Policy being drafted on Gun Rights and Safety in TN. *NEED PUBLIC PARTICIPATION*

[norsemen308]

Hello Fellow TN GO's

I was invited to participate in a 3 day discussion with 11 strangers on Gun Rights, Public Safety and Mental Health. Our session was also timed with the special session on gun rights and safety being done at the Capital a few months ago. The two nonprofits behind this venture are big in the policy sector and have strong political connections throughout the state and at a national level. These two nonprofits are currently trying to assist in policy creation here in TN focused on gun rights and safety. 

https://convergencepolicy.org/

https://startswith.us/

The whole experience was a blessing, and I think most of us will sit back surprised by the outcomes we walked away with. For the record I am a firm 2A supporter, I take deer with my 450 Bushmaster AR as often as I do with my bolt action or muzzleloader. I am an Originalist through and through. But I think we as gun owners need to take a proactive stance on engaging others and trying to facilitate conversations that lead to education and awareness for individuals who either are currently not utilizing their 2A right, or whom have only ever experienced 2A supporters as brash, bombastic, A-holes. I am tired of the same people who are trying to infringe on my rights being the expert source for what I believe as well. It's time we meet their energy level with engagement, and a desire to provide clarity. Entrenchment has been a game of managed decline for us for a while. 

There is an interactive part of the process that Starts With Us (main nonprofit behind the project) has created, so I would love it if you have time to answer a simple survey. I just want the results and data collected to be fair and balanced (full picture of TN.) Not just maybe the more activist side that has been very vocal to this point. It should be pointed out that it asks for your TN zip code because they are actually going to present this data at the capital at some point and it would be good to have a robust picture of what Tennesseans are actually thinking. 

 

https://cs.startswith.us/citizensolutions/tn/issue/2

Edited November 16, 2023 by norsemen308

[Patrick Henry]

I would like to see some long term members thoughts on this post from a member and benefactor who just joined. 

[Garufa]

10 minutes ago, Patrick Henry said:

I would like to see some long term members thoughts on this post from a member and benefactor who just joined. 

I for one, would like more information on the topics discussed during this 3 day summit, the participants involved, why OP was invited or otherwise involved, a copy of the agenda detailing the sessions scheduled and minutes of the discussions.

Ya know, basic info.  

 

[Hozzie]

Gun Rights and Public Safety in the same sentence is a dog whistle for gun control groups.  I’ll pass. 
 

I guess I should add, and I expect most here are similar, we would need A LOT more details to even start a discussion.   You may have the best of intentions, but color me skeptical. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Hozzie

[Whisper]

I looked over the survey and responded to those parts to which I could...which wasn't all that many.  There are far too many vague or even meaningless terms used here.  And, as is usually the case when surveys ask about red flag laws, this one just wants to know about support for red flag laws, without specifying whether these red flag laws would have adequate safeguards to protect people from being falsely accused and to allow people who are wrongly accused to have their firearms returned promptly.  Without those assurances, red flag laws will simply be a tool for harrassment of gun owners.

Whisper

[Omega]

I feel we have compromised way too many times, there is no meeting with the other side, I am out.

[Wheelgunner]

@ Patrick Henry - I've been on the forum about 10 years.  When I question a witness during cross examination, it isn’t to find out what's on his mind.  You catch my drift?

[Chucktshoes]

I actually went ahead and took the survey. Lots of vagueness in the questions and explanations of the questions. The responses here are about what I expected and make me proud to know y’all bunch of extremists.
 

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2023/10/27/starts-with-us-to-get-feedback-in-tennessee-for-gun-safety-input/71330296007/

To the OP, since you were a participant in this conference, I would like to off a thought. With regard to red flag laws/ERPOs/etc., they’re not an effective band aid, let alone a solution. I’m a hard line opponent of them due to their 4th and 14th Amendment issues. Also, they do little to nothing to actually address the root issues with the dangerous person. Until we can effectively create and fund mental health structures that can force an individual in crisis to receive help, even if they don’t wish it, we will be applying bandaids to sucking chest wounds and wondering why nothings working. 
 

You want the support of folks like me, start there. 

[norsemen308]

I think some how we got off on the wrong foot.

You are right that I am new to the forum, but where else am I going to find a collection of gun owners in TN who need to have their voices heard?

 

Feel free not to participate but dont complain a few months from now when data is shown on the floor of our House of Representatives that public opinion in TN shows “X” because you chose not to participate 

You have a ton of special interest money pouring into this state right now and this is probably the most influential way for your NO’s to be counted. 

The Pro Gun community in my opinion has abdicated its responsibility to show up and debate, debate doesnt mean concessions. It means speaking truth and facts over and over again. Idiocracy wins when one side uses silence as a strategy.

because when you dont show up, you will be assigned a narrative.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by norsemen308

[btq96r]

@Luckyforward, it would be good to hear your thoughts here. 

[22lr]

Done. Thanks for posting this. 

[DL126]

There is no gray area here, regardless of what a lot of people would like us to think.
"Shall not be infringed" to me, means STFU and stay out of it altogether.
Be it regulation, confiscation, registering, taxing, or controlling supply ...
Any of them are an infringement and a violation of the 2A.

ETA: (Not directed at anyone in particular)
In case anyone wants to point out the word "regulated", familiarize yourself more closely with where that word is placed, and what it meant in those times.
A well regulated Militia, w/o Arms infringement would be a nightmare to the folks who would love to see the population disarmed.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Edited November 8, 2023 by DL126

[DL126]

From the 1950 film "Colt 45" starring Randolph Scott.

[DL126]

Sorry ....

In the spirit of staying on topic, I took the survey.

Have a great day all!

[papa61]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:25 PM, norsemen308 said:

It's time we meet their energy level with engagement, and a desire to provide clarity. Entrenchment has been a game of managed decline for us for a while. 

This was my "red flag" We are entrenched because the anti's are never satisfied with compromise. We are talking about a God given right guaranteed not to be infringed by our constitution. I will not engage further.

[norsemen308]

57 minutes ago, papa61 said:

This was my "red flag" We are entrenched because the anti's are never satisfied with compromise. We are talking about a God given right guaranteed not to be infringed by our constitution. I will not engage further.

It's interesting you didnt quote me here? 

 

22 hours ago, norsemen308 said:

The Pro Gun community in my opinion has abdicated its responsibility to show up and debate, debate doesnt mean concessions. It means speaking truth and facts over and over again. Idiocracy wins when one side uses silence as a strategy.

because when you dont show up, you will be assigned a narrative.

 

 

There is no smoking gun here, I am not some plant. It flabbergasts me that we would rather sit in silence as our rights are further eroded than be proactive. Because  we want to scream? "Shall not be infringed."  Congrats on articulating the complexity of constitutional law in the space needed for a bumper sticker. Is the statement the truth? Yes. But to the uneducated do they understand it? No, and you are articulating that you are unwilling to educate them on that either. 

When you are unwilling to have even basic conversations because someone asks a question that you feel is hostile, you dont further educate that person, you dont potentially build an ally, what you actually do is almost guarantee an adversary.  

This is why the whole experience we had over 3 days was nothing short of inspiring. People who came to the table and said they were for banning firearms and severely restricting firearm ownership, walked away 3 days later setting up a time to meet with a firearm instructor to learn gun safety and proficiency. We need to find ways to encourage people to utilize a right that they previously felt they had no need for. Why cant we have Pro Gun Activists? Why can't we encourage firearm education and training to urban communities? Because the absence we leave as the Pro Gun Community is being filled with BILLIONS of dollars from the Gun Control lobby doing community outreach. They are willing to meet and have wonderfully ignorant discussions with the people you are unwilling to talk to.
 

For 100 years the Gun control lobby has gotten everything they have wanted....and our Pro Gun strategy is to??? Stay silent? To do nothing? Cause? It's been so darn successful with the NFA, GCA? Brady Bill? AWB? 

I am NOT for ANY  infringement on my or your 2A rights, but I am up for discussions that try to build inroads to people exercising a God given right that they were previously not utilizing. 

 

[papa61]

1 hour ago, norsemen308 said:

It's interesting you didnt quote me here? 

 

There is no smoking gun here, I am not some plant. It flabbergasts me that we would rather sit in silence as our rights are further eroded than be proactive. Because  we want to scream? "Shall not be infringed."  Congrats on articulating the complexity of constitutional law in the space needed for a bumper sticker. Is the statement the truth? Yes. But to the uneducated do they understand it? No, and you are articulating that you are unwilling to educate them on that either. 

When you are unwilling to have even basic conversations because someone asks a question that you feel is hostile, you dont further educate that person, you dont potentially build an ally, what you actually do is almost guarantee an adversary.  

This is why the whole experience we had over 3 days was nothing short of inspiring. People who came to the table and said they were for banning firearms and severely restricting firearm ownership, walked away 3 days later setting up a time to meet with a firearm instructor to learn gun safety and proficiency. We need to find ways to encourage people to utilize a right that they previously felt they had no need for. Why cant we have Pro Gun Activists? Why can't we encourage firearm education and training to urban communities? Because the absence we leave as the Pro Gun Community is being filled with BILLIONS of dollars from the Gun Control lobby doing community outreach. They are willing to meet and have wonderfully ignorant discussions with the people you are unwilling to talk to.
 

For 100 years the Gun control lobby has gotten everything they have wanted....and our Pro Gun strategy is to??? Stay silent? To do nothing? Cause? It's been so darn successful with the NFA, GCA? Brady Bill? AWB? 

I am NOT for ANY  infringement on my or your 2A rights, but I am up for discussions that try to build inroads to people exercising a God given right that they were previously not utilizing. 

 

How dare you assume to know what I think or how I engage others. Who gave you any authority to speak for anyone else? I speak for myself, both at the polls and after. I do not attend demonstrations, I do not engage in surveys. My stance is quite transparent and well known by those around me at work, at church, and in public for those who pay attention. My understanding of the Us Constitution is obviously better than yours because you would sit down and negotiate with those who wish to tear it down. And for what? to feel like you have accomplished something? Something like squandering away what is rightfully and legally ours? you're barking up the wrong tree in the wrong woods.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

[BigK]

It's hard to believe those questions were written so vaguely on accident. Mark Twain was right about lies, damn lies and statistics. Those questions were architected to be used in any way the person who collects them sees fit.

[RED333]

As a long time firearm owner I have run into MANY anti 2nd people. I will say for the most part did not care how I felt about anything as I am a pro 2nd person. Of the rest, well they did listen, but left still anti 2nd. I have a nephew that I did turn in a small way, he now understands that there is no gun show loop hole, but is still anti 2nd. I have become to old to waist my time talking to walls and rocks.

Any one willing to "give" an inch, hell , anything is a leftest commie pinko!

Anti 2nd has been taught at school for a long time.

[norsemen308]

I am continuing to be confused because I have not spoken once about "giving an inch" or infringing on the 2A to accommodate anyone? Yet that seems to be the only responses to my posts.

 

You do realize that most of the cases that are being won in front of SCOTUS is coming out of CA right? Funded by the California Pistol and Rifle Association. Which spent the last 2 decades completely rewriting the curriculum on public outreach and Pro Gun Activism, the proof of which is in the pudding. Your rights here in TN are being further enshrined by people willing to have conversations in an attempt to educate people. 

 

Thats all I wanted to invite people to.

 

 

[Worriedman]

On 11/7/2023 at 9:01 PM, norsemen308 said:

On 11/7/2023 at 9:01 PM, norsemen308 said:

 

The Pro Gun community in my opinion has abdicated its responsibility to show up and debate, debate doesnt mean concessions. It means speaking truth and facts over and over again. Idiocracy wins when one side uses silence as a strategy.

because when you dont show up, you will be assigned a narrative.

I would ask then where have you been in respect to the last 25 years of advocacy for the 2nd?

Some of us have been actively raising money and helping get solid supporters elected and on the committees that make the decisions.  

Writing the bills that gave us what little freedom we have.  I was in on the penning of Civil Immunity and worked it hard for two years to get it passed.  I did not see anyone else there walking the halls, but I sure did.

I posted 3 issues that need folks here to share with their elected employees, if you want to help, send those letters to the Governor, the Director of the TBI, the Commissioner of the Department of Safety, you house members and Senators.  I sent those write ups to over 40 legislators and talked to over 20 personally.  You want to make a difference, get to know them, get their cell phone numbers, be engaged at the GA.

Donate to the 2nd Amendment Foundation, Firearms Policy Coalition, Fun Owners of America and TFA.

Follow 4boxes and Tom Grieve, learn what the real rules are, not what feelings are.  

[gregintenn]

56 minutes ago, Worriedman said:

 

But do you have a survey we can take?

[norsemen308]

1 hour ago, Worriedman said:

 

This is why I joined here! Because I want to be a part of that! For over 13 years I did volunteer in a community called Calguns which pretty much fundraised and drove awareness for the CRPA. 

I am use to a local and state government that is hostile to its citizens and has no problem disenfranchising its constituents. That’s why I was interested in participating in a discussion. 

How many conversations do we have where we read a statistic and go “who the hell did they get to answer those questions?”

I thought this was a chance to influence a better outcome for what could have been a study that did not pull from a pool of individuals that truly represented TN Gun owners.

[Worriedman]

1 hour ago, norsemen308 said:

This is why I joined here! Because I want to be a part of that! For over 13 years I did volunteer in a community called Calguns which pretty much fundraised and drove awareness for the CRPA. 

I am use to a local and state government that is hostile to its citizens and has no problem disenfranchising its constituents. That’s why I was interested in participating in a discussion. 

How many conversations do we have where we read a statistic and go “who the hell did they get to answer those questions?”

I thought this was a chance to influence a better outcome for what could have been a study that did not pull from a pool of individuals that truly represented TN Gun owners.

Then contact me, I am the West TN Director of the Tennessee Firearms Association.  I can be of assist if you truly want to learn the ropes at the  Legislature.  Cell Phone is 731-217-0134.

[Sunfish]

Go Richard Go Richard