DANGER: Norma 9mm ammunition

[Fencersms]

UPDATE:

Got Norma on phone this morning (11/17); they have offerred to replace the remaining ammo (~524) and cover any expenses related to property damage as long as they're receipts provided from a licensed gunsmith. Will be calling Springfield today to see if they recommend a complete replacement, or dropping off at local gunsmith for evaluation.

Peace of mind would be "replace it all", stress fractures or other non-visible damage would be a persistent concern for me now.

 

POTENTIALLY AFFECTED SKU/LOT NUMBERS

• GECO 202200025 – Lot No: SAV22D0052, SAV22D0053, SAV22D0054, SAV22D0055, SAVD0056, SAVD0057, SAVD0058, SAVD0059, SAVD0060
• GECO 202200020 – Lot No: SAV22D0085, SAV22D0086
• Norma 911550050 – Lot No: SAV22C0024, SAV22C0025
• Norma 912450050 – Lot No: SAV22C0037, SAV22C0038, SAV22C0039, SAV22C0040, SAV22C0041
• GECO 270840050 – Lot No: SAV22C0030, SAV22C0033

Not sure where to put this, but thought I'd make a quick post for folks to check their 9mm ammo bags due to an incident I had while training Monday night.

• Ammo: Norma - 9mm - 124 Grain - FMJ - 500 Rounds BULK

• Seller: July 8, 2023 from https://trueshotammo.com/

• Firearm: Springfield Hellcat Pro

Lot of factors went in my favor i think;

1. was doing a 1-hand drill so my support hand was not on the firearm when the round exploded.
2. Believe the round blew out the bottom of the casing so most of the force went down through the magazine
3. Metal magazine reinforced the polymer frame

I have contacted TrueShot & Norma informing them of the safety risk of the ammo, as well as Springfield on recommendations on what to do with the gun. The gun is inoperable; brass shrapnel and completely locked up (from excess carbon/gunpowder?)

Has anyone else had something similar happen? Recommendations or expectations I should have from the companies? My expectation right now is Norma to at a minimum replace the two lots of ammo I have from them, as well as repair/replace my EDC.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Fencersms

[Darrell]

Wow, that's strange! It almost looks like the round fired before it was fully chambered, but that should be impossible. Please keep us updated on what Norma has to say, and good luck to you.

[OldIronFan]

2 minutes ago, Darrell said:

Wow, that's strange! It almost looks like the round fired before it was fully chambered, but that should be impossible. Please keep us updated on what Norma has to say, and good luck to you.

That is exactly what it looks like. 

Fencersms, If you know; 
How many rounds on the firearm total?
How many rounds fired that evening prior to the failure?
How many rounds since the last clean, lube, and inspection?

[gregintenn]

Not sure that’s an ammo problem.

Is the bullet still in the barrel?

[aknifemaker]

Is there a lot number on the ammo, I have some Norma 9mm I bought last year no issues with it.

Glad you weren't injured

[Sleep profit]

That’s a bad day on the range. Glad you’re okay. Interested in Norma response 

[Jamie Jackson]

Thanks for the info and photos @Fencersms. I too am glad you weren't injured.

I agree that this looks like an out of battery firing.

I've experienced it before and it was probably in a Glock as that's been the predominate autoloader I've shot since the late '90's. But I didn't have the extent of damage you experienced...just soot. But out of battery firing nonetheless.

 

I was just shooting some 124 gr 9mm Norma last week (got a great price on it) and noted it was "peppy" to my shooting buddies. Much the same feel as NATO spec 124, which we actually shot side by side with it.

I planned to chrono that Norma this coming weekend.

 

Do you have the lot# for this ammo?

I'm kind of gimped up right now, stairs are challenging with a cane, but I'll look at my lot numbers in the morning when I head back downstairs.

[leroy]

In the " old days " we used to shoot hot loads out of the old Gubt model Colt 38 supers using heavy bullets ( .140 grain 357s I think ) intentionally set over the max OAL so the bullets would rest on the barrel lands when chambered.  That " hillside engineering " fixed the headspace problem with the old supers.   

The rounds would bulge the cases on the first firing and blow em out at the point of non support at the bottom of the barrel at the magazine ALA a Glock on the second firing of the brass. 

The brass blow out looked a lot like this. This one looks pretty bad ta me due to the hammering of the case head.  Never saw one this bad.  I would look for a barrel obstruction here.

Sorry ta hear about your bad experience... Glad it was no worse than it is.

leroy...

[Garufa]

I’m thinking an overcharged round and/or defective case.  Too much powder I can see blowing the mag out.

Is the chamber in a Hellcat fully supported or is it Glock style?

Edited November 16, 2023 by Garufa

[deerslayer]

I think the more important question is whether or not the Hellcat can fire out of battery.  Anybody know for sure?

[Fencersms]

So, no reason to believe there was anything induced by the hellcat. I had just recently broke it down for a cleaning. As for the more technical questions about the gun, I couldn’t say. 

• I had probably only 25 rounds from that bag down range, so low round count. 
• No barrel obstruction, and no visible barrel damage from initial inspection (flashlight / mirror). 

Haven’t heard back from Norma yet, but have been told unofficially by someone at trueshot that I am not the first customer to have a more serious failure from the JULY lot from norma. 

unfortunately I don’t save ammo info, all I know it was bought in July and I’ve segregated that bag. Certainly doesn’t make me confident in the 500 rounds of frangible I bought from them few months later. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Fencersms

[Fencersms]

@Jamie Jackson would consider proactively contacting Norma and swapping that out after hearing im not the first person to have a dangerous failure. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Fencersms

[aknifemaker]

Just found this on another forum, check your powder boys

 

WARNING: IMPORTANT RECALL NOTICE REGARDING CERTAIN 9MM AMMUNITION

 

RUAG Ammotec USA, Inc. is issuing a voluntary recall of specific SKUs/articles and corresponding Lot numbers of 9mm ammunition identified below, due to possible performance inconsistencies in a small percentage of the ammunition.

DANGER: STOP USING YOUR 9MM AMMUNITION IMMEDIATELY UNTIL IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED WHETHER YOUR AMMUNITION FALLS WITHIN THE BELOW SKU/ARTICLE/LOT NUMBER LIST. FAILURE TO FOLLOW THIS INSTRUCTION COULD RESULT IN DAMAGE TO YOUR FIREARM AND/OR INJURY

POTENTIALLY AFFECTED SKU/LOT NUMBERS

• GECO 202200025 – Lot No: SAV22D0052, SAV22D0053, SAV22D0054, SAV22D0055, SAVD0056, SAVD0057, SAVD0058, SAVD0059, SAVD0060
• GECO 202200020 – Lot No: SAV22D0085, SAV22D0086
• Norma 911550050 – Lot No: SAV22C0024, SAV22C0025
• Norma 912450050 – Lot No: SAV22C0037, SAV22C0038, SAV22C0039, SAV22C0040, SAV22C0041
• GECO 270840050 – Lot No: SAV22C0030, SAV22C0033

DESCRIPTION OF ISSUE

Through its quality control efforts, RUAG has identified possible crimping irregularities in a small number of rounds within the ammunition SKUs/Lots identified above that could allow the projectile to be seated further into the casing than intended.  Continued use of the potentially affected ammunition could impact safe firearm performance leading to property damage and/or injury.

This issue could affect a small percentage of ammunition within the SKUs/Lots identified in the chart above.If you are uncertain as to whether your ammunition falls with the potentially impacted SKU/Lot numbers, or if you have any additional questions concerning this notification or need assistance with these instructions, please contact a RUAG Customer Service Representative by email: sales@ammoshoponline.com or phone: (912) 342-2272. For more information about this notice, you call also visit Ammoshoponline.com

 

HOW TO DETERMINE THE SKU/LOT NUMBER FOR YOUR AMMUNITION

The SKU and/or Lot number for your ammunition is located on the packaging as follows:

[Jamie Jackson]

@Fencersms

Thank you for the additional info and suggestions.

As I mentioned, I primarily shoot handloads and as a general rule Hate Norma 9mm brass related to it's incredibly small primer flash hole. But I recently purchased 500 rounds with a 2023 lot# and consider it much akin to Blazer aluminum as far as the brass goes. I just toss that brass. The price was too good to pass on and figured it'd save my primers for loading my .38's & .32's.

Sorry to thread drift.

As @Garufa mentioned it could be an overcharged round. I've seen it with hot loaded 9mm in Glocks.

I don't know how well supported the chamber is on the Hellcat. Hope you get this mystery solved.

 

I did see a couple of posts on various forums about a Norma 9mm recall but all of those lot numbers were from 2022 if I'm reading that correctly.

Best I can tell mine is 2023 mint.

I'll shoot them an email nonetheless and see what shakes.

I'm technologically challenged but think I have a pic of my lot number attached.

Keep us posted.

 

 

[Jamie Jackson]

Ha!

@aknifemaker posted what I read this morning as I was typing my reply.

Thank you.

[Fencersms]

@aknifemaker great find, shot TrueShot the details.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Fencersms

[Jamie Jackson]

Just stumbled across your edit/update in your OP @Fencersms.

Glad they are taking care of you and best of luck with the remaining concerns.

[Fencersms]

Appreciate the community’s support. Springfield gave me a 3-6 week turnaround. Curious to see what they determine the damage to be

[gregintenn]

There are a couple of Reddit threads showing Hellcats with similar failures. One stated Armscor ammo, and the other did not specify. I’m still unconvinced it was the ammo.

[Fencersms]

22 hours ago, gregintenn said:

There are a couple of Reddit threads showing Hellcats with similar failures. One stated Armscor ammo, and the other did not specify. I’m still unconvinced it was the ammo.

Think the ammo recall and Norma’s willingness to foot the bill for everything says it all honestly. If they could point finger at Springfield I’m sure they would have. Will circle back with any additional info from gunsmiths 

[gregintenn]

6 minutes ago, Fencersms said:

Think the ammo recall and Norma’s willingness to foot the bill for everything says it all honestly. If they could point finger at Springfield I’m sure they would have. Will circle back with any additional info from gunsmiths 

I expect you are correct, but just wanted to give you something else to think about. I hope it all works out in your favor and am glad you weren’t injured.

 

 Could be they aren’t sure, and are just trying to fend off lawsuits.

Edited November 19, 2023 by gregintenn

[Garufa]

It’s kinda hard to blame firearms manufacturers, especially when they are pumping out the smallest plastic pocket pistols as fast as they can for ammunition defects.  

The ammo is defective, Norma bears the responsibility.

[RonE]

Rather large flash hole in that case.

[Jamie Jackson]

2 hours ago, RonE said:

Rather large flash hole in that case.

Good point.

Below is a pic of Norma 9mm brass (right side) and Blazer 9mm brass (left side).

I've had decapping pins stuck a couple of times in the Norma 9mm (very small flash hole IME) so I now sort it out and toss it my my brass bucket.

[RonE]

I haven't had any problems with Norma 9mm bras to date as far as de-priming goes. I have run across some import stuff that has a very small flash hole that has up set my opperions.