they are too dangerous to be around society, taking their current guns away does nothing but make them get another gun or something far more lethal, and yes there are things more lethal.  

[norsemen308]

I think it’s important to distinguish that while the first proposal is being characterized as a red flag law, that proposal was not the starting point of the discussion. I was a part of a discussion with 10 other people, I alone cannot control the whole discussion or limit certain proposals from being discussed

What I find interesting is whenever in a gun store or at the range we all have frequent discussion of our frustration with anti-gun laws or policy being drawn up by individuals who are completely uneducated and proposing solutions that are redundant or ineffective.

And then we get in our trucks go home and do nothing while every legislative session more infringement makes it through and we just recycle our bump sticker one liners on how stupid this situation is.

Our strategy of silence is not working. remember it was a GOP Governor who called the special session and we are lucky that some political knee jerk reaction didn’t make it through. But we could choose to be proactive and we can educate the other side (there are people willing to listen) on why the policies they are proposing are ineffective. My experience in the TN11 project was if you do make yourself present for uncomfortable discussions you might even convert a few people to the realization that infringement and restricting law abiding citizens is not the way forward. 
 

 

Edited January 18 by norsemen308

[HKfanTN]

As for the first proposal: anyone who is truly a threat to self or others should not have their firearms removed, they should be placed into custody.  Those who support red flag laws will claim that violates the rights of an individual yet at the same time are advocating to violate their rights protected by the 2nd amendment. Red flag laws are a non starter IMO. 

[HKfanTN]

These are the five proposals.  The reason I cannot support them is they are too ambiguous. For example, gun issue literacy resources could easily be all anti-gun and promotion of restrictive gun control laws. None of these proposals are going to address the societal issues that drive violence, they are focused on firearms, not the people who misuse firearms. 

-Temporary removal of firearms based on risk of violence: This echoes Governor Bill Lee's proposal giving law enforcement the opportunity to ask judges to remove guns from people who pose a threat to themselves or others. The group suggested law enforcement pair with experts in crisis response to remove the guns.

-Tools to support responsible gun ownership: The groups suggested lawmakers develop tools to prevent illegal sales of guns as well as a voluntary background check system for gun sellers and gun buyers. It also recommended lawmakers offer resources to support people who don't feel safe and want to give their guns to a friend, family member or organization to hold.

-Expansion of School Resource Officer role: The group recommended changing the job description of SROs to include training on de-escalation and threat assessment, effectively transforming the job to emphasize human services grounded in restorative justice.

-Community investment to reduce trauma: The group recommended lawmakers work to reduce trauma in communities across the state, helping improve mental health outcomes while also improving economic opportunities to help people turn away from crime and violence.

-Gun issue literacy resources for schools, communities and media: The group said lawmakers should try developing age-appropriate gun issue literacy resources for schools, communities and media workers. The resources could include the emotional impact of using a gun against someone, the risks of using a gun, gun myths, gun violence risk factors and more. It also said public service advertisements could be created focused on safely storing guns and uplifting stories about responsible gun ownership.

The group did not suggest banning some types of weapons, and it did not suggest legislative restrictions that would prevent people from purchasing guns beyond the temporary removal proposal.

[norsemen308]

Are you clicking on the details?

https://cs.startswith.us/citizensolutions/tn/issue/2/proposal/11

because like the proposal:

for Gun Literacy Materials you would find further expansion on the details below. Every single proposal has a more in-depth picture when you click details.

 

• School resources could be integrated into existing social emotional learning (SEL), health, or civics curriculums.
• Media resources could include an unbiased language guide that defines factual terminology to discuss gun issues, and guidance on how to interview/report on families affected by gun violence. 
• Community resources could utilize a “train the trainer” model, with experienced firearms trainers first training community leaders on existing laws; safe gun use; safe storage; and de-escalation and avoidance tips. These leaders, in turn, would become qualified to train community members

Edited January 18 by norsemen308

[eRay]

On 1/17/2024 at 12:34 AM, norsemen308 said:

 

 

The whole thing went down just as I imagined, the Democrats know how to mobilize while the GOP leaves empty seats at the table. The current strategy of no discussion might work while TN has a republican super majority but the demographics of this state are changing fast. We can either educate others on why their right to self defense is important through engaging in conversation or let our active silence be the catalyst for future voters to be more accustom and comfortable with liberal talking points on the subject . 

 

 

 

 

I think where you and I  have a difference of opinion is with the Democrats willingness to quit once we give in to some of their demands. If we compromise on red flag laws they will have gained one step and will move on to the next. Next will be so called assault weapons, then next high capacity pistols, then lever action rifles and pump shotguns. They are never going to quit and every time you compromise with them you just move them one step closer to their goal of no private gun ownership.

We are like Israel trying to negotiate with Hamas. It is hard to make a deal when the enemy's ultimate goal is to wipe you off the face of the earth. It is just as hard to negotiate with the gun control zealots when their ultimate goal is to wipe all gun owners off the face of the earth.

Every time we give up a little bit, we are just moving them a little bit closer to that goal.

Edited January 19 by eRay

[Hozzie]

22 minutes ago, norsemen308 said:

Are you clicking on the details?

https://cs.startswith.us/citizensolutions/tn/issue/2/proposal/11

because like the proposal:

for Gun Literacy Materials you would find further expansion on the details below. Every single proposal has a more in-depth picture when you click details.

 

• School resources could be integrated into existing social emotional learning (SEL), health, or civics curriculums.
• Media resources could include an unbiased language guide that defines factual terminology to discuss gun issues, and guidance on how to interview/report on families affected by gun violence. 
• Community resources could utilize a “train the trainer” model, with experienced firearms trainers first training community leaders on existing laws; safe gun use; safe storage; and de-escalation and avoidance tips. These leaders, in turn, would become qualified to train community members

*could*.  
 

They just as easily leave out all of that once it is said and done.  Anything even remotely considerable has to use shall or must.   Words matter and it’s just a game to appease until it’s not.  

[norsemen308]

Hozzie 

great catch there, I definitely agree that the passive language could be manipulated. I can only speak to having said that I supported the proposal with those content pieces being a necessity and not an elective. 

[Omega]

I made my position clear on Red Flag Laws.

While I believe that gun owners should seek out training, I do not think the government should be involved.  Ad soon as they are, they will mandate training, before being able to have a weapon.  Once they get that passed, they will make training so difficult and/or expensive that very few will be able accomplish it.

As to the additional duties for a school resource officer, I think all that head-shrink stuff needs to be handled by a separate individual.  A school resource officer should be trained on his LEO duties, not counseling duties.

Background checks, while allowing more access to private citizens to use it sounds good, the ATF is already proposing no private sales without one, coincidence?  I think not.  They'd love nothing more than our willingness to use the tools they provide to send them to your door for being a dealer without an FFL because you accessed the system more than whatever arbitrary number they want to use to consider you a dealer.

No, that is enough giving away our rights.  There is no negotiating with the left, everything we give in to, they want more and more, enough is enough.  If you do not feel safe with your neighbor having a gun, get yourself one too!

[Worriedman]

On 1/11/2024 at 2:53 PM, scatman said:

Interested to see what @Worriedmanhas to say on this matter.

I have been down with total shoulder replacement (reverse method) since last Monday the 22nd.

Kicked the opioids Tuesday night so getting my sea legs back under me. 

Anyone who did not understand this was an attempted hatchet job is not paying attention, but, needing live, grassroots 2nd Amendment advocates involved to counter a seeming tsunami  of "organic" support for "common sense" gun laws should be apparent to everyone reading this thread. 

If we do not show up, they can point to a lack of desire on the great unwashed to engage and they win!

[NoBanStan]

I'm reading this proposals and all I see are a bunch of people who are compromising with people who want to take our God given rights.  That's all this is. The left creates the 11 bozo squad to twist your words into gun control. I get that you're trying to stand up for our side, but that's NOT what they want. They want to find creative ways to twist everything you say into ways for them to get just a liiiiiiitle bit more control. Then they can say "look, even the gun owners agree!"

My recommendation, enforce the laws you already have. I haven't broken them.