Israel Attacked (This will be interesting...)

[crc4]

7 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Not really. You keep using metaphors to avoid using plain language. Gaza has a median age of 19 years old. The majority of the population are children. Are they considered snakes in that den? Are they deserving of being wiped out? So once again, I will ask my question in plain English, and would hope for an answer in plain English.
 

Am I understanding your position correctly that you are advocating for a genocide of the Palestinians?

Sorry your reading comprehension isn't working. I made it plain. Wipe out the terrorists. Destroy the snake den. Those that stand in the way of removing the terrorists are aiding the terrorists and need to go. 

I feel the same about dropping the bombs on Japan. I wasn't for the genocide of the Japanese. I was for the utter destruction of their ability to fight. Same here.

Make of it what you will. It matters not to me.

Edited October 10, 2023 by crc4

[TGO David]

6 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

.The majority of the population are children. Are they considered snakes in that den? Are they deserving of being wiped out? So once again, I will ask my question in plain English, and would hope for an answer in plain English.

What ideology are those children being raised to believe in?

It's a hard question but you know it's one that has to be answered.  Western society likes to believe that all kids the world-over are just cute little tykes playing with building blocks and watching Cocomelon on TV.  That simply isn't true.  Some of those kids have been robbed of their innocence and their childhood and have, by their own parents, already been turned into fanatics who would kill you if given the chance.

It disgusts me that there are places in this world where children cannot just be children.  Where they are taught to hate and to kill.  There is most certainly a place in hell for the adults who turn them into that.

This sort of #### is why some of my friends who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan have debilitating PTSD.  They have seen children commit atrocious war crimes and can't rid themselves of those memories.

I don't have an answer for how this is handled cleanly.  The only thing I can do is pray and ask God to save as many kids on both sides of the Israeli border walls as He can.

 

[Defender]

14 minutes ago, crc4 said:

I want Israel to have aid military and civilian help. I don't want US troops on the ground. I should have stated that. Thanks.

Agree.  And I want us out of Ukraine as well.

[Hozzie]

Some call it genocide, I would call it making casualties of war.  

It's obviously not all of the Palestinians that support Hamas, but I am certain the vast, vast majority were glad with what happened.  I have spent more years than most in Europe and have seen first hand how the infiltration of Muslims has progressed and the sheer disregard for anything outside of their own beliefs as immigrants.  After 911, I had many conversations with coworkers in France and Belgium who were Muslim and by all accounts, seemingly decent people.   That being said, there was not a single local person in our offices who believed our Muslim coworkers felt any remorse or quite frankly didn't quietly think what happened was justified.

I firmly believe the amount of casualties over time will be the same.  Drag it out over years or do with unprecedented force now.  I will take the short path every time.   It's pretty simple to me.  What ended WWII, unprecedented force!

Does that make me a bad person, maybe.   I can live with it.

 

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, TGO David said:

How is bombing the Gaza Strip back to the stone age any different than allied forces leveling Berlin and other towns and cities in Germany during WWII?  Not all German people were Nazis anymore than all Palestinians are Hamas, but the world apparently recognized the fact that eradicating cancer unfortunately comes with the pain of surgery and committed themselves to eradicating cancer.

Look... I don't want collateral damage.  I wish there were a clean way to deal with this.  I'm not seeing one.

What's your recommendation?

 

While there have been many arguments made that the fire bombing of cities like Tokyo and Dresden constituted war crimes committed by the allies, it was the situation of state actors involved in declared warfare. It’s not a one to one comparison with a state actor, going after nonstate actor combatants embedded in civilian populations.
 

I think a more comparable situation can be found in Iraq. When US forces leveled Falluja, they set up a civilian humanitarian corridor to allow noncombatants and innocence to escape prior to invading. This is required by the laws of warfare and failure to do so constitutes a war crime. 

Just now, TGO David said:

What ideology are those children being raised to believe in?

It's a hard question but you know it's one that has to be answered.

It’s not a hard question. It’s one we all know the answer to. But the question I ask is does that justify a death sentence against those children now?

[crc4]

13 minutes ago, TGO David said:

What ideology are those children being raised to believe in?

It's a hard question but you know it's one that has to be answered.

The terrorists aren't fighting to achieve a peace. They've stated time and again they want the death of every Jew and the destruction of Israel. I believe them.

That's the reason they must die and the destruction of that belief must perish for peace to occur. If it takes the death of 10,000 people or 250,000 to achieve, that's fine with me. No mercy to terrorists, foreign or domestic.

Edited October 10, 2023 by crc4

[crc4]

2 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

While there have been many arguments made that the fire bombing of cities like Tokyo and Dresden constituted war crimes committed by the allies, it was the situation of state actors involved in declared warfare. It’s not a one to one comparison with a state actor, going after nonstate actor combatants embedded in civilian populations.
 

I think a more comparable situation can be found in Iraq. When US forces leveled Falluja, they set up a civilian humanitarian corridor to allow noncombatants and innocence to escape prior to invading. This is required by the laws of warfare and failure to do so constitutes a war crime. 

It’s not a hard question. It’s one we all know the answer to. But the question I ask is does that justify a death sentence against those children now?

Better the dead children of terrorists and their supporters who use them as shields than the children of Israel.

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, crc4 said:

Better the dead children of terrorists and their supporters who use them as shields than the children of Israel.

I appreciate you taking the mask off.

[crc4]

1 minute ago, Chucktshoes said:

I appreciate you taking the mask off.

Check your vision. I wasn't wearing one.

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, crc4 said:

Check your vision. I wasn't wearing one.

There’s a difference between using metaphors to dance around the subject to say something without actually saying it, and openly advocating for the murder of children because of who their parents are or where they were born.

This was the whole point of this line of questioning that I was posing. When we talk about things like “leveling the place“ “wiping them all out” and such, we are speaking in terms of genocide. Killing not just people who do evil but everyone around them, including, innocents, women and children. I choose to believe that many of us here engage in this kind of language, without fully walking it out completely in our minds, and understanding what we are really saying. I have to.

I want people to think about what the concrete actions and consequences of those actions are that they advocate for. Those who are comfortable advocating for actual genocide, there is nothing further for me to engage with them at that point. They are as inhuman to me as the Hamas terrorists, who slaughtered women and children this weekend. One cannot decry the calls for the death of the Jews by Muslims, and in the next breath advocate for the genocide of Palestinians and maintain any semblance of a moral consistency.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, crc4 said:

Better the dead children of terrorists and their supporters who use them as shields than the children of Israel.

If I even HAD a shred of a mask on before, consider it off . Level Gaza with every swinging jack in it, and do it now. And BiBi, you're going to have to write the hostages off with all of Gaza. Get the idea burned into your head and get on with it. Half of them are probably dead, the other half, some are probably praying to die right now. It's a tough nut. So make Hamas pay. And MAKE THEM KNOW THEY ARE DEFEATED, once and for all...  If you don't, be prepared to face them, or AND their children, or AND their children's children later (and over and over and over again.) There's no equivalency here, none.  Some here would have us believe that Israelis terrorists para glided across the border into Gaza and started this whole thing. It didn't happen like that.

Was it genocide to nuke Japan?  "Genocide" is becoming the new "racist".  Another dog whistle to shut down everybody who favors Israel taking action after being infiltrated, then invaded and attacked, with their citizens being kidnapped for ransom, rape, torture and murder.

Edited October 10, 2023 by OMCHamlin

[crc4]

15 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

There’s a difference between using metaphors to dance around the subject to say something without actually saying it, and openly advocating for the murder of children because of who their parents are or where they were born.

This was the whole point of this line of questioning that I was posing. When we talk about things like “leveling the place“ “wiping them all out” and such, we are speaking in terms of genocide. Killing not just people who do evil but everyone around them, including, innocents, women and children. I choose to believe that many of us here engage in this kind of language, without fully walking it out completely in our minds, and understanding what we are really saying. I have to.

I want people to think about what the concrete actions and consequences of those actions are that they advocate for. Those who are comfortable advocating for actual genocide, there is nothing further for me to engage with them at that point. They are as inhuman to me as the Hamas terrorists, who slaughtered women and children this weekend. One cannot decry the calls for the death of the Jews by Muslims, and in the next breath advocate for the genocide of Palestinians and maintain any semblance of a moral consistency.

 

The moral consistency is that terrorists must die. I've worked it out in my thoughts. If children are victims, it's because of their family's belief that all Jews must die. If bombs fall on terrorists and innocents people die, that's not on Israel.

I'm a hard man, but I want those who commit terrorism to die and if collateral damage occurs, that's acceptable - regrettable, but acceptable.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by crc4

[TGO David]

21 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

There’s a difference between using metaphors to dance around the subject to say something without actually saying it, and openly advocating for the murder of children because of who their parents are or where they were born.

 

 

40 babies slaughtered by Hamas terrorists.  Some reports I have read said that infants were found beheaded.

Just something to keep in mind as we're having the unmitigated gall to armchair quarterback the response of people who are having to match up the severed heads of their infant children with the bodies so that they can bury them.

I think I'm done participating in this thread for now.  Going to go hug my kids and try not to go crazy thinking about how I need to protect them from this kind of #### in our world.

If I were a father of a murdered child in Israel right now, I'm not sure anyone could talk to me about maintaining civility without it becoming uncivil.

 

 

[crc4]

3 minutes ago, TGO David said:

 

 

40 babies slaughtered by Hamas terrorists.  Some reports I have read said that infants were found beheaded.

Just something to keep in mind as we're having the unmitigated gall to armchair quarterbacking the response of people who are having to match up the severed heads of their infant children with the bodies so that they can bury them.

I think I'm done participating in this thread for now.  Going to go hug my kids and try not to go crazy thinking about how I need to protect them from this kind of #### in our world.

 

Also think about how you're going to protect them from the terrorists coming through the undefended southern border and the terrorists who riot, loot, and murder in US cities. 

[TGO David]

1 minute ago, crc4 said:

Also think about how you're going to protect them from the terrorists coming through the undefended southern border and the terrorists who riot, loot, and murder in US cities. 

I'm keenly aware, thanks.

 

[BigK]

These monsters were nurtured in the arms of these Palestinian "innocents". These repugnant terrorist pieces of crap were fed, educated, and encouraged there. Hamas didn't raise them, Hamas gave them an outlet for the evil that was instilled in them by their upbringing. Not all Palestinians are beheading babies, raping innocent women in the streets, and murdering REAL innocents in the streets, but they all are complicit and their hands are NOT clean. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BigK said:

Not all Palestinians are beheading babies, raping innocent women in the streets, and murdering REAL innocents in the streets, but they all are complicit and their hands are NOT clean. 

I'd nearly go as far to say that their vocal supporters, (wherever they are) are complicit.

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, OMCHamlin said:

I'd nearly go as far to say that their vocal supporters, (wherever they are) are complicit.

What about those that financed them?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Edited October 10, 2023 by Chucktshoes

[TGO David]

4 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

What about those that financed them?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Dude, to hell with anyone who had any involvement in this.  On any side.  I don't need to be convinced that if you follow the money, it will lead you many dens of vipers.  It doesn't matter who they are, they need to be brought out into the light of day and then be dealt with swiftly and severely.

It feels like you're intent on making sure we know who's involved as if that will bring about some soothing moral equivalency that will ease the pain.

The agony of a dad burying his child isn't diminished by knowing that his own government was somehow complicit or somehow made moves on the chess board decades ago that lead to this moment.

[Hozzie]

11 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

What about those that financed them?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

We finance all kinds of crap, so I guess we are ultimately responsible for all of it?  Death to America?

Edited October 10, 2023 by Hozzie

[gregintenn]

1 minute ago, Hozzie said:

We finance all kinds of crap, so I guess we are ultimately responsible for all of it?  Death to America?

Probably more accurate than you imagine. Personally, I rank our current crop of federal politicians and lobbyists right down there with Hamas.

[gregintenn]

48 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

There’s a difference between using metaphors to dance around the subject to say something without actually saying it, and openly advocating for the murder of children because of who their parents are or where they were born.

This was the whole point of this line of questioning that I was posing. When we talk about things like “leveling the place“ “wiping them all out” and such, we are speaking in terms of genocide. Killing not just people who do evil but everyone around them, including, innocents, women and children. I choose to believe that many of us here engage in this kind of language, without fully walking it out completely in our minds, and understanding what we are really saying. I have to.

I want people to think about what the concrete actions and consequences of those actions are that they advocate for. Those who are comfortable advocating for actual genocide, there is nothing further for me to engage with them at that point. They are as inhuman to me as the Hamas terrorists, who slaughtered women and children this weekend. One cannot decry the calls for the death of the Jews by Muslims, and in the next breath advocate for the genocide of Palestinians and maintain any semblance of a moral consistency.

 

You care to offer a solution?

[Defender]

I fear its coming here, and soon.  9/11 was bad enough, but it will be worse when people in the

heartland are afraid to even go out.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Defender

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

You care to offer a solution?

Actually, THAT would be very intriguing.

[TGO David]

6 minutes ago, Defender said:

I fear its coming here, and soon.  (/11 was bad enough, but it will be worse when people in the

heartland are afraid to even go out.

There's a whole segment of American society that is willing to demonstrate the truth of FAFO if that ever really happens.