Lookin for a 7.62x39 Bolt Gun - Options (?)

[GS455]

Okay, not a precision caliber BUT I’ve really been digging my PUSnipers and RPR in .308 this last year.  Seems my semi autos rarely make it to the range anymore.  I do have some x39 projects in the works but thinking about all the corrosive x39 I have squirreled away and I just never use it anymore b/c I don’t want to HAVE to clean up after all-day at the range +  an hour in each direction.  Corrosive through a bolt gun is only a few minutes to swab the bore/bolt/action after unpacking   

I kick myself for not grabbing a CZ527 back in the day but alas I’m finally getting around to scratching this itch.  Doesn’t seem like there’s much out there.  So far I’ve found:

CZ527 :  Do I start the search for a used one?  Can mags be found ?  Not nuts about a single stack 5rd mag so would probably want several backups (not cheap).  I’ve read scoe fitment can be a bitch.  And what’s with that rear site? Looks like these things are going for about a grand if you can find em.

CZ600 Trail: Not terribly interested in the stock config.  Loose ?  Tight?   Perhaps a bit too tacti-cool for my tastes, although, I REALLY do like the idea of the adjustable two-stage trigger.  Wonder if it could retro into the other models (prob not).  Plus it declares as a 2MOA gun (?).

CZ600 Alpha:  Price is better.  Better accuracy.  I’ll probably hate the plasticky stock.  Don’t need irons for what I’ll be doing and the integrated rails seem nice.  Still only 5rd single stack.  Suppressor one day?

Ruger American Ranch:  The stock alone is literally almost a deal breaker for me.  What were they thinking?  That thing is as hideous as Avacado colored appliances from the 70s.  Aftermarket options (more money)?  I really like that there are more mag options although Ruger mags are spendy.  Website doesn’t specify single or dual stage trigger although is adjustable.  Looks like a cheek riser will be a need.

Howa Oryx by MDT:  Very interesting.  Never heard of this company (I’m mainly a milsurp collector),although, this could sit nicely next to my RPR.  Adjustable “everything” outta the box.  Scope mounting options are not clear on their website.  Is 20” too long for x39? I thought 16-18” was about it for max length.  No info about spare mags and what they cost

Thoughts ?  Ideas?  Experiences?

[InertOrd13]

I would do the ruger american ranch and spring for a better stock. Every ranch rifle I have used has worked great. The CZ600 trail lookes interesting and would make some sense as being able to store in a smaller package but those style of stocks have never been sturdy to me.

[Skyhunter]

I've been enjoying my CZ-527 for the past 10 years, so I'm a bit prejudiced in that direction, but I also have an SKS that works as a reasonable "truck gun". My CZ is just too darn nice to bounce around in my truck! LOL!

I've read several favorable accounts regarding the "new & improved" CZ's, but the stocks leave me cold! Sorry, but I'm old and really like (accustomed to?) walnut and blued steel or maybe stainless and a laminate. A good friend of mine bought a used Howa in '39 a couple years ago for his Dad and they have both been very happy with it. 

If I needed (wanted?) a bolt gun in 7.62/39 in today's market, I'd probably opt for the Ruger American Ranch rifle and if I couldn't warm up to the synthetic stock, I'd replace it. After buying the Ruger, I'd be sure to be saving up for either the CZ or the Howa - just in case you stumble onto one or the other.

Good luck in your quest and be sure to let us know what you decide.

 

WYT-P
Skyhunter

[GS455]

I've made this post on several of my favorite forums.  Tons of great feedback and info (thanks all).  I'm leaning towards a Howa or a Ruger I think (very little commentary on the new CZs). Both probably going into a match type or chosen stock whether wood, laminate or poly.  Howa has a broad variety of stock options but, as noted, can also just purchase a barreled action (for less $) and toss it in a stock of my choosing.

 

I do have a lead on a used 527 but when I have some time in town I'm going to see if any of the major gun retailers carry any of these new models. I'd love to feel the actions and triggers. Surprisingly kind of strange for me because with a closet and safe full of 20th century Milsurps I've rarely ever bought brand new firearms at retail. Not over a counter anyway.

Edited August 15, 2023 by GS455

[TSG]

You could pick up a 20" threaded heavy barrel Howa mini action in 7.62x39 for about $450 and put it in a Boyds stock. Since you planned on replacing the stock anyway it isn't more than a Ruger and from what I've heard the Howa is a bit nicer.

Ruger does have better mag availability and capacity and is a great rifle in its own right though.

With the CZ 527 out of production the already expensive mags will likely just get harder to find and more expensive. It's hard to recommend what's almost becoming a modern collector's piece for frequent use and corrosive ammo.

[Amax50robar]

I have both a Howa 1500 and a Ruger in 7.62x39.

The Howa is much more refined in fit and finish and is basically a Remington 700 mini action  Howa 5rd mags are hard to find - they seem to come out in batches. But, how many are really needed for a bolt-action?  MDT makes 10rd mags and are readily available from their website, but are expensive ($120).  My Howa also has 1/2x28 threads which are not common for 30 caliber muzzle devices.  I found an AAC 51t flashhider I like.  I also like the olive drab sporter stock it came with.

The Ruger takes mini-30 mags which are readily available.  Ruger 10rd mini-30 mags may have issues (check online reviews) - stick with 5rd or 20rd mags.  It has 5/8x24 threads which are very common for 30 caliber.  There is a last round bolt hold open feature when a mag remains inserted which I don’t care for.

Hope that helps.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Amax50robar
Correction

[GS455]

So I finally pulled the trigger (pun intended) for an RAR. $429 + $19 shipping and didn’t get charged sales tax.

https://www.familyfirearms.com/prod....62x39mm-flat-dark-earth-16976#product_detail

I made this post on several of the forums I frequent. Scrubbed through them all, adding up the number of recommendations/feedback on the three primary models I’ve been considering. I really wanted to go with the HOWA (i.e. longer barrel, etc) but the assets of Ruger RAR overtake it (for me). Magazines were a biggie. I’d be glad to detail. No doubt plenty will be telling me my rationalizations are wrong and why. And that’s fine. Opens up debate and public learning for others to observe and make up their own mind. Not unlike the old arguments about “having” to clean up after a day shooting corrosive is no a big deal. I’ll run it to the range as outta the box first but 90% sure I’ll be going with a chassis of some kind.

Picking up tomorrow and getting stock version to the range the next day or two for trial.
 

 

[Frog4aday]

None of the choices you listed would have been wrong & it sounds like you weighed the input and picked the rifle that was most right for you, which is what matters.

The Ruger American Rifles have a reputation for accuracy & the aftermarket parts availability just keeps growing for these guns, so that's a plus.

Curious to hear how you feel about once you get hands on and have a chance to use it.

[GS455]

RAR in 762x39 - First day out, First impressions.

I put a Nikon P-300 BLK 2-7x32 BDC Scope with SuperSub reticle for trial.  It’s mounted via ARMS 22 (low) throw rings (love these things)   Have previously used this on an SKS-D but been on the shelf for years.  The BDC reticle is for 300BLK ballistics and should more or less match 7.62x39, HOWEVER, I probably should have read up on the BDC aspects of this reticle.  I zeroed at 100yds and easily hit my marks at 100 and 200 (at 1st hash mark down) but couldn’t hit a thing at or beyond 300yds.  I’ve since read up and this reticle is meant to be zeroed at 200.  But this is another matter.

ACCURACY
Thus far I have NO complaints about accuracy and expect I can do better.  I grabbed some Barnaul FMJ as well as some Republic for the day.  I’m guessing the latter is the same Vympel marketed as Golden Tiger (looks identical).  They performed identically as far as I could tell.  There was virtually no distinction between the two regarding POI and group size.    I didn’t measure but I estimate all these groups mainly to be under 2” @ 100yds.  It will be interesting to see how the old corrosive milsurps performs (later).

http://

TRIGGER
I don’t know why but I was under the impression the RAR had a two-stage trigger –no.  Out of the box the trigger was unpleasant @  5lb, 6oz with a gritty creep just before break. I ran the adjustment screw in/out a few times playing at several adjustment points and got it down to 3lb,10z but no better. Nice clean break but still a slight grit before the break.   

ERGO
It’s a light handy rifle with moderate recoil and while the stock is really as cheesy as others have reported the form-factor / pistol grip is quite fine for my hand.  Wood in the same format would be nicer. I may or may not think about that later.  Frankly, I’m on the fence about even keeping this or perhaps contacting Ruger about the following.  I believe I mentioned I do have an RPR in .308.  That rifle’s action, while not exceptional, is very satisfactory/good.  Beyond this I have little to no experience with new, production rifles.  I mainly collect and shoot 20th century milsurps. After firing the RPR I can easily flip up the bolt handle with a couple fingers to cycle the next round with my eye barely leaving the scope’s site picture.  One of my PU Snipers is as nice and perhaps smoother (depending on ammo)

ACTION
The action is miserable!!!  Rough, chalky, dry feel with many bumps and obstacles to get the bolt forward and gturned to fire. A MAJOR effort to unbolt, draw back and cycle between rounds.  I literally have to take my left hand and hold the buttstock to cycle the action.  Much rough + kludge to force the bolt across the magazine and feed in the next round. The magazine drops easily when empty but I can sometimes, unintentionally force the bolt past the BHO follower feature.  Seating the magazine up takes a bit of force and I’m not always sure it’s seated because, either way, it seats loosely.  Several times I cycled nothing into the chamber realizing I needed to slam the magazine up into locked position.  Again it’s always loose.

CONCLUSION
In the end I could live with the ergonomics and trigger.  Shoots well, in fact, GREAT grouping for 7.62x39.  I would think about investing in a better stock/chassis and perhaps alternate scope selection, but I’m not sure I can get past the action as is.   It’s really awful.  Cheap, crappy feel, like a toy!  I know it’s not a top tier match gun but I find the RPR to be a pretty decent value for $1,200.  Again, I have little experience with new, outta-the-box firearms.  Was I expecting too much for a $450 bolt gun? Very unpleasant operating this thing.  Someone mentioned cycling a thousand times by hand to smooth out.  Not sure I’m up for that.  Should I be?  Any word on how to deal with this action?   I’m all ears.

 

[GS455]

To be clear, I understand some lapping compound or JB Bore paste applied to the bolt lugs and worked over and over should accelerate aging/break-in/smoothing of that function of the action (turn and unturn of the bolt). And I’ll try that.  Still, pushing/dragging it across a loaded magazine is a clunky chore.

If I fall in love with this thing I may try trigger springs or even drop in a Timney.  I understand it is supposed to be 2-stage, however, their product description page does not say.

https://timneytriggers.com/replacement-trigger-for-the-ruger-american-centerfire/

 

[GS455]

So far I worked the bolt and lugs slathered in bore paste for what must have been hundreds of times.  Without magazine installed it does indeed seem improved, however, mag loaded wi snap-caps it still and awful action. pushing and pulling the bolt.  Turning bolt down and up with mag installed it still quite difficult.  I was wondering/thinking with the action in a chassis allowing for AR version Duramags or similar it could be better but that's a pretty expensive rabbit hole to run down as a test.  Anyone have any other ideas?  It just NOT a pleasant experience cycling.  In fact I'm pretty perturbed at how awful it is.

[TSG]

Hmm. I've heard the mags can be loose, and it won't be nearly as nice as a good milsurp Mauser action, but the hard to work, gritty action seems unusual, based on my experience and reviews I've seen of the Ruger American Ranch. At worst it should just take a firm grip and some force to open.

My first thought would be to contact Ruger CS and ask. The second would be to try detail stripping the bolt, and make sure there's no grit or something interfering. Maybe a burr on the cam surface?

(Also seems a couple of my comments and following this topic got lost in the kerfuffle. Oof.)

[GS455]

Whelp,  I may be starting to develop and affinity for this little bargain rifle after all.  I’ve cycled JB Bore Paste many times and the action has smoothed out a bit.  Still a bit of a chore pushing/pulling over the magazine but this to shows signs of improvement.   I may file/sand mag feed lips as suggested, however, I have a confidence the action will improve with a different stock/chassis and use of standard AR type Duramags (or similar) for x39.  I’m going to go this route.  After todays outing, I’m pretty pleased with the results warranting going forward with the whole purpose of this folly.

I moved to a Harris bipod + rear bag and installed an old Pride & Fowler 4x BDC “rapid reticle” for 762x39.  Cystal clear glass and the BDC was effective  +/- out to 300 yds.  Couldn’t really make the 400yd steel this time out.

As a control from last time out to re-zero I ran a few mags of Republic ammo (forgot to take pics of groups but at or under 2”).  Next I ran some Yugo M67 and while the POI was essentially the same it was averaging 2+” groups.  

The big surprise was some fairly old Russian “tin” ammo I broke open after many years.  Sub 1.5” groups although the POI was down and to the left of the Republic and M67.  Not that I’ll be able to find it again but can anyone identify this tin of ammo any further?  Case head says SADU /  07 / 7.62.

 

[TSG]

Very nice groups!

I believe the mystery ammo is Romanian from the Sadu plant circa 2007. They still produce ammo that can be found on the market- some new import tins with sealed primers had been selling about $300 not too long ago.

[GS455]

Ah right ,  SADU, I should have known that from some 54r I have.  Begs the question, dating back from 2007 - corrosive? 

[GS455]

Whoa man. Thought I'd share the love.  $440 base price AND a $100 rebate from Ruger . Pretty screamin deal if anyone following is interested . . . .

https://grabagun.com/ruger-american-ranch-7-62x39-fde-16.html?trk_msg=7P9D7IG6VTTKBCM0VHHBAUHGC0&trk_contact=UOF3E0G1OE79941HDL1KLC0DO4&trk_sid=NCLFQG7KT44IE7PHJRJDJK9PF4&trk_link=NDCJQD49H8TKP5FUCF3F2V94DC&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Ruger+American+Ranch+Rifle+Flat+Dark+Earth+7.62x39+16.1%26quot%3B+Barrel+5-Rounds+(title)&utm_campaign=Blast+-+Behavioral+Banner

[Ronald_55]

9 minutes ago, GS455 said:

Whoa man. Thought I'd share the love.  $440 base price AND a $100 rebate from Ruger . Pretty screamin deal if anyone following is interested . . . .

https://grabagun.com/ruger-american-ranch-7-62x39-fde-16.html?trk_msg=7P9D7IG6VTTKBCM0VHHBAUHGC0&trk_contact=UOF3E0G1OE79941HDL1KLC0DO4&trk_sid=NCLFQG7KT44IE7PHJRJDJK9PF4&trk_link=NDCJQD49H8TKP5FUCF3F2V94DC&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Ruger+American+Ranch+Rifle+Flat+Dark+Earth+7.62x39+16.1%26quot%3B+Barrel+5-Rounds+(title)&utm_campaign=Blast+-+Behavioral+Banner

Just to clarify it is not a cash rebate. It is $100 Ruger Rewards which I think can get spent at their site.

Still a good deal with $10 shipping

Edited October 4, 2023 by Ronald_55

[Guest]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, GS455 said:

So I finally pulled the trigger (pun intended) for an RAR. $429 + $19 shipping and didn’t get charged sales tax.…
 

 

I had been watching the progress and now that you’ve chosen, it’s safe to say that while you chose a good one, that wasn’t too awful hard, they are all good  platforms. Enjoy the Ruger!

[GS455]

After a couple weeks of running several applications and cycle-sessions of valve lapping compound the action does feel smoother except when cycling the mag with snap-caps.  By itself with lithium grease and CLP it does feel much smoother but still a clunky, rough action over the magazine and still a tough turn when unlocking the bolt.  No perceived improvement there.   I certainly don’t think I can/should go any further cycling with lapping compound. I’ve probably gone 1,000 cycles (pulling the trigger half the time).  The inside action and bolt shows plenty of wear from artificial aging in this way.

Anyway,  today I came really close to ordering the “MTD LSS-XL Gen2 Chassis”.  But at $530, plus a butt stock, plus pistol grip and I believe I still need a conversion bottom-metal to accommodate AR mags,  meh, I just found it tough to justify all that expense for this little $430 rifle.  So, I just ordered a Boyds “AT-ONE Thumbhole” in Pepper (kinda grey and white laminate).  For $300 it’s a straighter pistol grip with pretty cool push-button mechanisms for instant comb height an LOP adjustment.  And the variant includes the hardware to accommodate AR/762x39 mags.  So, $343.84 (tax/shipped) + $91.87 for 5) 10rd 762x39 AR DuraMags (tax/shipped) and I’m in business for less that the base MTD chassis alone.  Hoping the action is improved with this stock and mags (no matter).   Added bonus:  No BHO feature on the DuraMags.

Will post pics when all together.

 

[GS455]

Here's the semi finished result. Bit heavier than the Ruger plasti-stock but faaaar more attractive and ergonomic in my view. Cycling with snap caps with AR mags feels much better on the bench. Still can't do an index finger release of the bolt. Considering how much cycling I did with lapping compound I imagine it's more of a high tension bolt-spring issue that I probably should not mess with (open to suggestions here). It definitely has significant fitment issues to which Boyds has responded :

"Hello, I would get some fine grit sandpaper and lightly sand and clean up the inletting of the stock, remove any wood burrs / slivers. If the barrel is making contact after cleaning up the inletting sand on the left side of the stock, where the action sits down in at. There may be something there that is shifting the action over and then resulting in the barrel coming back to the left.

You can also try baby powder on the barreled action, if there is a high spot, the powder will rub off on it and you can gently sand it down. When tightening the front action screw to 25-35 inch pounds you can also gently pull the barrel to the right. If that doesn't work, please let us know"

I haven't sent these pics yet nor have I attempted sanding. Seems like considerable mis-fitment requiring quite a bit of sanding (in my opinion) that should be closer to free float out of the box than this. I'm gonna tweak/mess with it this weekend. Might get it to the range Sunday.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by GS455

[DL126]

You might have better results than I did ...

I installed a Boyd's stock on my old Knight muzzleloader last year.
It wouldn't free float no matter what I did.
As I sanded out the channel, the forearm of the stock would just warp more and wind up with the same contact as before.

I finally said screw it and just left it like it was.
Hopefully it won't matter on a rifle with a barrel that thick and that rarely shoots past 50 yards anyway.

[22lr]

CZ527 has been on my want list for years. Seems like such a nice firearm. 

[GS455]

Well, my little saga continues if anyone is interested and/or may learn from those that come before them (or just want to bag on me).  Unfortunately this forum is no longer letting me attach a single pic.  Says exceeding size limit.  Which is weird b/c I was able to post many pics above and now I can't post one???  Sorry.

Cleaning up the inside of the stock with a bit of aggressive sanding and medium grit did sort out the alignment of the barrel in the action.  Now, on to what’s peculiar.  I discovered that when I hand tighten the action snug into the stock the bolt moves freely.  When I crank it down to about 30lbs, as Boyds recommends, the bolt will not clear the magwell and stops short of being able to close.  I added a couple #10 washers to the front action screw and that solved it BUT I should have added washers to the rear (duh) action and trigger guard screws b/c after a couple install removals the plastic magwell cracked and broke at the trigger guard.  Okay, that’s on me. 

They graciously sent a replacement free of charge advising me to go ahead and use the washers to space the magwell away to clear the bolt at full install torque.  Not sure if that’s going to be a solution.  Having Duramag issues as well:  Two of five (on the left) only accept 9 rounds and the other three show the noses tilting up.  Also, every once in a while, some rounds got ridden over by the bolt forcing me to hold the mag up during charging (caused by washers?).  I contacted them and their VP of Sales was prompt and concerned asking if I would disassemble and take pics.  Never could figure out how to get that floorplate off. 

After a few emails back n forth he went dark on me (maybe something way more important came up in his life).   GunMagWarehouse took them back for a refund and I have since ordered a pair each of ASC and of D&H Tactical ten rounders as testing alternates.  I also round some thinner brass washers.  We’ll see how these do.  If the bolt continues to ride over rounds then it’ pretty clear to conclude that the Boyds stock in relation to the magwell and magazine fitment is out of spec.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by GS455

[Darrell]

8 hours ago, GS455 said:

Says exceeding size limit.  Which is weird b/c I was able to post many pics above and now I can't post one???

There's an overall memory limit to the images we can post here. Go back to some of your earlier posts and delete the images, and you'll be able to post more.  I know this because I ran up against that limit some time ago, and it wasn't entirely clear why, but once you remove some old files you can post new ones. I think the trick is to avoid posting "big" images.

[Frog4aday]

Stock fitment & magazine issues are frustrating. I appreciate you sharing your trials & tribulations with us. I had a nice Volquartson stock for a Ruger 77 that required shimming with two fender washers to get the action to sit in it correctly so the mags would go in and out properly. Sure didn't expect that from such a well-respected manufacturer's product, but I think they just outsourced the laminated stock production to someone else & had their name put on it. These things happen.

I hope you can get your rifle, stock, & magazine issues all sorted out to your satisfaction. I will say the 7.62X39mm is a tricky round to get to feed properly from a mag. Seems the higher the capacity, the greater the chances of an issue. Obviously the Russians figured it out to feed the AK w/o issues, but everyone else can't seem to properly "reinvent" that particular 'wheel'. I have an AR in 7.62X39mm & haven't found a reliable mag for yet. It gets aggravating.