Private Property

[Rob White]

Ok so silly question but I really don't understand why state game laws apply to private property?

It seems to me that one should be able to control the animal activity and population control of their own private property.

Why can a wildlife agent give you a ticket for patrolling your own property with a weapon even though you haven't killed any game just bc it is hunting season. Im not a lawyer but I do question the legality of such actions???

[Omega]

Game animals belong to all of us, policed by the State.  So I do see a need for them to enforce game laws on private property.  But I do have an issue with them giving tickets when no law was broken.  Unless there are clear violations, then there should be no ticket, warnings maybe, if there is a perceived violation, but until a game law is broken there should be no citations.

[Alleycat72]

If you're not actively hunting, there is nothing they can legally do. If you are deer hunting out of session, they can. 

[Scotty]

^ both comments. As much as I’m no fan of big gov esp on private property, a small minority could ruin the whole ecosystem for the majority. 
 

Don’t hunt out of season or poach and you’re good. 

[Alleycat72]

I love hunting my own land.  No license and no orange required. You do have to check the deer or turkey in under land owner so knowing your plot and parsel numbers are a must. 

[peejman]

2 hours ago, Rob White said:

Ok so silly question but I really don't understand why state game laws apply to private property?

It seems to me that one should be able to control the animal activity and population control of their own private property.

Why can a wildlife agent give you a ticket for patrolling your own property with a weapon even though you haven't killed any game just bc it is hunting season. Im not a lawyer but I do question the legality of such actions???

There has been some major over-reach with regard to wildlife enforcement in the last few years. Look up "open field doctrine". 

That said, I agree with @Omega in that a few bad apples will certainly spoil it for the rest of us. Look up why there's no hog season in TN.

You are permitted to manage some nuisance wildlife (small game) on your property provided they're causing damage to property or crops.  Some animals (deer in particular) require a nuisance permit issued by TWRA to cull them. 

[Rob White]

I agree with most of the replies left by everyone so far. I still feel that state wildlife agents should have a warrant before they enter private property if they "suspect" or "assume" that a law is being broken. Also definitely as someone has pointed out that no tickets should be written if no crime has been committed I have seen so many people have to go to court to plead their case and get their guns back just because of overzealous agents making "assumptions" about their intentions. 

I also get angry when I have to chase off poachers from my own land so yes I do understand and appreciate very much the importance of the job they are doing not only protecting my property but the game also. However, I don't buy into the idea that they can manage game population better than I can do on my own property!!

I have seen over and over how my state lies about how much seafood and game is available and try to alter the seasons and control different areas to appeal to people with certain interest and have members on their boards. I been to the meetings and I understand what is going on. I don't think most people realize such things so I try to highlight it and point it out just to raise awareness of such actions sometimes.

Lots of time state wildlife biologist do little mini experiment that have very limited scientific validity and they pass it off as hard science to get laws passed and seasons and gps lines moved to their liking to appease the board members and controlling interest.

Private Property should be private and both state wildlife agents and poachers should stay off it in a "perfect world".

There is plenty of punishments for people who are poachers ,as most of us can think of:) I guess I feel like there should be more stringent punishments for overzealous agents, especially when citations have been given and no crime has been committed. "Sorry about wasting your time" or , "here you can have you gun back",  doesn't quite set things right with the world...

[gregintenn]

We have game laws to keep your neighbor from baiting and killing all the game you are trying to manage on your property. Since (thank goodness) government does not own all the land in the state, it is necessary that they go onto private property in order to enforce these laws.

While there are always going to be a small percentage of game wardens who are peckerheads, I believe the TWRA has done a decent job managing wildlife populations.

I’m not a .gov fan either, but some government is necessary because human beings are, by nature, vile creatures.

I prefer having the TWRA and a huntable population of game and fish over having neither.

[Snaveba]

Do you also own land in Tennessee? Or is this just happening in Louisiana?

[Chucktshoes]

14 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

Do you also own land in Tennessee? Or is this just happening in Louisiana?

I don’t know if he owns land in TN, but I can state definitively that it does occur in TN. We’ve discussed court decisions here of national notoriety in TN regarding open fields doctrine and its abuse. 

[Rob White]

I was speaking mostly about (Louisiana) dealings on both the commercial and residential sides. Commercial is much worse being that peoples entire livelihoods are affected by such actions. Old men in their 70s still trying to work as best they can being bullied and pushed around by some crooked peckerheads all trying to dip their weaseling fingers in the cookie jar.

Their objective isn't managing a fishing and hunting industry so everyone can hunt and fish happily ever after. They try to block as many people as possible from fishing and hunting anything that both is and isn't privately owned or leased. They try to pass so many laws and licenses and fees that you can't fish your own property much less public. They pass laws that take private leases away from the original people who had them only to award drilling permits to oil companies so they can make more money rather than the lease holders. They award those same leases to their friends and family members on the board. They pass laws and close seasons early and move pollution lines around to their liking just to block certain individuals from making a living while allowing their people to do whatever they like by not enforcing the same laws on them. I have seen with my own eyes ten boats dredging only a half of mile in  "closed waters" and 8 of those boats got very expensive tickets and their catch and equipment confiscated while the other two boats got to stay there working and not bothered by those same agents!! I don't think just reading these words anyone can really feel how messed up and unfair that actually is but its tough to get along with these actions going on.   

Then they use state resources to enforce such laws on you even if you don't try to color outside their unfair lines. They fly and monitor everyone with airplanes and satellites . They use thermal goggles and flir to watch people and follow them around making sure they don't  break any of the 1000s of laws they have created. They make a lot of the private lease holders that aren't on the board attach gps beacons to their vessels to make it easier for them to monitor with the satellites . 

 

Yeah I would they have gone way too far on their "overreach", but the truth is its way too late for most old men who already lost their way of living. 

 Im sure they are some good agents that just enjoy their job in the woods and want to make life better for everyone but those same good people are ignoring the actions of their bosses and boards and not saying anything about the bad peckerheads that are going around doing the bidding of the thieves.

But at the end of the day this is just my opinion and people can do whatever the heck they want to do and believe what they want to believe but this is what I see!!

 

Edited January 6 by Rob White
spelling correction

[ianb]

I read recently that twra lost their open field doctrine case and decided not to appeal. No more warrantless entries without probable cause. 

The biggest problem was that other LE agencies were claiming open fields fishing for other crimes. 

[chances R]

So.....it's my property, at anytime I can bait trophy deer and shoot them all?  Even though we know deer may travel miles crossing many property lines.  Same with bir tds such as duck, geese, cranes, doves.  I can bait them and basically control their movement thus denying many other landowners and the public the chance to have decent hunt.  That is why landowners need to have general restrictions, regulated by the state.

 

[Chucktshoes]

3 minutes ago, chances R said:

So.....it's my property, at anytime I can bait trophy deer and shoot them all?  Even though we know deer may travel miles crossing many property lines.  Same with bir tds such as duck, geese, cranes, doves.  I can bait them and basically control their movement thus denying many other landowners and the public the chance to have decent hunt.  That is why landowners need to have general restrictions, regulated by the state.

 

Those restrictions still exist. They are still enforced by the state. It’s just that the agency tasked within enforcing them must follow the processes set for gaining access to private property. In other words, they must respect the liberties and natural rights enumerated in the constitution and have a sufficient reason that can be articulated to a judge to acquire a warrant. 
 

The state is subservient to the people, not the other way around. This is the proper manner of things.

[chances R]

I totally agree with ChuckT, my response was directed to the OP.

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, chances R said:

I totally agree with ChuckT, my response was directed to the OP.

Tracking. Thanks for the clarification. I did misunderstand the intent of your post.

Edited July 14 by Chucktshoes

[ianb]

It is my understanding that use of drones to establish probable cause is still in the courts. I think they are currently grounded.