Israel Attacked (This will be interesting...)

[Chucktshoes]

3 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I just saw on the news that 9 Americans were killed in the attacks.

It sure would be comforting if we had some semblance of adult leadership in DC right about now.

9 dead, unknown number missing and unaccounted for. 
 

Now I’m gonna come off a bit heartless sounding here. For any Americans that have found themselves dead or captured by Hamas, they have my sympathy, but that doesn’t extend enough to risk the lives of service members or further escalations of hostilities to rescue them. 
 

When one travels abroad they need to understand that the risks involved. Sure, they went to some rave for peace or whatever, but if you are in Israel you have a significantly more than non-zero chance of getting caught up in the crossfire between Israelis and Palestinians. They rolled the dice and it came up craps. Sorry for their luck. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, crc4 said:

I feel the same way about the looting, rioting, and arson that takes place in American cities against innocent civilians under the guise of social justice.

I totally understand and support your premise.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, crc4 said:

I feel the same way about the looting, rioting, and arson that takes place in American cities against innocent civilians under the guise of social justice.

I feel the same way about the invasion of our southern border.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

9 dead, unknown number missing and unaccounted for. 
 

Now I’m gonna come off a bit heartless sounding here. For any Americans that have found themselves dead or captured by Hamas, they have my sympathy, but that doesn’t extend enough to risk the lives of service members or further escalations of hostilities to rescue them. 
 

When one travels abroad they need to understand that the risks involved. Sure, they went to some rave for peace or whatever, but if you are in Israel you have a significantly more than non-zero chance of getting caught up in the crossfire between Israelis and Palestinians. They rolled the dice and it came up craps. Sorry for their luck. 

I agree. I'd love to tour many of the historical sites in Israel. This sort of thing prevents me from doing so.

[GlockSpock]

I'm trying really, really hard to find the correlation that both looting, rioting, and arson that takes place in American cities, as well as the invasion of our southern border have to do with Israel being attacked.

Edited October 9, 2023 by GlockSpock

[crc4]

Just now, GlockSpock said:

I'm trying really, really hard to find the correlation that both looting, rioting, and arson that takes place in American cities, as well as the invasion of our southern border have to do with Israel being attacked.

It's called a logical comparison of two similar events. Infiltration, killing, looting, and arson by  criminals, and destroying private property.

If your home was invaded, your business destroyed, and your family injured or killed by invaders, why does it matter if it was Hamas in Israel or BLM in your city?

[Erik88]

4 minutes ago, crc4 said:

It's called a logical comparison of two similar events. 

No, it isn't. 

[Chucktshoes]

10 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

I'm trying really, really hard to find the correlation that both looting, rioting, and arson that takes place in American cities, as well as the invasion of our southern border have to do with Israel being attacked.

Two of them are our business. One of them ain’t.

[btq96r]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

I just saw on the news that 9 Americans were killed in the attacks.

I'm expecting more American citizens in this count before it's final.  Not only is it a beautiful time of year over there that makes tourism appealing, but I'm sure this number will count dual citizens who divide the year back and forth.

[gregintenn]

3 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Two of them are our business. One of them ain’t.

and we seem to be focused on the one that ain't.

[Chucktshoes]

Just now, gregintenn said:

and we seem to be focused on the one that ain't.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

I'm trying really, really hard to find the correlation that both looting, rioting, and arson that takes place in American cities, as well as the invasion of our southern border have to do with Israel being attacked.

The premise is simple; when you become absolutely convinced that an entity means you death, harm or to enslave you or take what’s rightfully yours, and you know it, and you have the ability to deal with the threat, it seems foolish not to. 
In short, the connection is that we should deal with border invaders and external or internal anarchists in the same way as we are encouraging Israel to deal with her cancer.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

No, it isn't. 

And yet, it absolutely is.

[btq96r]

Gents, I would hope we can discuss and share info about one of the most significant events in a generation without getting this thread locked...but at this rate we're heading for the crash.  One of the Mods will check in on their lunch break, lament about how this is why we can't have nice things, and shut it down.

[Guest]

Just now, btq96r said:

Gents, I would hope we can discuss and share info about one of the most significant events in a generation without getting this thread locked...but at this rate we're heading for the crash.  One of the Mods will check in on their lunch break, lament about how this is why we can't have nice things, and shut it down.

Well, face it, this particular thread is treading on shaky ground when it’s being moderated by a guy rooting for the terrorists and opining that if you were an American “Jew lover” that got caught up in this righteous crusade of Islam, you just flat had it coming to you. With this being almost certainly my last post before getting tossed, I wish some of you well!

[GlockSpock]

I’m trying to figure out how to pick a number to count up to.

Edited October 9, 2023 by GlockSpock

[GlockSpock]

33 minutes ago, crc4 said:

It's called a logical comparison of two similar events. Infiltration, killing, looting, and arson by  criminals, and destroying private property.

If your home was invaded, your business destroyed, and your family injured or killed by invaders, why does it matter if it was Hamas in Israel or BLM in your city?

Because one of them fits within the topic at hand, the other two don't. Not even close.

[GlockSpock]

Let me spell it out in very clear letters for those that cannot count. I just dropped two massive hints above.

[TGO David]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:00 AM, Erik88 said:

You know, I am honestly approaching the point where making people behave here is wearing thin with me.  We get dangerously close to me just telling you all to have at it and seeing if you can really survive open discourse when you pick at "the other side" with bait memes like this.

 

[gregintenn]

Not that anyone gives a chit what I think, but if there is going to be a ban on political discourse, it would need to be absolute in order to be successful. This thread is proof that even the moderators can't behave themselves.

To leave a thread like open and expecting everyone to tiptoe around it is just asking for trouble.

Edited October 9, 2023 by gregintenn

[Chucktshoes]

33 minutes ago, OMCHamlin said:

Well, face it, this particular thread is treading on shaky ground when it’s being moderated by a guy rooting for the terrorists and opining that if you were an American “Jew lover” that got caught up in this righteous crusade of Islam, you just flat had it coming to you. With this being almost certainly my last post before getting tossed, I wish some of you well!

This is a hilariously bad twisting of the things I’ve actually said combined with a supremely sillier attempt to put some things in my mouth I didn’t even come close to saying. 
 

It’s also hilarious to me how even the mildest criticism of Israel, or questioning if the US’s absolute support is actually in our best interest or not gets one labeled as an anti-Semite or worse. 
 

It’s ok though. I’m used to this tactic as I’ve been dealing with it from arguing with leftists for years on the internet. 
 

“Maybe we should deal with our logistics and energy infrastructure before we send tens of billions to Ukraine in a proxy war.”

”Why do you want Russia to win, you Putin stooge?”

 

“Maybe we should put our citizens first and secure our borders?”

”Why do you hate Mexicans, you racist?”

”I’m not sure our domestic social safety net is sustainable.”

“Why do you want old and poor people to starve you heartless SOB?”

It’s just plain funny to me. 

[papa61]

Only true friends can discuss politics and religion. Any others will fall into anger. I have my beliefs and you have yours, as long as we are civil, we can discuss anything. Respect for your fellow man should be at the top of your list of things to do every day. Yes, political policies from several nations contributed to this mess. No I don't relish or encourage war. That said, I agree with the Biblical way to wage war, kill them all and let God sort them out. THTA is why we need great leadership in great countries, because war is the very last option to protect yourself and your nation.

[papa61]

5 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

This is a hilariously bad twisting of the things I’ve actually said combined with a supremely sillier attempt to put some things in my mouth I didn’t even come close to saying. 
 

It’s also hilarious to me how even the mildest criticism of Israel, or questioning if the US’s absolute support is actually in our best interest or not gets one labeled as an anti-Semite or worse. 
 

It’s ok though. I’m used to this tactic as I’ve been dealing with it from arguing with leftists for years on the internet. 
 

“Maybe we should deal with our logistics and energy infrastructure before we send tens of billions to Ukraine in a proxy war.”

”Why do you want Russia to win, you Putin stooge?”

 

“Maybe we should put our citizens first and secure our borders?”

”Why do you hate Mexicans, you racist?”

”I’m not sure our domestic social safety net is sustainable.”

“Why do you want old and poor people to starve you heartless SOB?”

It’s just plain funny to me. 

this popped up while I was typing. Yep, hard to strike a balance between isolationisim and wide open border diplomacy. we should all be open to public discourse without demeaning opinions other than our own. THIS war is going to get nasty, no doubt. Are we contractually commited to help? are we morally obligated? is it in our best interest as a nation? these things are what we should discuss, not who's fault or what policy caused it.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

This is a hilariously bad twisting of the things I’ve actually said combined with a supremely sillier attempt to put some things in my mouth I didn’t even come close to saying. 
 

It’s also hilarious to me how even the mildest criticism of Israel, or questioning if the US’s absolute support is actually in our best interest or not gets one labeled as an anti-Semite or worse. 
 

It’s ok though. I’m used to this tactic as I’ve been dealing with it from arguing with leftists for years on the internet. 
 

“Maybe we should deal with our logistics and energy infrastructure before we send tens of billions to Ukraine in a proxy war.”

”Why do you want Russia to win, you Putin stooge?”

 

“Maybe we should put our citizens first and secure our borders?”

”Why do you hate Mexicans, you racist?”

”I’m not sure our domestic social safety net is sustainable.”

“Why do you want old and poor people to starve you heartless SOB?”

It’s just plain funny to me. 

Lot of words, lots of "Oh no I'm not, but what are YOU?", but at the end of the day, the perception is there, and I'm clearly not the only one that sees it. Remember, many of us perceive that Hamas terrorists attacked Israel, not that "Israel is finally getting what's coming to them."  So there you go.  not a good look, unless you're comfortable with it...

[papa61]

there is an old adage comparing dedicated and committed using a pig and a chicken. I believe if we lend aid we are chicken, if it is in our interest to be involved in anything we should be committed, commitment involves sacrifice.

Y'all need to think about this, we need to be a community here, discuss and learn, be united in our interests.

If Ukraine is a needed ally, we should have sent forces in to quickly secure their sovereignty, if not we should stay the hell out. Same goes for Israel or any other nation. Look at history and see what happens when we stick our nose where it does not belong and what happens when we do not protect strategically important foreign nations. How many lives would have been saved had we entered WWII earlier? What if we had stayed out of Vietnam? Weigh these things carefully.