Policy being drafted on Gun Rights and Safety in TN. *NEED PUBLIC PARTICIPATION*

[Frog4aday]

Do the survey and mark "strongly disagree" to all questions. The wording is confusing (by design) and the underlying objective seems to be figuring out where the weak spot is on the pro gun side so they can chisel away at that (whatever it turns out to be). Red flag laws seem 'reasonable' to everyone? Let's start there.

I appreciate the sincerity the OP is bringing as he seems like a genuine pro 2A advocate, but after reading the survey questions, I don't see that there is any clarity in how they are written to where a person can feel good about answering any of them with confidence that your answer will represent how you truly feel.

As @BigK put it "Those questions were architected to be used in any way the person who collects them sees fit." Now that I've seen the questions, I believe that is absolutely correct. 

I don't see value in doing this survey. Sorry OP.

I do see value in contacting your representatives & letting them know how you REALLY feel & I see value in showing up & voting for the PRO GUN candidate at election time. @Worriedman and the NRA & GOA can tell you who those people are. Vote. That is your secret power. Do it. Use it. Sitting it out allows evil to win.

[gregintenn]

The average gun enthusiast wants .gov to adhere to the second amendment as it was written. “Shall not be infringed” is a pretty simple concept to understand. There should be NO restrictive gun laws. There should be NO BATFE. You don’t need a poll for that. Leave us alone as the constitution requires. There is NO room for compromise. None!!!

[gregintenn]

On 11/7/2023 at 9:01 PM, norsemen308 said:

I think some how we got off on the wrong foot.

I was invited as the expert on Mental Health. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in TN, ID and CA. I have run congregate living facilities, Substance Abuse Programs and Homeless rehabilitation programs.

 

I am currently in private practice and my practice is built around providing therapy through Telehealth for primarily conservative individuals, couples and families. I am also a VA Community Care Provider.

as another way to vet me, here are my businesses

www.thementaloutfitter.com

www.wildethoscounseling.com

I posted a link to the project as a way for everyone to check it out themselves, you can also view a brief profile on me in the “participant” tab.

You are right that I am new to the forum, but where else am I going to find a collection of gun owners in TN who need to have their voices heard?

 

Feel free not to participate but dont complain a few months from now when data is shown on the floor of our House of Representatives that public opinion in TN shows “X” because you chose not to participate 

You have a ton of special interest money pouring into this state right now and this is probably the most influential way for your NO’s to be counted. 

The Pro Gun community in my opinion has abdicated its responsibility to show up and debate, debate doesnt mean concessions. It means speaking truth and facts over and over again. Idiocracy wins when one side uses silence as a strategy.

because when you dont show up, you will be assigned a narrative.

 

 

What do YOU propose to do to solve the issue of “gun violence”?

[BigK]

The idea of not trusting your opinions on guns to strangers has more merit than the OP realizes. Afterall, we're talking about 2A issues here that are protected by the Bill of Rights, not bond issues or legalization or mottos/symbols on a ballot initiative. If public opinion mattered as much as the law, we'd have lost our gun rights decades ago. With these questions, adding another number to the respondent count will NOT help our side when the stats are used against us.

 

[norsemen308]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:16 PM, gregintenn said:

What do YOU propose to do to solve the issue of “gun violence”?

The reason I showed up at all was because I have worked as Mental Health Professional for the past decade, and I believed that I had personal experience that needed to be shared.  It seems that most of the focus when it comes to gun violence and safety is focused on restriction and banning access to firearms. These are reactionary interventions.

What is interesting to me is that over the course of the last 100 years, the Gun Control Lobby has gotten everything they have asked for, and yet, there is no statistical evidence that suggests any of these policies, laws or restrictions had a positive effect. 

What frustrates me on top of this revelation is the fact that now the Mental Health community is being drug in as the new scapegoat. We are easily the current community that is used as political pawns to further an agenda hell bent on removing constitutional rights from American Citizens, but we as a segment of the population are not actually afforded the resources needed to have healthy sustainable mental health. Case in point. I could have housed every homeless Veteran in this nation, provided them a case manager, therapist and PCP for 10 years with the amount of money we have spent in Ukraine. It is my belief that if this country truly proactively invested in the mental health of this nation we would see a sharp decline in overall self-harm, active psychosis criminal activity, assaults and murder.

Instead, the Gun control movement is looking to further ostracize the mental health community by placing arbitrary limits on the people courageous enough to seek help for the mental illness. Just as recent as the special session, SB522 was aiming to place red flag restrictions on individuals prescribed certain anti-anxiety medication.  These medications where no where near the level of potency as say anti-psychotics and would have made it highly likely that an individual such as a stay at home mother, or everyday joe would be unable to purchase a firearm or ammo, not to mention the fact a lot of these anti-anxiety medications are prescribed off label for things such as acne and IBS.

Do I agree with everything that is on the survey? No, but thats not how the process works, people have a right, even if I disagree to bring their ideas to the table. It doesn't mean I accept those ideas, and I will do everything in my power to lobby against and work for education and dismissal of ideas that will infringe on our individual liberties. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by norsemen308

[TGO David]

@norsemen308I think the questions that everyone is asking in different ways are... 

 

1. Who nominated you to represent the gun owners of Tennessee?

and

2. Are you representing us well, or are you representing us in the way that a gun control organization would want?

 

[gregintenn]

40 minutes ago, TGO David said:

@norsemen308I think the questions that everyone is asking in different ways are... 

 

1. Who nominated you to represent the gun owners of Tennessee?

and

2. Are you representing us well, or are you representing us in the way that a gun control organization would want?

 

I wish I could articulate my thoughts as well as this.

[BigK]

If I had to designate anyone to speak on my behalf about 2A issues it would be TFA.

Edited November 15, 2023 by BigK

[norsemen308]

4 hours ago, TGO David said:

@norsemen308I think the questions that everyone is asking in different ways are... 

 

1. Who nominated you to represent the gun owners of Tennessee?

and

2. Are you representing us well, or are you representing us in the way that a gun control organization would want?

 

No one nominated me? I didnt seek this experience out, the opportunity came to me via email. I feel like this whole thread has been a mischaracterization of my intent. I am not the expert authority in anyone's life, I was trying to invite all of you to have your voices heard? If you want to participate, that is great, if you dont, thats your choice.  I am perplexed on what seems like a large majority in this thread are frustrated that I participated in this discussion? Because, I am not a life long Tennessian? I am too young? I am _________?

 

What have I said in this whole thread that infringes on the 2nd amendment right? Where have I articulated for compromise? Because we should be having discussions and trying to educate people on why their 2nd Amendment right matters? I had a wonderful conversation with Richard at TFA, It's great that in TN the state is blood red with a super majority in the House, but those days are numbered. We need to be recruiting people into becoming gun owners or better understanding what that right is and why it matters. A right that is not utilized is a right easily sacrificed. Being unwilling to educate the moderates is going to be what leads to managed decline here at home. 

 

2. I only know how to represent myself, I only know how to hold true to my own convictions and moral integrity. I believe in the God given Right to self defense and the right to bear arms.

[TGO David]

52 minutes ago, BigK said:

If I had to designate anyone to speak on my behalf about 2A issues it would be TFA.

I tend to agree and I'm fairly outspoken within my personal circles about 2A topics.  I would be inclined to be more reticent if someone shoved a microphone in my face or invited me to represent gun owners at large in some sort of "study group", such as being discussed here.

I am naturally distrusting when it comes to the risk of my words being misconstrued or used against me and would not want to risk being someone's tool to undermine the very thing that I thought I was trying to support.

I also feel like I am fairly cognizant of "swim lanes" and try to stay inside of mine.

[TGO David]

3 hours ago, norsemen308 said:

No one nominated me? I didnt seek this experience out, the opportunity came to me via email.

Yikes.  Well... have you heard about this other scam yet?

 

[Grayfox54]

There are people who make big bucks creating polls, surveys and such worded specially in a way to insure the desired outcome. I looked at your survey and found it to be extremely vague. Nothing more than loose generalities.  I don't trust it at all. 

Norseman308: for somebody who wants to be part of our community, Why do you only have 7 posts? Two in the New Members Introductions and the others all here. Are you not interested in actually joining us and discussing any of the many various topics here or are you just here to shill your survey? 

David makes a good point. Who the Hell appointed you our spokesperson? I sure as Hell didn't. I don't know you from Adam.  Thus far you've shown very little to instill trust from any of us. 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Grayfox54

[norsemen308]

41 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Who the Hell appointed you our spokesperson? I sure as Hell didn't. I don't know you from Adam.  Thus far you've shown very little to instill trust from any of us. 

 

I am confused how anyone would want to be a part of the TNGO community at this point. 

My post was simple, I was invited to a discussion, we had it, I believe more people walked out with an education in why the 2A matters and we made what was previously conceptual, tangible and thats how you build allies. After that discussion I have posted about the experience and this survey in different FB groups for TN hunters, gun owners, etc. I was pointed to TNGO being a place to get more eyeballs on the project so that hopefully the data would be influenced in the favor of TNGo's, Because we know that data can be targeted and if shelby, davidson and knox are the only counties participating, that data would look unfavorable and regardless would be preached as the truth.

I miscalculated though, I didnt think I would be cussed at or have my character insulted simply for participating. I have been active in trying to respond to this thread in good faith to provide clarity on why I think things like this matter while noticing that many of the replies by others highlight that people are not actually reading anything I am writing.  Instead members of this forum have taken a new member and have insulted me multiple times for absolutely no reason. 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by norsemen308

[Grayfox54]

When you've been lied to, sh!t on and treated like crap for as long as we gun owners have, you tend to distrust any stranger claiming they just wanna help. Maybe you're for real, maybe not. The point is that we don't know you. Why should we believe anything you say? Much less answer an extremely vague survey? 

 

1 hour ago, norsemen308 said:

I am confused how anyone would want to be a part of the TNGO community at this point. 

We have a great little community here. Maybe if you had made at least a little effort to join in on the rest of the board you might have had a chance. You aren't one of us and apparently don't want to be. You just want to use us for your own ends.  I don't trust that at all. 

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, norsemen308 said:

I am confused how anyone would want to be a part of the TNGO community at this point. 

My post was simple, I was invited to a discussion, we had it, I believe more people walked out with an education in why the 2A matters and we made what was previously conceptual, tangible and thats how you build allies. After that discussion I have posted about the experience and this survey in different FB groups for TN hunters, gun owners, etc. I was pointed to TNGO being a place to get more eyeballs on the project so that hopefully the data would be influenced in the favor of TNGo's, Because we know that data can be targeted and if shelby, davidson and knox are the only counties participating, that data would look unfavorable and regardless would be preached as the truth.

I miscalculated though, I didnt think I would be cussed at or have my character insulted simply for participating. I have been active in trying to respond to this thread in good faith to provide clarity on why I think things like this matter while noticing that many of the replies by others highlight that people are not actually reading anything I am writing.  Instead members of this forum have taken a new member and have insulted me multiple times for absolutely no reason. 

 

Sir.

You may well have the best of intentions. Fact is, we just don’t know. You might try settling in here and getting to know us before spring a poll of unknown quantity or origination on us. Or not. It is up to you.

[Grayfox54]

1 hour ago, norsemen308 said:

I was invited to a discussion,

No,  you started the discussion. AFAIK, You were never invited at all. 

[norsemen308]

4 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

No,  you started the discussion. AFAIK, You were never invited at all. 

Did you even read my first post? I was a participant in a discussion hosted by two non profits? I was sharing a survey they created from it. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Sir.

You may well have the best of intentions. Fact is, we just don’t know. You might try settling in here and getting to know us before spring a poll of unknown quantity or origination on us. Or not. It is up to you.

It's not my poll? It's a poll that came out of the discussion I was invited to participate in. I am not linked to these organizations other than being invited as an expert on Mental Health to speak about the roll Mental Health plays in gun violence.

 

 

[Grayfox54]

You talk like a politician. I'm done with you. 

[NoBanStan]

Alright, let's see what we can find out.

https://cs.startswith.us/citizensolutions/tn/issue/2

domain lookup
https://www.whois.com/whois/startswith.us a Go Daddy registered domain under the named Sarah Sarah - email address sdecarpentrie@lubetzky.org

Links to Sarah Senter Decarpentrie, director of the Philantropic Initatives at the KIND foundation  https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahsenterdecarpentrie

Lubetzky family. Linked to Daniel Lubetzky https://www.daniellubetzky.com/ - some cool stories on this site like "This is a Human Issue – We Need to Take Action to Stop More Gun Violence in America"

Sorry OP. If you want to know why people aren't biting the hook... it's crap like this. YOU may be an alright dude, but this path tells me that i want no part of it.

[gregintenn]

19 minutes ago, norsemen308 said:

Did you even read my first post? I was a participant in a discussion hosted by two non profits? I was sharing a survey they created from it. 

 

 

It's not my poll? It's a poll that came out of the discussion I was invited to participate in. I am not linked to these organizations other than being invited as an expert on Mental Health to speak about the roll Mental Health plays in gun violence.

 

 

Many of us here actually know each other. There are many good, trustworthy guys on this forum. You haven’t done anything this far to command that confidence we have in one another. 
 

I dealt with contractors my entire career. I am pretty good at sniffing out bullchit. To be perfectly honest, I’m not getting a good vibe from this thread.

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, norsemen308 said:

I am confused how anyone would want to be a part of the TNGO community at this point. 

*cough*

 

But seriously, you really do need to stop for a moment and read the room.  You basically pulled the spotlight onto you and announced that you're new but here to help.   

In case you missed it, the reaction you got is the quintessential "You ain't from around here, are ya?"

I am sure this hasn't gone the way you thought that it would, but the rest of us saw it coming.

[TripleGGG]

I have to say I believe the comments on this thread answer any "survey questions" without taking a survey. 

I ran the whois on the website link of the survey the first day of the post. I clicked through the questions and chose not to participate.

I can guarantee you every representative that represents my zip code on the local, state and federal level knows who I am and where I stand. Also the same can be said for many who do not represent my zip code. I have no fear of being known or being on any government list. If it takes a random survey with vague questions to make a difference then we've already lost the war. Send me a survey with hard questions based on hard data choosing hard decisions no one wants to make and you'll get my response. 

[norsemen308]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

 

In case you missed it, the reaction you got is the quintessential "You ain't from around here, are ya?"

 

Heard loud and clear, there's a big club here and I am not in it. 

 

[NoBanStan]

1 hour ago, norsemen308 said:

Heard loud and clear, there's a big club here and I am not in it. 

 

I wouldn't say that. I would say that it pays to join a community and learn about it a bit first before trying to get them to sign up for something.

*edit* It's also a bit sketchy to go back and remove your name from your original post, aint it Luke?

Edited November 16, 2023 by NoBanStan

[hipower]

I am trying to remain centered here and cut the OP some slack. I've gone thru this thread twice now to try and understand what both sides are saying. I see more validity to the skepticism exhibited by the people of TGO than the OP wishes to see. But as said here several times, the group has no base to work from for you, norsemen308. And with the information garned from several HIGHLY thought of and well know personalities here....well you are working from a disadvantage. A rather large one. While your credentials and intent are relatively unknown to the collective "us" here, most were willing to read and some to take this survey. I personally think your responses have been a bit strong and accusatory. Especially from your status as a "Newb". Trust must be earned. I don't see that you have made an attempt of do this.

We are all relying on personal relationships developed here over years, and decades in some instances. You cannot just jump in and rattle all these things off and expect to be treated as you would like. Trust has to be earned.

I'll still give you the benefit of doubt here. I did like some of your comments relating to the intent you stated.

However, I do note that this poll reads like the various pop-ups that appear on social media. I, for one, do not reply to those questionaires becasue the nameless and faceless, unknown sources lack the creditability, or familiarity necessary for me to post anything about my life or views on such a well known source of lies and inuendoes. Also, as TriplGGG, TGODavid, and others have said...you have no provenance of intent nor credibility to base your actions nor comments upon.

Perhaps I am quite gullible, and many would agree to that, but at first glance, I was willing to accept you as what you stated. Now, I'm not to sure.

For now, I think I'll just go back to Facebook and tell some stranger all the details of my life. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by hipower