Israel Attacked (This will be interesting...)

[Links2k]

3 hours ago, TGO David said:

Is that the only map we're allowed to use, or can we go even further back... centuries back... to see who had claim to the land before?

Over the course of its history, Palestine has been owned by Ancient Egypt, Ancient Israel, Judah, the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great, the Roman Empire, several Muslim Caliphates, the Ottoman Empire, and then finally the United Kingdom before it was divided in 1948 between Israel and the Gaza Strip.

Ownership of the dirt beneath Israel has been hotly contested practically since the beginning of human civilization.  It has always been a crossroads for commerce, culture, and religion, and a slew of kingdoms and governments have had laid claim to it over the centuries.

You'll note that Ancient Israel is in that list and their claim to the land began somewhere around 1200 years before the birth of Christ.  So, if we're just comparing receipts, they've got a pretty old claim to that dirt and it's not just circa 1948.

 

We can use any map you choose. The fact remains, prior to being occupied by other nations. Palestine existed. It wasn’t organized, but it existed. Because of it’s weakness, Palestine fell under heavy Egyptian influence/control. 
 

The earliest recordings of the ancestors of modern day Jews appearing in Palestine was during the late 1200s and early 1300s bce.  The forefathers of the Israelites were driven to northern Palestine by Egypt where they thrived, because of the terrain and their ability to adapt, innovate and use Egyptian culture for their benefit. 
 

I’ll concede Palestine has been occupied by many different empires, due to being weak and content. But at the end of the day, the Palestinians possessed the dirt first. 
 

As for the rest of the story, we know that after the war, America wasn’t going to place a Jewish state in the mid-western United States or on any of America’s coast. Europe wasn’t going to cede Central Europe or any of its coast for a Jewish state. So it was agreed, to use a popular American phrase to “send them back where they came from.”

 

What we have today is a Jewish apartheid state supported by the U.S. and Europe. The original inhabitants of that land have every right to have grievances, especially with all that’s occurred since the British decided to wipe their hands of the territory.  
 

It was inevitable that Israel would continue to expand and dominate Palestine due to having benefactors providing military and financial support. Modern day Israel also greatly benefits from from Christian beliefs. Without the benefit of American Christian culture and a strategic military presence, Americans wouldn’t be so up in arms over what transpired last weekend. 

I agree with one member that what’s happening in Israel/Palestine correlates to what’s happening on our southern border.  As I stated earlier, those affected Americans are concerned that immigrants will do to them what Israel has done to Palestine  

All of this being said, there is no justification for the murder of innocent civilians anywhere in the world. Israel and Palestine both deserve better futures. 

[Links2k]

20 minutes ago, TGO David said:

 

Fortunately, there's a map that explains everything!

 

Touché 

[papa61]

49 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

My thoughts on the matter could get me banned, but If I were Israel......the world would pause for a moment. 

I've had to reign myself in several times on this thread. And I am usually quite free with my opinions. Civil discussion with people who do not know me requires restraint. But I have mostly enjoyed this and learned a few things.
I believe we should all pray for the days to come.

[crc4]

4 minutes ago, papa61 said:

I've had to reign myself in several times on this thread. And I am usually quite free with my opinions. Civil discussion with people who do not know me requires restraint. But I have mostly enjoyed this and learned a few things.
I believe we should all pray for the days to come.

I'm not a praying man, but I do hope that Hamas, its supporters, the PLO, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood become sand worm food. It's time for a big foot to stomp them like a cockroach on the kitchen floor, and use poison for the cockroaches hiding in the cabinets.

Biden's bloody hands are on every bomb, terrorist, and rocket by his payments to Iran, the ass-kissing of Obama and Biden to terrorists, and their selling out of Israel.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by crc4

[leroy]

There has been a lot of manure spread here with some nuggets of wisdom interspersed here and there.  That said; here are some things to think about:

1... Iran is the " Head of this Snake ", and has been for the last fifty years or so.  We, the good ole USA, and the Western Allies made Iran.  We treated the father of this trouble, the Ayatollah Komeni, like a rock star, and allowed him to drag Iran back into the tenth century... So much for American and Western thought.  Thank the dumbo Jimmy Carter for that.

2... Until Iran is neutered, there will be no peace in Israel or anywhere else in the Middle East.

3... Remember, the Mullahs see Israel as " The Little Satan ", and the good ole USA as " The Great Satan "... Six Billion garbanzos and toadying up to these insane barbarians has not changed anything with them.

4... This latest attack on Israel was orchestrated and approved by Iran... They have said so.

5... No amount of pleading or cajoling the Israelis will work now.  They are simply too mad for any moderation.  I think that anyone implicated in this will pay a heavy price.  That includes Iran.

6... I do not think that a nuclear strike against Iran is out of the question. 

7... I do believe that the " Palestinian States " of Gaza and The West Bank will cease to exist; along with anyone else who meddles in this.  I believe that God alone, is the only Being who can stay their hand now.

8... Brother Greg is right; we are not the world's policemen.  We better sit this one out and give the Israelis what they ask for, if we can.

isolationist leroy...

Edited October 10, 2023 by leroy

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Links2k said:

...The fact remains, prior to being occupied by other nations. Palestine existed. It wasn’t organized, but it existed. Because of it’s weakness, Palestine fell under heavy Egyptian influence/control. 
 

...The forefathers of the Israelites were driven to northern Palestine by Egypt where they thrived, because of the terrain and their ability to adapt, innovate and use Egyptian culture for their benefit. 
 

...I’ll concede Palestine has been occupied by many different empires, due to being weak and content. But at the end of the day, the Palestinians possessed the dirt first. 
 

I agree with one member that what’s happening in Israel/Palestine correlates to what’s happening on our southern border.  As I stated earlier, those affected Americans are concerned that immigrants will do to them what Israel has done to Palestine  

All of this being said, there is no justification for the murder of innocent civilians anywhere in the world. Israel and Palestine both deserve better futures. 

I'm seeing an ancient, but familiar thread here, Palestinians: "weak." Israelites: "thrived, because of the terrain and their ability to adapt, innovate and use Egyptian culture for their benefit."

You know how that whole "way of the world" thing generally works out, right?

But THIS pearl caught my attention; please, break THIS down for me, could you? "As I stated earlier, those affected Americans are concerned that immigrants will do to them what Israel has done to Palestine" You think that Americans in border states are concerned that immigrants will do what, exactly??? 

 

[deerslayer]

I've seen some videos of the attacks and I now think most of this thread is largely irrelevant.  Whether or not Israel is legitimate or is an apartheid regime or stole land from the Palestinians or lived there first or Netanyahu knew about the attack - none of it matters.  Beheading civilians with shovels and raping grandmas and abducting toddlers is probably going to net a result somewhat different from whatever Hamas had hoped to achieve.  I doubt Hamas and Palestine and perhaps Iran exist much longer and I bet Israel doesn't give three flying monkey sh*ts what the UN or Amnesty International or the rest of the world thinks about what they are about to do.    

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, OMCHamlin said:

You think that Americans in border states are concerned that immigrants will do what, exactly??? 

 

I believe many Americans are afraid that immigrants from across the southern border will eventually (decades) take over the country or at least change the country to something less comfortable than the America of the 1950’s that so many seem to still yearn for. 
 

Anyway, I’m out.  I’ll continue to enjoy this thread silently. 

IMAGINE PEACE!

 

[RED333]

John Lennon was a commie, but would not admit it.

Lennon later confirmed that the similarities between his ideals set out in the song and Communism were indeed deliberate: "'Imagine', which says: 'Imagine that there was no more religion, no more country, no more politics,' is virtually the Communist Manifesto, even though I'm not particularly a Communist and I do not belong to any movement."

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/john-lennon-imagine-real-meaning-communism/

[Defender]

Pure evil is everywhere, but Hamas and others like it are even more so. 

[TGO David]

My wife reminds me all the time, especially when dealing with my trouble-making neighbors as a representative of the HOA board (a mistake I will never make again), that I spend too much time trying to bring people around to my way of thinking.

I believe that she's right.  I've spent too much time doing that in this very thread.

My opinion, therefore, is that Israel should unleash hell on Palestine and Iran and forever change the map of the Middle East.  If this accelerates the end of the world, then come quickly Lord Jesus.

 

[-boatman-]

45 minutes ago, TGO David said:

My opinion, therefore, is that Israel should unleash hell on Palestine and Iran and forever change the map of the Middle East.

 

IMO the best single sentence in the seven pages of this thread.

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

 

My opinion, therefore, is that Israel should unleash hell on Palestine and Iran and forever change the map of the Middle East.  If this accelerates the end of the world, then come quickly Lord Jesus.

 

Looks like you might be getting your wish. 
 

 

[Chucktshoes]

As is always the case with something like this happens, a great question to ask yourself is “are you being manipulated, and by whom for what ends?”

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

...My opinion, therefore, is that Israel should unleash hell on Palestine and Iran and forever change the map of the Middle East.  If this accelerates the end of the world, then come quickly Lord Jesus.

 

I find myself in a very rare position, absolute total agreement with you on this topic.

[TGO David]

16 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

As is always the case with something like this happens, a great question to ask yourself is “are you being manipulated, and by whom for what ends?”

Here's where I am at with this:

Who gunned down Israeli children in their beds and cribs, or hiding in safe rooms with their families?  Who gunned down Israeli concert-goers as they scattered looking for a safe direction to run?  Who captured, raped, beat, and killed Israeli women of all ages?  Who knocked on doors in residential areas and gunned down the Israeli citizens who naively opened the door to see who was there?

Find the people who did that.  Find the people who financed it.  Find the people who planned it.  Find the people who knew about it in advance, remained silent, and allowed it to happen.  And then end them.  All of them.

I don't care to sort out agendas or to play 4D Chess.  If someone was involved, they need to go.  I don't care what side of the argument they were on.

 

[Erik88]

21 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

As is always the case with something like this happens, a great question to ask yourself is “are you being manipulated, and by whom for what ends?”

 

 

It's painfully obvious they knew this attack was going to happen and allowed it. To believe otherwise it would mean one of the worlds best intelligence groups had the biggest failure since 9/11.  

We are all being manipulated and all the usual suspects are banging the war drum. I just hope we watch from a distance and don't get involved. 

 

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Here's where I am at with this:

Who gunned down Israeli children in their beds and cribs, or hiding in safe rooms with their families?  Who gunned down Israeli concert-goers as they scattered looking for a safe direction to run?  Who captured, raped, beat, and killed Israeli women of all ages?  Who knocked on doors in residential areas and gunned down the Israeli citizens who naively opened the door to see who was there?

Find the people who did that.  Find the people who financed it.  Find the people who planned it.  Find the people who knew about it in advance, remained silent, and allowed it to happen.  And then end them.  All of them.

 

The question to ask at that point is “at what cost?”

Is there a price that is too high to pay to achieve these ends? Who will pay that cost, and who will benefit?
 

The cost of vengeance rarely exacts a lesser toll on the person seeking it than the person receiving it.

[crc4]

1 minute ago, Erik88 said:

It's painfully obvious they knew this attack was going to happen and allowed it. To believe otherwise it would mean one of the worlds best intelligence groups had the biggest failure since 9/11.  

We are all being manipulated and all the usual suspects are banging the war drum. I just hope we watch from a distance and don't get involved. 

 

I don't want the US involved. I merely want Israel to wipe them out using any means they want to use. 

[Chucktshoes]

Just now, crc4 said:

I don't want the US involved. I merely want Israel to wipe them out using any means they want to use. 

To be clear, what you’re advocating here is genocide. There are 2.2 million inhabitants of Gaza city. It is the third most densely populated place on the planet in.
 

am I understanding your position correctly?

[Defender]

4 minutes ago, crc4 said:

I don't want the US involved. I merely want Israel to wipe them out using any means they want to use. 

Agree, but I want to provide any and all aid to Israel towards this end. If we can provide untold amounts of aid to a corrupt Ukraine, we can help Israel.  Im think the Gaza strip should cease to exist as it has in the past.

[crc4]

Just now, Chucktshoes said:

To be clear, what you’re advocating here is genocide. There are 2.2 million inhabitants of Gaza city. It is the third most densely populated place on the planet in.
 

am I understanding your position correctly?

I want Israel to wipe out those terrorists. If you have a den of rattlesnakes living among you or next door, you better kill them before they kill you. And don't stop until they are dead, their bones crushed, and scattered to the four winds.

Plain enough?

[crc4]

2 minutes ago, Defender said:

Agree, but I want to provide any and all aid to Israel towards this end. If we can provide untold amounts of aid to a corrupt Ukraine, we can help Israel.  Im think the Gaza strip should cease to exist as it has in the past.

I want Israel to have aid military and civilian help. I don't want US troops on the ground. I should have stated that. Thanks.

[Chucktshoes]

3 minutes ago, crc4 said:

I want Israel to wipe out those terrorists. If you have a den of rattlesnakes living among you or next door, you better kill them before they kill you. And don't stop until they are dead, their bones crushed, and scattered to the four winds.

Plain enough?

Not really. You keep using metaphors to avoid using plain language. Gaza has a median age of 19 years old. The majority of the population are children. Are they considered snakes in that den? Are they deserving of being wiped out? So once again, I will ask my question in plain English, and would hope for an answer in plain English.
 

Am I understanding your position correctly that you are advocating for a genocide of the Palestinians?

[TGO David]

16 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

To be clear, what you’re advocating here is genocide. There are 2.2 million inhabitants of Gaza city. It is the third most densely populated place on the planet in.  am I understanding your position correctly?

How is bombing the Gaza Strip back to the stone age any different than allied forces leveling Berlin and other towns and cities in Germany during WWII?  Not all German people were Nazis any more than all Palestinians are Hamas, but the world apparently recognized the fact that eradicating cancer unfortunately comes with the pain of surgery and committed themselves to eradicating cancer.

Look... I don't want collateral damage.  I wish there were a clean way to deal with this.  I'm not seeing one.

What's your recommendation?