Israel Attacked (This will be interesting...)

[MacGyver]

7 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I don’t know anything about the purple dye, but don’t get me started on micro plastics and seed oils.

damn avocado oil that all the hipsters rave about doesn't season my cast iron worth anything.

[Hozzie]

22 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

I've advocated for keeping this thread open because it is an incredibly important topic. That said, and I tried to get @crc4 to take the hint, keep it on topic.

The topic is Israel and Gaza. I don't care about people crossing the southern border to loot, riot, and kill in American cities.

 

The problem is most of us do care about that and see some correlation to those events and have brought it up as part of the discussion.   I think you are on the outside of majority opinion on this and come across as trying to stifle that discussion.   

I at least appreciate MacGyvers response even if I don't fully agree with it.   All of these "ism's" are so subjective and honestly have lost all real meaning to me as people throw them out thinking it makes them look smart.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Hozzie

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

damn avocado oil that all the hipsters rave about doesn't season my cast iron worth anything.

It’s good for frying with its high smoke point and neutral flavor. But you’re right about it not seasoning cast-iron well. That’s why I just use lard like God and grandma intended.

[GlockSpock]

2 minutes ago, Hozzie said:

The problem is most of us do care about that and see some correlation to those events and have brought it up as part of the discussion.   I think you are on the outside of majority opinion on this and come across as trying to stifle that discussion.   

I at least appreciate MacGyvers response even if I don't fully agree with it.   All of these "ism's" are so subjective and honestly have lost all real meaning to me.

Sure, absolutely. And I do care about it too. But the original topic of this event was purely Israel being attacked. Do you think that looting and rioting American cities by illegals is equivalent to Israelis, including children and younger, being slaughtered in mass quantity in theirs homes?

I'm not saying that those events previously mentioned regarding the US border aren't important, I just see it like we are sitting at the table discussing war and one participant keeps bringing up the fact that one time their cousin shot them with a slingshot and it really hurt.

That, and the fact that over the previous few years we have had an overall policy of dissuading/forbidding Non-2A political discussions. Then boom, this thread happens, we decide to let it test the waters, and certain members have used it as a catch all to chase rabbits down any political hole they've had buried up their sleeve.

[Hozzie]

4 minutes ago, GlockSpock said:

Sure, absolutely. And I do care about it too. But the original topic of this event was purely Israel being attacked. Do you think that looting and rioting American cities by illegals is equivalent to Israelis, including children and younger, being slaughtered in mass quantity in theirs homes?

I'm not saying that those events previously mentioned regarding the US border aren't important, I just see it like we are sitting at the table discussing war and one participant keeps bringing up the fact that one time their cousin shot them with a slingshot and it really hurt.

That, and the fact that over the previous few years we have had an overall policy of dissuading/forbidding Non-2A political discussions. Then boom, this thread happens, we decide to let it test the waters, and certain members have used it as a catch all to chase rabbits down any political hole they've had buried up their sleeve.

For me there is a correlation of of potential impact.   I don't think anyone was specifically saying they are equal at this point in time.   Things like this are always going to come back to making correlations to things at 'home" where it is most important to almost all of us.   Trying to limit things to only a narrow focus is never going to happen IMO in topics with such broad impact in the world.

[Grayfox54]

I'm glad this thread is still open. This is a major world event and needs to be talked about. Several other forums I visit shut down this topic pretty quick after it came up. Although I would prefer we stick to the topic at hand and quit wandering all over the place. 

Honestly, I'd like to see the old Politics Forum come back. It gave folks like me a place to discuss these things without having to resort to the craziness of ultra-liberal social media. 

As for that other guy, I saw what he was a long time ago.  I, too, am surprised it took so long. 

 

[gregintenn]

9 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm glad this thread is still open. This is a major world event and needs to be talked about. Several other forums I visit shut down this topic pretty quick after it came up. Although I would prefer we stick to the topic at hand and quit wandering all over the place. 

Honestly, I'd like to see the old Politics Forum come back. It gave folks like me a place to discuss these things without having to resort to the craziness of ultra-liberal social media. 

As for that other guy, I saw what he was a long time ago.  I, too, am surprised it took so long. 

 

I loved the politics forum. I can say that because I am not a moderator.

[gregintenn]

3 hours ago, Erik88 said:

It unfortunately does. 

 

He made some pretty compelling points. His delivery could use some polishing, however.

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I loved the politics forum. I can say that because I am not a moderator.

Mannnnnnn….

I loved it too. Then I didn’t. Weirdly enough I think that transition happened around the time I become a moderator.

[deerslayer]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

@MacGyver, do you want to make any further statement about the recent banning?  I thought it was pretty clear where the gentleman went over the line with constant racist / xenophobic statements and you seemed to address that in your previous post before he was banned, but maybe I'm just assuming too much.

 

Maybe I missed something or a comment was removed, but MacGyver’s post seemed to be directed at a different member (not the guy who got banned). 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TGO David said:

This is exactly why I have chosen, to this point, to leave this conversation open.  I saw your private message urging me to close it down.  You either want full-on moderation and suppression of thought and opinion, or you don't.  We've tried walking the balance between the two and so far it's been a ####show.

 

Well, I  started this thread in a tone that I thought stayed between the lines, but I admit I am of mixed feelings about this thread and the angry rhetoric vs. the value of discussion on something of this import. I believe I said that it wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see it closed but at the same time, you would have seen 5 others, maybe titled differently but on the same topic spring up in it’s place. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by OMCHamlin

[Omega]

1 hour ago, GlockSpock said:

I've advocated for keeping this thread open because it is an incredibly important topic. That said, and I tried to get @crc4 to take the hint, keep it on topic.

The topic is Israel and Gaza. I don't care about people crossing the southern border to loot, riot, and kill in American cities.

Most of us here are adults. We should be able to disagree all day with each other. For all I care, if @Chucktshoes wants to post about how the purple die in Crayola markers is turning your kids into hippopotamuses, just know he can do that. Disagree with each other all you want but keep it respectful.

 

So what I am hearing is that thread drift is ultimately why he got banned? 

You may not want to hear it, but it is a clear and present danger to have an open border, and attacks like what happened in Israel, who has a much more guarded border should make us all want to discuss our own border, not shy away from it.  If 1500 terrorists can do that, over a long holiday, imagine what thousands of them could do here.  Thousands upon thousands of military aged men have been dispersed all across the US, and many from countries not bordering ours.  If this attack is not a wake up call to our own government, whose primary responsibility is our countries security, then I can only surmise that they want it to happen.

[MacGyver]

1 minute ago, Omega said:

So what I am hearing is that thread drift is ultimately why he got banned? 

You may not want to hear it, but it is a clear and present danger to have an open border, and attacks like what happened in Israel, who has a much more guarded border should make us all want to discuss our own border, not shy away from it.  If 1500 terrorists can do that, over a long holiday, imagine what thousands of them could do here.  Thousands upon thousands of military aged men have been dispersed all across the US, and many from countries not bordering ours.  If this attack is not a wake up call to our own government, whose primary responsibility is our countries security, then I can only surmise that they want it to happen.

There are giant differences between our southern border and the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip.  There's not much similarity other than - it's a border.

Look, it's a low bar to look at what Hamas has done and condemn it. It's evil - and will likely not exist after the coming conflict.  It also doesn't take a lot to look at the conditions just over 2 million people live in and say "I totally disagree with this - but I can see the path to how we got here." You can only be kept in what's essentially an open air prison for so long before some portion of the population is going to resort to violence.

Multiple things can be true at once, I guess.

But it's just not apples to apples with our southern border.  

 

[Omega]

2 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

There are giant differences between our southern border and the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip.  There's not much similarity other than - it's a border.

Look, it's a low bar to look at what Hamas has done and condemn it. It's evil - and will likely not exist after the coming conflict.  It also doesn't take a lot to look at the conditions just over 2 million people live in and say "I totally disagree with this - but I can see the path to how we got here." You can only be kept in what's essentially an open air prison for so long before some portion of the population is going to resort to violence.

Multiple things can be true at once, I guess.

But it's just not apples to apples with our southern border.  

 

Well, as has been said, I'll agree to disagree.  We are being invaded, and some of these invaders have that same mentality you speak of.  Sure, many at first just wanted better living conditions (who doesn't), and wanted to work, but now we have people coming from all parts of the world through our southern border, with no vetting whatsoever, and those with a 9/11 mentality could very well be some of them.

[Grayfox54]

Respectfully, there are many issues with our southern border. But this thread is about Israel and the sudden war thrust upon them. Our border is a topic for another discussion. Maybe if the Politics forum comes back, we can discuss it there. 

[Omega]

2 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Respectfully, there are many issues with our southern border. But this thread is about Israel and the sudden war thrust upon them. Our border is a topic for another discussion. Maybe if the Politics forum comes back, we can discuss it there. 

In that case Gaza needs to be a parking lot.

[Grayfox54]

2 minutes ago, Omega said:

In that case Gaza needs to be a parking lot.

I won't argue with you on that point. 

[Defender]

6 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Respectfully, there are many issues with our southern border. But this thread is about Israel and the sudden war thrust upon them. Our border is a topic for another discussion. Maybe if the Politics forum comes back, we can discuss it there. 

The similarity is that there is a question if hamas or similar terrorists are coming in through our southern border.

[Grayfox54]

Again, a valid point. But a subject for a different discussion. 

[Omega]

2 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Again, a valid point. But a subject for a different discussion. 

But here is the rub, we are to discuss terrorists without discussing what can happen here?  It's like trying to discuss a kaboom at a local range without being able to discuss it happening elsewhere.

[TennesseeCamper]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

damn avocado oil that all the hipsters rave about doesn't season my cast iron worth anything.

I am sorry a I can’t help but comment on this I know it’s thread drift or whatever. 
I just stripped an old lodge Dutch oven and a grill pan with oven cleaner. Reseasoned  in the oven with coconut oil.  Don’t know yet how it will do but sure did stink during the seasoning. 
My mom always used crisco to season and maintain her cast iron.  I am sure she knew best. 
“thread drift off” …

[Chucktshoes]

33 minutes ago, Omega said:

But here is the rub, we are to discuss terrorists without discussing what can happen here?  It's like trying to discuss a kaboom at a local range without being able to discuss it happening elsewhere.

I think the issue is that we were attempting to keep the thread narrowly tailored to prevent it from blowing up into a wildly out of control thread. I am not sure we really succeeded, but we try. 

 

The tension between the general tamping down on politics with the occasional big topic having space made for it leads to an imperfect and uneven balancing act. 

 

I would like to speak for myself alone for a moment. I really appreciate the input from all of y’all regarding your thoughts and criticisms on how the moderation is handled with regards to politics. It’s taken seriously and informs the decisions made here.

 

[partypilot1]

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2023/10/report-hamas-calls-for-global-jihad-invasion-of-israel-attack-jews-worldwide-on-oct-13/
 

That didn’t take long…

[krunchnik]

We are being dragged into a holy war whether we like it or not-

Look at the way some of these idiots in our own country act-

Almost like they hate our very own-

[Chucktshoes]

Merged related thread.