Digital Dollar

[bersaguy]

Is anyone here concerned about this new digital dollar banking system the Feds are working on ?

[Defender]

I am a little.  But then, I pay almost all my bills electroniccally, my paychecks are deposited electronically, and I send money to my kids via Venmo, Cashapp and Paypal, lol.

[MacGyver]

This isn’t necessarily going to be a comforting answer - but for all intents and purposes - your dollar is already essentially digital in every way that matters.

And, for everything anyone in this thread might be worried about - the Fed doesn’t need any new currencies to do any of that.

But, on the flip side - I’m not the least bit worried about it.

Why?

For anyone who’s reading this, the dollar has been the global reserve currency for your more or less your entire life.  While we don’t typically go through this exercise on a daily basis - the average American consumer actually benefits from this. A lot actually.

There are a lot of countries (the BRICS countries specifically - but some others too) that would love to see that unlinked. This is the kind of thing wars are fought over.  The system we have in place right now came into being towards the end of the last really big one.

China is working on a digital currency. Their end goal is to replace the dollar.  We’re absolutely going to do everything in our power to counter this - including developing our own digital currency.

FWIW, when you see a story that’s trying to get you all spooled up about digital currency - and specifically trying to handicap that development - I’d encourage you to ask yourself what the teller’s end goal is.  You don’t necessarily have to root for China to root against America - but the outcomes sure look similar. 

[Darrell]

YES! I am very concerned about it. Though I do most of my bill-paying and make most of my purchases digitally, I still want to be able to use cash to buy certain items without fear of Big Brother knowing what I have. If the country were to go to full digital currency, then you and I would be entirely unable to buy a shovel or a hammer, for example, without Uncle Sugar knowing what we bought.  I also worry that it would be really easy for someone to decide that I, a retired fellow, only need x number of gallons of gas a month, and simply deny a fuel purchase that I don't "need". Or perhaps someone might decide that I only need to shoot a certain number of rounds a month. 

I know that's a little bit foil-hat, but I still worry about it. Give government means to power, and it will exploit those means.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Darrell

[AuEagle]

It's all about control, they control your money, they control you...

[Grayfox54]

The simple fact is that the vast majority of money in this world doesn't actually physically exist. Its nothing more than 1s & 0s in a computer somewhere.  Think about that for a minute. One major computer crash could wipe out millions. 

My pension and SS are direct deposit. I wasn't given a choice. That's the only way I could get it. They quit mailing out monthly checks a long time ago. 

I don't make automatic payments for anything either. I'm old fashioned, I write and mail out checks to pay my bills each month. Crazy? Behind the times? Maybe. But nobody has access to my bank account but me and the bank itself. I prefer it that way.

I have one credit card which is used primarily for internet purchases. I pay off the balance at the end of each month. 

 I also pay cash for my purchases whenever possible. I stay in complete control of my money as much as is possible these days.  

[Sleep profit]

Very concerned I pay cash for almost everything 

[10-Ring]

Not concerned for the same reason that I don't watch news or sports, there isn't a damn thing I can do about it to change the outcome. 

[Garufa]

“Money” is nothing but a concept.  A social contract between people in agreement that it has some value.  In this day and age there is absolutely nothing to back up that value other than a theory  in wide spread practice.

For those worried about the man keeping track of your monies, well they already do.  They can also seize or freeze it at anytime.

Paying cash for everything ain’t gonna get around that.  

 

[ArmyBrat61]

Precious metals are the way to go....gold, silver, lead and brass..... "money" is just paper backed up by faith in the issuing institution. Don't believe me? How much was Confederate money worth in June 1865? How much was that Confederate gold, recently found in Kentucky, worth?  Power and control is what it is all about yet only God Himself has those. Just my .02 

[No_0ne]

It's kind of ironic that we're having a discussion about the relative merits of digital currencies on an internet forum ...

[Garufa]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:28 PM, ArmyBrat61 said:

Precious metals are the way to go....gold, silver, lead and brass..... "money" is just paper backed up by faith in the issuing institution. Don't believe me? How much was Confederate money worth in June 1865? How much was that Confederate gold, recently found in Kentucky, worth?  Power and control is what it is all about yet only God Himself has those. Just my .02 

Precious metals are backed on the same theory of value as paper dollars.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Garufa
Spelling

[BigK]

4 hours ago, Darrell said:

YES! I am very concerned about it. Though I do most of my bill-paying and make most of my purchases digitally, I still want to be able to use cash to buy certain items without fear of Big Brother knowing what I have. If the country were to go to full digital currency, then you and I would be entirely unable to buy a shovel or a hammer, for example, without Uncle Sugar knowing what we bought.  I also worry that it would be really easy for someone to decide that I, a retired fellow, only need x number of gallons of gas a month, and simply deny a fuel purchase that I don't "need". Or perhaps someone might decide that I only need to shoot a certain number of rounds a month. 

I know that's a little bit foil-hat, but I still worry about it. Give government means to power, and it will exploit those means.

I don't trust anyone who trusts the gov't. It shows bad judgement, IMO. I think your concerns are valid and VERY likely. Nobody bothers to track your purchases unless they intend to use that information for nefarious purposes.  I think rationing is a logical conclusion, as is measuring support for initiatives they intend to support or oppose.

[monkeylizard]

never mind

Edited September 29, 2023 by monkeylizard

[AuEagle]

2 hours ago, ArmyBrat61 said:

Precious metals are the way to go....gold, silver, lead and brass..... "money" is just paper backed up by faith in the issuing institution. Don't believe me? How much was Confederate money worth in June 1865? How much was that Confederate gold, recently found in Kentucky, worth?  Power and control is what it is all about yet only God Himself has those. Just my .02 

In 1933 Gold was priced at $20.00 per Oz.

Dollar was 1/20th of an Oz of Gold.

Today's spot Price of Gold is $1863 FRN's per Oz.

1 FRN=1/1863rd of an Oz.

Gold has held it's value while paper has lost almost it's buying power.

I'll take Gold. Gold is & has always been money.

Gold is the money of Kings

Silver is the money of Gentlemen

Barter is the money of peasants

Debt is the money of slaves

Gold is money, everything else is credit. J.P.Morgan

USA is over 33 Trillion FRN's in debt...

 

 

 

[No_0ne]

48 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

In 1933 Gold was priced at $20.00 per Oz.

This is, of course, true.  However, at that time the price of gold was also set by government fiat, due to the declared rates for convertibility of gold to dollars.  It's also true that 1933 was the year that ownership of gold by private citizens (other than exceptions for small amounts of jewelry, and some collectible coins) was outlawed in the US.  Outstanding gold coins, gold bullion, as well as gold certificates and notes were required to be surrendered to the Treasury and replaced by dollar notes.  US citizens were also forbidden to trade in gold elsewhere in the world.  In 1934 the federal government repriced gold to $35/oz, partly to better reflect the real market value of the metal, but mostly to allow the Fed to increase the M1 money supply as a means to halt the devastating deflation resulting from the Depression.  As such, I'm not sure that using the artificially derived price of gold in 1933 really bolsters your argument ...

[A.J. Holst]

My only concern is with digital currency, private sales between individuals no longer exist.

Not just firearms, but anything I own and want to sell or wish to purchase from you.

Will .gov then have the ability to levy sales tax?

How about an additional.gov assessed "transaction fee" on top of what the pay platform charges?

[tacops]

Food City won't take gold for my groceries.

[AuEagle]

8 hours ago, No_0ne said:

This is, of course, true.  However, at that time the price of gold was also set by government fiat, due to the declared rates for convertibility of gold to dollars.  It's also true that 1933 was the year that ownership of gold by private citizens (other than exceptions for small amounts of jewelry, and some collectible coins) was outlawed in the US.  Outstanding gold coins, gold bullion, as well as gold certificates and notes were required to be surrendered to the Treasury and replaced by dollar notes.  US citizens were also forbidden to trade in gold elsewhere in the world.  In 1934 the federal government repriced gold to $35/oz, partly to better reflect the real market value of the metal, but mostly to allow the Fed to increase the M1 money supply as a means to halt the devastating deflation resulting from the Depression.  As such, I'm not sure that using the artificially derived price of gold in 1933 really bolsters your argument ...

It was so considerate of the thief fdr to confiscate private property (Gold) & value it at $20. Then, the thieves revalued it at $35 as you pointed out, real nice of the .g0v to steal then revalue...

There's no argument on my part, just stating fact.

BTW, the .g0v's official valuation of Gold today is around $42.00 LOL

[AuEagle]

44 minutes ago, tacops said:

Food City won't take gold for my groceries.

Of course not, they take currency.

[AuEagle]

2 hours ago, A.J. Holst said:

My only concern is with digital currency, private sales between individuals no longer exist.

Not just firearms, but anything I own and want to sell or wish to purchase from you.

Will .gov then have the ability to levy sales tax?

How about an additional.gov assessed "transaction fee" on top of what the pay platform charges?

All great points A.J.

When do they decide who can buy or sell?

[willki]

My concerns about digital currency....

• they don't have to pass a law to enact gun control they simply refuse to approve gun or ammo purchases.  Much easier for them.
• they can easily ration how much gas, oil, toilet paper, ...whatever that you are permitted to buy each day, week, or month.
• they can easily add a % of purchase tax to each and every transaction.  We all know that tax will start low and get larger and larger every few years.
• they can much more easily spy on you through your purchases.  If they suspect Joe of whatever, now anyone that had lunch with Joe is also a suspect.
• they can just erase your ability to exist in society.  If you protest a bill that they want passed, then suddenly your bank accounts are frozen.  If you wear the wrong campaign button, hat, T-Shirt, they your accounts are frozen.
• your purchase history will never stay secure because the only thing the government is actually good at is consistent incompetence.  
  • So, now Apple, Google, Amazon and Facebook can also decide that they don't want you as a customer or a user if you bought guns or ammo in the last 90 days.  All your accounts could be suspended or under review.
  • Good luck getting a job / contract / vendor slot at a place that adheres to the latest political BS because they may decide not to hire anyone that has bought guns or ammo in the last year.

Without digital currency being cancelled is embarrassing and inconvenient.  With digital currency being cancelled means your family has no roof over their head and no food to eat.

[AuEagle]

2 minutes ago, willki said:

My concerns about digital currency....

• they don't have to pass a law to enact gun control they simply refuse to approve gun or ammo purchases.  Much easier for them.
• they can easily ration how much gas, oil, toilet paper, ...whatever that you are permitted to buy each day, week, or month.
• they can easily add a % of purchase tax to each and every transaction.  We all know that tax will start low and get larger and larger every few years.
• they can much more easily spy on you through your purchases.  If they suspect Joe of whatever, now anyone that had lunch with Joe is also a suspect.
• they can just erase your ability to exist in society.  If you protest a bill that they want passed, then suddenly your bank accounts are frozen.  If you wear the wrong campaign button, hat, T-Shirt, they your accounts are frozen.
• your purchase history will never stay secure because the only thing the government is actually good at is consistent incompetence.  
  • So, now Apple, Google, Amazon and Facebook can also decide that they don't want you as a customer or a user if you bought guns or ammo in the last 90 days.  All your accounts could be suspended or under review.
  • Good luck getting a job / contract / vendor slot at a place that adheres to the latest political BS because they may decide not to hire anyone that has bought guns or ammo in the last year.

Without digital currency being cancelled is embarrassing and inconvenient.  With digital currency being cancelled means your family has no roof over their head and no food to eat.

See post #5 above.

[willki]

5 minutes ago, AuEagle said:

See post #5 above.

I agree, but thought a little more detail might be helpful for the discussion.

[BigK]

Imagine the .gov levying a progressive fine based on your ESG raging. Ask them to close the border: 1% fine from your savings account, egregious violation (like posting somewhere that you think global warming is a hoax): 10% of your net worth, misgendering the 6'3" linebacker in a pink shirt: 20% of your 401(k).