Confused about legal carry at church daycare

[BigK]

The title basically sums up my question. My church got licensed to start a daycare. On Wednesdays it's possible the daycare may still be open when church members start showing up for service. So, someone could possibly carrying concealed in another part of the property while the daycare is open. 

Some things I've read says the church could lose their license if they allow firearms anywhere on the property at any time. That seems to mean that the church can't allow members to be armed on the premises at any time, even on Sundays when the daycare is closed.

I'm having a hard time telling the difference between how Lee's anti-gun bureaucrats are interpreting the law vs what the law for daycares actually says. Apparently, daycares operate under DHS and most of the laws Lee's cronies are citing only apply to schools which operate under DOE.

Does anyone know the actual law I'm looking for? I don't want to cost my church their daycare license, but I also refuse to give up my rights.

 

[10-Ring]

There's some rather complicated reading under TCA 39-17-1309. Unfortunately, I think that the short answer is that you are not legal to carry in this scenario. I hope that I am wrong and someone can find information otherwise.

 

49-6-815. People permitted to possess and carry a firearm on school grounds.

(a) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1309 or any other provision of title 39, chapter 17, part 13 to the contrary, the following people are permitted to possess and carry a firearm on the grounds of the school at which they are assigned:

(1) A person employed by an LEA as a faculty or staff member at a school within the LEA; or

(2) A person assigned to a school in accordance with a memorandum of understanding between the chief of the appropriate law enforcement agency and the LEA.

(b) In order to possess and carry a firearm on the grounds of the school pursuant to subsection (a), the person must:

(1) Be authorized to possess and carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1351;

(2) Have the joint written authorization of the director of schools in conjunction with the principal of the school to carry or possess a firearm on school property; and

(3) Be a law enforcement officer, or have prior service as a law enforcement officer, as defined in § 39-11-106, and be in compliance with all laws, rules and regulations of the peace officer standards and training (POST) commission, and have successfully completed forty (40) hours in basic training in school policing as required by § 49-6-4217. Any such training shall be approved by the LEA and the cost of the training, firearm and ammunition shall be at the expense of the person seeking authorization and not the LEA.

(c)

(1) Within ten (10) days after the director of schools has authorized a person to carry or possess a firearm on school property pursuant to subdivision (a)(1) or (a)(2), the director shall notify the chief of the appropriate law enforcement agency of each such authorization.

(2) The notification pursuant to this subsection (c) shall contain basic information about each such person including name, address, contact information and whether the person is authorized under subdivision (a)(1) or (a)(2).

(d) The joint written authorization of the director of schools and the principal of the school given pursuant to subdivision (b)(2), the notification transmitted to the chief of the appropriate law enforcement agency pursuant to subdivision (c)(1), the names and contact information of any person authorized to carry or possess a firearm on school property pursuant to subdivision (c)(2), any listing or compilation of names or individual names of persons who are authorized to carry or possess a firearm on school property, whether the director of schools and the principal of the school have or have not issued joint written authorization to carry or possess a firearm on school property, or any other document, file, record, information or material relating to the carrying or possessing of a firearm on school property pursuant to this section that is received by, transmitted to, maintained, stored or compiled by the director of schools, the principal of the school, any LEA, or city, county or municipal law enforcement agency, shall be confidential and not open for public inspection.

(e) Nothing in § 49-3-315 shall be construed to require an LEA or a law enforcement agency of the county to assign or provide funding for a school resource officer as defined in § 49-6-4202 to any city school system within that county on the basis of the WFTEADA as defined by § 49-3-302. The providing of security or school resource officers by a sheriff shall be considered a law enforcement function and not a school operation or maintenance purpose that requires the apportionment of funds pursuant to § 49-3-315.

[peejman]

Is it a 5 day/week normal daycare or is it less than that?  I ask because our church has a pre-school on site.  But since it only meets 4 days/week, it's technically not classified as a "school" and so the school gun laws do not apply. 

[10-Ring]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

Is it a 5 day/week normal daycare or is it less than that?  I ask because our church has a pre-school on site.  But since it only meets 4 days/week, it's technically not classified as a "school" and so the school gun laws do not apply. 

May be worth mentioning as I refreshed myself on 37-19-13xx and 49-6-xxx last night the wording often used will be "elementary", "secondary", and "institutions of higher education" but did not specially address pre -schools. 

[monkeylizard]

I seem to recall a recent thread on the same topic. I thought it was more than 30 days ago, but it could have been caught up in the server crash lost data.

There's an AG opinion that it's a school when school is happening and it's a church when church is happening. And if the school section is isolated from the rest of the church, the two can operate simultaneously and independently.

https://www.chattanoogan.com/2015/9/23/308962/Attorney-General-Says-Guns-Not-Allowed.aspx

[chances R]

Private schools can also establish their own policies.  Public and private schools are school property at all times...in session or not. 

[Alleycat72]

Simple.....Your church puts up a sign that says you can't carry a wepon on the property .

[JonDaniels]

Are daycares considered schools?   I would have thought that "daycare" would not even be considered a school.  A Christian school would probably be a whole other deal.

[BigK]

On 10/4/2023 at 12:51 AM, JonDaniels said:

Are daycares considered schools?   I would have thought that "daycare" would not even be considered a school.  A Christian school would probably be a whole other deal.

I thought this was the crux of the argument too. My church does not operate a school. Our daycare is not a preschool/pre-K, just childcare, so I hoped it was exempt.

[FrankD]

so similar concept.

our church is currently meeting in the elementary school gym on Sunday, it is my understanding I cannot carry there as it is still a school.

Later this year we will be transitioning to our new church which will also have a private school on site, I was hoping that since it will be a private school I would be able to carry to church on Sunday but reading this makes me think otherwise?

[BigK]

3 hours ago, FrankD said:

so similar concept.

our church is currently meeting in the elementary school gym on Sunday, it is my understanding I cannot carry there as it is still a school.

Later this year we will be transitioning to our new church which will also have a private school on site, I was hoping that since it will be a private school I would be able to carry to church on Sunday but reading this makes me think otherwise?

I'm surprised, but in a very good way that your church is allowed to meet on school property. I'm glad that was an option for you. I think you're right about not carrying in the school gym. I also get your apprehension about the ability to carry your new church because of the school on site.

Despite all the input I've gotten and the reading I've done, I've seen nothing that makes me feel 100% confident about carrying at church if there's a daycare or a school.

[Thearmededucator]

I’m late to the party, but thought I’d chime in for posterity. The definition of school in the state refers to public schools and state owned universities. As mentioned above, private locations such as preschools have the leeway to set forth their own policies. 
 

However, any location used as a school retains is prohibited status regardless of the presence of students. This includes offsite storage of athletic equipment in the summer. 
 

Additionally, any normally permissive location where school activities are taking place (such as a field trip) immediately becomes a prohibited location for the duration of the visit.