socialism/communism

[Oh Shoot]

Guests on

All Things Considered

Talk of the Nation

Tell Me More...

Okay, gotcha...

Thanks for your explanation.

WUOT doesn't carry Talk of the Nation or Tell Me More.

- OS

[NuTcAsE]

socialism is NOT a communism first of all...

second, we don`t live in socialism,this is not a socialist country...

third, communism was a ficition, it was a book, utopia, like Orwel`s 1984 or any other Sci-Fi..it was a book about "what if"..what if all the people were even, what if we all have equal rights, what if there was no money but rather everyone has what they need...? how is that bad idea?? beats me... the fact that some lunatics around the world called their terrorist systems "communism" doesn`t mean that that`s what it really was...

fourth...socialism is system where everything is concentrated on society, on middle class and working man and farmers..it is not about corporations and rich but rather about regular people... in socialism corporations are owned by the goverment, CEO`s are appointed by the goverment (without any kind of million dollar bonuses) and corporations are governed by the workers who work there thru the union`s...to live in socialism doesn`t mean that you can`t own the gun, it may be a longer process to make sure responsible people become gun owners... I was born and raised in socialism and it was far from perfect (there is not perfect system on this world) , and I remember free schools, going to the doctor any time I was sick and picking up my medications from the pharmacy, all for free, I remember my grandpa and my uncle having hunting guns and hand guns and all with a permit... what I don`t remember were mass killings,school shootings, people losing their farms because of unability to pay doctor bills, people putting the second mortgage on their house to pay for their kids education etc...while it was not all that good, it sure wasn`t all that bad either...there was no big fat CEO`s making millions of dollars but there also was not people diggin in garbage can`s looking for food....I guess, what I`m trying to say is that the fear from socialism is not based on anything real..socialism happeneds only if society wants it..the goal of socialism is not to take anyone gun right away, the goal of socialism is to make sure that everyone has a decent live and is taken care of....

Db

Bout all I can say to that is, Why are you still here? and, Do you need a way back home??

[Rightwinger]

Okay, gotcha...

Thanks for your explanation.

WUOT doesn't carry Talk of the Nation or Tell Me More.

- OS

No worries mate!

I should have clarified my post as they are not really "talk shows" in the normal venue where occasionally Rush or Jim Rome will let someone call in and then speak to it for the rest of the segment. I may be on the "right" of things but I still see that Rush is promoting Rush as much as the conservative agenda.

On the trip home now, I love Phil Valentine when I get a chance to hear him. He's good people. He's gone syndicated now so you folks in east and west TN could probably pick him up somewhere.

[Guest Galba]

In my 13 years in the military I have been all over Europe and believe me there is no place like America. And my friend socialism is horrible. Socialists like to say socialism makes everyone equal. Ask the thousands killed in Soviet purges how equal they were with those who ran the government. But wait, you can't they were killed for their defiance. No thanks. You can have your socialism. I've seen it in action

Sounds like you are in a better position to make that judgement than the person at whom I directed my comment.

[Guest Galba]

REIFICATIONTo treat as though real that which is just an abstraction or a conceptualization. Sociologists since Durkheim have been accused of reifying society which critics say is just an abstract concept and does not exist. To act as though society exists and thus can act or make decisions or coerce people is to reify society.

From the Online Dictionary of the Social Sciences

Online Dictionary of the Social Sciences

I think the quote you listed is from What is Orthodox Marxism by Lukacs.

George Lukacs in Wiki

György Lukács - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From what I read there, George ran an awful lot, as after failed revolutions, people wanted to kill him, kinda like the people he is said to have executed.

During the revolution itself, as mentioned in "Budapest Diary," Lukács argued for a new Soviet aligned communist party. In Lukács' view the new party could only win social leadership by persuasion instead of force. Lukács envisioned an alliance between the dissident communist Party of Youth, the revolutionary Hungarian Social Democratic Party and Lukács' own Soviet aligned party as a very junior partner.

Sounds like Fabian Socialism with mix of Guild Socialism, even though Marxists are indignant at Fabian views.

The problem I see with centralized power is that you can't stop it. Start rolling that snowball down the hill and see if you can stop it once its halfway and the size of a house.

But what do I know, I hammer nails for a living.

It's actually from History and Class Consciousness. I've no idea what it means. I was hoping one of you guys did.

[Guest SUNTZU]

It made my brain hurt. I originally was going to post that it was from an H.P. Lovecraft book.

[Guest TackleberryTom]

Bout all I can say to that is, Why are you still here? and, Do you need a way back home??

If he needs help getting home, although currently unemployed, I could still spare a few bucks to help him get a ticket to China where he can spend some time learning about what communism really is. And I am sure he will live a much better life there than in this horrible country. Can't we all just get along??

Ugh!! Makes me sick even typing like a lib!!

[G27]

and I`m tired of washed out rightwingers and their "if you don`t like it leave it" arguments...if you didn`t have chinese loans you would be eating beans and watter today, you need to shut up and realize that you are not the bubba king and that you don`t run the show, because let me tell you, you don`t..and you can live in your little world and be on the top but thank god in the real world nobody really pays any attention to you...why didn`t you stop Korean launch? where is you Iraq war victory, why are you borowing the money from communists and araps and then blabing here agains them...? araps can paralize the whole country if they only stop exporting the gas for a week...I`m tired of hypocrats like you who are fat and arogant and have no clue about the real life...you need to go back to your trailor and be the king there and leave the young and inteligent people to live in peace...

Db

ps

and I`m tired of your fat ass putting the words in my mouth, where did I say "you suck"..learn how to read first and then post a comments...and second, if you think Croatia sucks thats your opinion and you are entitled to it....I`m not here because Croatia sucks, fyi...

nuf said....(is that american enough for you?)

What you don't seem to understand is that we, as Americans, value our individual freedoms over all else - this is unique to the US. It doesn't matter to us, generally speaking, if a method that requires us relinquishing our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (note there's no guarantee of happiness) might be considered by some as 'better'.

Perhaps this truly is a unique attitude here - if so, it's one of the things that makes us special.

Regardless, if you wish to convince us that some other method may be better, you're going to have to show us a country where your desired method works better than ours - regardless of our problems (and yes, I openly concede we have many), we're still the most free place on earth that allows you the most amazing opportunities to succeed wildly (or fail miserably).

I wouldn't change that aspect for anything in the world...

Edited April 7, 2009 by crimsonaudio
clarity...

[Guest SUNTZU]

Not for the children?

[G27]

Not for the children?

C'mon, Sun, don't you know we hate the children?

Yeesh...

[Guest SUNTZU]

Well, I believe the children are our future...

[Smith]

First off, socialism was a relatively benign term used for centuries to refer to many different things. It was Marx who made a popular and relevant term when speaking of politics and societal order. You are correct that socialism is not Communism. However, Socialism inevitably leads to governmental oppression in one or more of several forms of Government organization - Fascism, Communism, China's current hybrid, but all end with dicatators because someone has to be the ultimate arbotor. Wester judeo Christian sociatal organization is based on the fundamental principals of absolute truths/freedoms and mans free will. We are slowly changing those fundamentals and so the decay you see is as follows. What non- judeo christian societies use as a foundation tend to secular humanism and so man has to be the one who determines absolutes. So far no one has done that very well.

Of course all this is mute becasue facts have already been discussed and ideas shared and yet you pose yet another sci-fi book explanation for why Crotia and socialism is so much better. BTW the Croats/Serbs/Gauls/Western Mongols have a very poor track record for governance and staying out of conflicts. In fact I do believe it is out of that region that every major conflict in modern history has originated, even going back as far as Alexander the Great.;)

"None so blind as he who refuses to see." and that is why socialist contries can't get it together.

[Guest sstouder]

The "news" is generally along the lines of what you get from NBC/CBS/ABC etc but when they go into their "topic" talk shows, you either get no representation from the conservative side or that rep gets talked over pretty quick. It's not as bad as the Quomo show was in it's short lived stint but it's still pretty clear that they have a leaning to the left and they are funded by the goverment or they wouldn't exist.

That is why the "fairness doctrine" is raising it's head now. Lib talk shows can't make money in the radio market so they have to be funded to continue.

Correct...a real good book to read on that issue is BIAS by Bernard Goldberg who would know since he worked for CBS for 25+years.

[Sheepdog]

How do I start? I lived in a socialist country and saw how "great" that was. Check individual heath stats on people in the UK. I also got a close look at communists across the Berlin Wall, so don't bother telling me how great that system is.

A lot of what 44 says about our society sounds like the old Soviet propaganda... and a lot of it is true. We're not perfect. But socialism (or communism) is not the answer. What's happening in our country today is due to the moral and ethical break-down of the INDIVIDUAL. The results in gov't only reflect that. Far too many people in our country today expect something for nothing and are no longer willing to work for what they want. Much of our debt is due to some in our gov't trying to artificially make everyone "equal". This never helps anyone, it only drags everyone down into the same hole together.

What 44 failed to mention is the multitude of problems that exists in socialist/communist nations (crime, black market, mafia, crooked gov't officials, being jailed w/o recourse, "re-education" camps, ect...). Even in the workers paradise, some people are more "equal" than others (Animal Farm).

I guess all I can say at the end of the day is this: Americans have never had to build a fence to keep our people in, only to keep bad people out.

Amen..

[Guest mustangdave]

Well, I believe the children are our future...

...not if its my son and daughter the Las Vegas Socialists....LOL....and to answer a question from way back on page 4 or 5...both...public school and home schooled (after the divorce and no input)...and liberal arts colleges...both dropped out. Still I seriously doubt they could answer RIGHTWINGERS set of questions.

[Guest Boomhower]

This is a subject that touches a VERY deep American nerve!

[Guest 44M]

right wing and far right are not things characteristic only for USA, there is righ wingers and nacionalists all over the world, every country has them. They are just idiots who think that they are the God given people and that they are better than enyone else. From Hitler and his neo-nazi party (btw. Hitler was neo-socialist himself, and for your 40 hour week and paid vacation idea you can thank him) to American neo-nazis. I lived in Germany for 5 years and had a chance to talk to real neo-nazi (right wing) freaks and I can tell you first hand, the only thing German neo-nazi is interested in doing with an American nazi dude, is to cut his throat... I`m tired of those idiots running around and acting stupid, I don`t give the schit about them here in US as much as I don`t give the schit about the Croatian nazis (right wing) ...right wing and far right had never done anything good to any country but brought hate,war and misery, and it pisses me off when those idiots scream against the socialism...yes, I`m a social-democrat and if I could I would make sure that all the people have everything they need, from secure work place to free educations and health care...I`m not a right wing idiot who thinks that there is nobody better than him on the whole world...and we in US are not untachable, the ocean between us and the rest of the world doesn`t mean a jack today, maybe did 200 years ago, but not today, if Araps stop shiping oil we are dead, if Chinese decide to cash out all the US treasury bonds, we are bankrupt (wich we was until we borrowed gazillion dollars from China,Japan,Araps and who knows who else)..and now some bubba is going to tell me how he is better than some socialist chinese schmuck, and at the same time is stuffing his fat ass with a hamburger he bought with the money he got from that same chines schmuck..that`s crazy... people in US need to wake up, we can`t even survive without other countries help, we don`t export nothing (except tons of machine guns to Mexico) only thing we do is import..from China,Chile,Thailand,India,Pakistan etc... not to mention oil import from Arap countries.... almost the whole US is owned by Araps and Chinese...we need to wake up and realize that world has changed, we need other people as much as they need us, the buba world from 40`s and 50`s where americans of other color were not even alowed to drink the water with the bubba, is gone...we are not going to get anywhere with the schity attitude... the sooner we realize that we are only the part of the global picture and just a part of this world, sooner we will gain our respect back from the rest of the world. How powerful are we? we are powerful enough to fight some desert rambos who fight with 30 years old AK47`s and hand made granates they had put together in some basement (we can`t even win that, after 7-8 years) but we can only watch Korea launching their rockets or Iran developing their nuclear bombs or Russian long range bombers in flight very close to Alaska..those are things we can`t do anything about, so the only thing we can do is...talk and compromise...bubba world is gone...bubba ain`t the badest guy on the block any more and he better learn how to behave and be nice...

Db

[canadienmike]

right wing and far right are not things characteristic only for USA, there is righ wingers and nacionalists all over the world, every country has them. They are just idiots who think that they are the God given people and that they are better than enyone else. From Hitler and his neo-nazi party (btw. Hitler was neo-socialist himself, and for your 40 hour week and paid vacation idea you can thank him) to American neo-nazis. I lived in Germany for 5 years and had a chance to talk to real neo-nazi (right wing) freaks and I can tell you first hand, the only thing German neo-nazi is interested in doing with an American nazi dude, is to cut his throat... I`m tired of those idiots running around and acting stupid, I don`t give the schit about them here in US as much as I don`t give the schit about the Croatian nazis (right wing) ...right wing and far right had never done anything good to any country but brought hate,war and misery, and it pisses me off when those idiots scream against the socialism...yes, I`m a social-democrat and if I could I would make sure that all the people have everything they need, from secure work place to free educations and health care...I`m not a right wing idiot who thinks that there is nobody better than him on the whole world...and we in US are not untachable, the ocean between us and the rest of the world doesn`t mean a jack today, maybe did 200 years ago, but not today, if Araps stop shiping oil we are dead, if Chinese decide to cash out all the US treasury bonds, we are bankrupt (wich we was until we borrowed gazillion dollars from China,Japan,Araps and who knows who else)..and now some bubba is going to tell me how he is better than some socialist chinese schmuck, and at the same time is stuffing his fat ass with a hamburger he bought with the money he got from that same chines schmuck..that`s crazy... people in US need to wake up, we can`t even survive without other countries help, we don`t export nothing (except tons of machine guns to Mexico) only thing we do is import..from China,Chile,Thailand,India,Pakistan etc... not to mention oil import from Arap countries.... almost the whole US is owned by Araps and Chinese...we need to wake up and realize that world has changed, we need other people as much as they need us, the buba world from 40`s and 50`s where americans of other color were not even alowed to drink the water with the bubba, is gone...we are not going to get anywhere with the schity attitude... the sooner we realize that we are only the part of the global picture and just a part of this world, sooner we will gain our respect back from the rest of the world. How powerful are we? we are powerful enough to fight some desert rambos who fight with 30 years old AK47`s and hand made granates they had put together in some basement (we can`t even win that, after 7-8 years) but we can only watch Korea launching their rockets or Iran developing their nuclear bombs or Russian long range bombers in flight very close to Alaska..those are things we can`t do anything about, so the only thing we can do is...talk and compromise...bubba world is gone...bubba ain`t the badest guy on the block any more and he better learn how to behave and be nice...

Db

Dude, paragraphs are you friend. Or do they not have paragraphs in your native language? Anywho, where to begin, your post is so full of ignorance it's almost laughable. Sure you're not a troll?

You rail about the so called extreme right wing and how they have never done anything good to any country but brought hate,war and misery and yet don't mention the extreme left wing and the hate war and misery they have brought, or have you forgotten about a guy called Stalin who was responsible for more deaths than Hitler was, and most of those were his own people.

The US doesn't export anything? Where did you pull that gem from? Try google and see that we do infact export lots of stuff. And if we can't survive without others help, then the others can't survive without us.

And what is with all the bubba crap? Don't have any real facts for your arguments so you result to name calling and calling people fat asses? Real mature, and it really leads to credibility of your statments

[E4 No More]

right wing and far right are not things characteristic only for USA, there is righ wingers and nacionalists all over the world, every country has them. They are just idiots who think that they are the God given people and that they are better than enyone else. From Hitler and his neo-nazi party (btw. Hitler was neo-socialist himself, and for your 40 hour week and paid vacation idea you can thank him) to American neo-nazis. I lived in Germany for 5 years and had a chance to talk to real neo-nazi (right wing) freaks and I can tell you first hand, the only thing German neo-nazi is interested in doing with an American nazi dude, is to cut his throat... I`m tired of those idiots running around and acting stupid, I don`t give the schit about them here in US as much as I don`t give the schit about the Croatian nazis (right wing) ...right wing and far right had never done anything good to any country but brought hate,war and misery, and it pisses me off when those idiots scream against the socialism...yes, I`m a social-democrat and if I could I would make sure that all the people have everything they need, from secure work place to free educations and health care...I`m not a right wing idiot who thinks that there is nobody better than him on the whole world...and we in US are not untachable, the ocean between us and the rest of the world doesn`t mean a jack today, maybe did 200 years ago, but not today, if Araps stop shiping oil we are dead, if Chinese decide to cash out all the US treasury bonds, we are bankrupt (wich we was until we borrowed gazillion dollars from China,Japan,Araps and who knows who else)..and now some bubba is going to tell me how he is better than some socialist chinese schmuck, and at the same time is stuffing his fat ass with a hamburger he bought with the money he got from that same chines schmuck..that`s crazy... people in US need to wake up, we can`t even survive without other countries help, we don`t export nothing (except tons of machine guns to Mexico) only thing we do is import..from China,Chile,Thailand,India,Pakistan etc... not to mention oil import from Arap countries.... almost the whole US is owned by Araps and Chinese...we need to wake up and realize that world has changed, we need other people as much as they need us, the buba world from 40`s and 50`s where americans of other color were not even alowed to drink the water with the bubba, is gone...we are not going to get anywhere with the schity attitude... the sooner we realize that we are only the part of the global picture and just a part of this world, sooner we will gain our respect back from the rest of the world. How powerful are we? we are powerful enough to fight some desert rambos who fight with 30 years old AK47`s and hand made granates they had put together in some basement (we can`t even win that, after 7-8 years) but we can only watch Korea launching their rockets or Iran developing their nuclear bombs or Russian long range bombers in flight very close to Alaska..those are things we can`t do anything about, so the only thing we can do is...talk and compromise...bubba world is gone...bubba ain`t the badest guy on the block any more and he better learn how to behave and be nice...

Db

I've been quiet on this subject until you start talking crap about the military's inability to win wars against "desert rambos...with 30 years old AK47's...." [sic]

Our military is constrained from doing what is necessary to win the war whereas our enemy is not. After all, they don't have a bunch of bleeding heart liberals like you putting a choke collar around them like we do. We have the ability to devastate that entire country without the use of a singular nuclear weapon, but we don't use them. Heck! We even have tactical nuclear weapons that wipe off every living thing in the area while preserving the structures - trust me on this one for I used to work on them - yet we don't use them.

Winning a war is a matter of will, and with people in this country like you its no wonder we haven't won. That means YOU share in the blame, so you can talk crap about our system, but leave the military out of your Bull-!

[G27]

44M, you keep bringing up 'money from China' - you do realize that only 7% of our debt is owned b y China, don't you? And that a majority our national debt is held by US citizens and business who invest in the relative safety of US T-bills, don't you?

Nah, I didn't think so...

Likewise, in your rush to paint conservative gun-owners with the broad brush of ignorance, you miss over and over again what gun-rights mean - that individuals who are law abiding citizens have the RIGHT to protect themselves (or own guns just for fun) should they choose. The government exists to serve us, not to 'protect us from ourselves' - this is what socialism is, and it disgusts those of us who believe in the rights of the individual.

Re: Croatia - how you can possibly draw on that as a comparative data point is beyond me - a country whose entire population is less than many cities here. A country whose move to Democracy started less than two decades ago. This isn't comparing apples and oranges, but rather more like comparing apples and orangutans.

In short, feel free to continue spewing your hatred and ignorance for what we affectionately know as 'American values', that's protected b y one of those principles we hold near and dear. Just don't expect us to welcome you with open arms...

[Guest Boomhower]

In short, feel free to continue spewing your hatred and ignorance for what we affectionately know as 'American values', that's protected b y one of those principles we hold near and dear. Just don't expect us to welcome you with open arms...

[Guest Boomhower]

44M....You do understand why the founding fathers of this here great United States of America (sorry, bubba talk slipped out a little) migrated here to begin with, don't you?....it definitely wasn't for the socialistic liberalism that you speak so fondly of.

[Guest gunslinger707]

Question for 44m IF socialism is so great WHY are you here ?? IF it's so great WHY is the rest of the world trying ti IMMIGRATE here ?? As for your derogatory remark's about our Military capabilitie's you can spout off on an internet forum all you want BUT if you were ever to make those statement's face to face one of us is surely going to carry an ass whipping !!!!!!!!!

[Sheepdog]

My attempt at untangling this rhetorical rat's nest of random ideas...

socialism is NOT a communism first of all...

No, but it's a step in that direction.

second, we don`t live in socialism,this is not a socialist country...

Actually, to some extent, we have been for quite a while--since the 1930's at least. Our government has been adopting socialistic policies for decades, and these days, is incorporating them at an ever faster rate.

third, communism was a ficition, it was a book, utopia, like Orwel`s 1984 or any other Sci-Fi..

I'm sure the 100,000,000+ people killed by communist governments will be happy to know that the system which exterminated them is a figment of their imaginations, and they're not really dead.

Oh, and Orwell's 1984 was not about a utopia. It was about a dystopia. It also had nothing to do with Communism. It was about totalitarianism--of which Communism just happens to be a particular flavor.

it was a book about "what if"..what if all the people were even, what if we all have equal rights, what if there was no money but rather everyone has what they need...? how is that bad idea?? beats me...

This is not a bad idea at all...if you have absolutely no ambition, and are content to live at a subsistence level. I, however, want something more--something better--for myself and my children.

The quest to make everyone "even" cannot be accomplished by making the stupid smart or the lazy productive. It can only be attempted by crushing the drive to achieve and excel--and socialism/communism excels at that.

Oh, and there is one thing in the above statement that doesn't belong. That bit about "equal rights." That is actually a good thing, but only exists in socialist/communist societies in the form of "nobody has any rights at all--only privileges doled out by the government, which may be rescinded at any time, for any reason."

the fact that some lunatics around the world called their terrorist systems "communism" doesn`t mean that that`s what it really was...

That's right. And just because some historians call invading all your neighbors and killing all the Jews "Nazism" doesn't mean that's what it really was.

Got any other word games we can play?

fourth...socialism is system where everything is concentrated on society, on middle class and working man and farmers..it is not about corporations and rich but rather about regular people... in socialism corporations are owned by the goverment, CEO`s are appointed by the goverment (without any kind of million dollar bonuses) and corporations are governed by the workers who work there thru the union`s...

Ahh, socialism! Where society is everything, and the individual is . Where do I sign up?

By the way, how has that worked out for the societies that have tried it?

to live in socialism doesn`t mean that you can`t own the gun,

No, but it always ends up that way. Because when a population is armed, it means they don't have to put up with a government that treats them like . And people do get tired of that kind of treatment after a while.

it may be a longer process to make sure responsible people become gun owners...

I have a relative in a socialist/communist country who has been certified as "trustworthy to own a gun." He was largely responsible for the occupation and subjugation of Tibet.

I wonder who I'll have to kill in order to get my gun permit...

I was born and raised in socialism and it was far from perfect (there is not perfect system on this world)

But some are closer to perfection than others. Socialism/communism are light years from it.

, and I remember free schools,

We have those here, too. You get what you pay for. People used to balk at paying for their kids to be politically indoctrinated, so they had to be free. Of course, years of public schooling has dumbed the nation down enough so that people actually are paying for their kids to be spoon-fed the that passes for education these days.

going to the doctor any time I was sick and picking up my medications from the pharmacy, all for free,

Doctors using methods pioneered in free countries, and medications invented by people who could profit from their hard work.

I remember my grandpa and my uncle having hunting guns and hand guns and all with a permit...

...again, which could be revoked at any time, for any reason.

what I don`t remember were mass killings,school shootings,

Which has what to do with socialism/communism again?

people losing their farms because of unability to pay doctor bills,

This kind of thing should never happen. Damn those entrepreneurs and corporations who make multi-million dollar lifesaving machines like CT scanners, MRI scanners, Gamma knives, DaVinci surgical robots, the MERCI clot-retrieval system for stroke victims, etc... Mother****ers, all of them.

And don't get me started on the doctors. Just because they graduate $200,000 in debt, and sacrificed 8+ years of their lives studying things like organic chemistry while their peers were nailing sorority sisters at keg parties, what gives them the nerve or the right to expect to be well-paid for replacing frat-boy livers and curing their STDs?

We really need to go back to the agrarian days when farmers would die when they got sick, but at least they wouldn't have to sell their farms.

people putting the second mortgage on their house to pay for their kids education etc...

while it was not all that good, it sure wasn`t all that bad either...there was no big fat CEO`s making millions of dollars but there also was not people diggin in garbage can`s looking for food....

Sorry, but there has never been a society devoid of "garbagetarians." Nor will there ever be. At least, in the United States of America, poverty for adults is still a lifestyle choice, and not a government requirement.

I guess, what I`m trying to say is that the fear from socialism is not based on anything real..

So every so-called "nation" that has ever adopted socialism and failed wasn't real. They were just theme parks of poverty, like some dystopian Disney Lands.

socialism happeneds only if society wants it..

Which it will, if years of public schooling tells them how wonderful it will be.

the goal of socialism is not to take anyone gun right away,

Of course that's not a goal. It's a means to an end.

the goal of socialism is to make sure that everyone has a decent live and is taken care of....

Until the government runs out of money. Then everybody is equally ****ed.

[Guest TEBISH]

right wing and far right are not things characteristic only for USA, there is righ wingers and nacionalists all over the world, every country has them. They are just idiots who think that they are the God given people and that they are better than enyone else. From Hitler and his neo-nazi party (btw. Hitler was neo-socialist himself, and for your 40 hour week and paid vacation idea you can thank him) to American neo-nazis. I lived in Germany for 5 years and had a chance to talk to real neo-nazi (right wing) freaks and I can tell you first hand, the only thing German neo-nazi is interested in doing with an American nazi dude, is to cut his throat... I`m tired of those idiots running around and acting stupid, I don`t give the schit about them here in US as much as I don`t give the schit about the Croatian nazis (right wing) ...right wing and far right had never done anything good to any country but brought hate,war and misery, and it pisses me off when those idiots scream against the socialism...yes, I`m a social-democrat and if I could I would make sure that all the people have everything they need, from secure work place to free educations and health care...I`m not a right wing idiot who thinks that there is nobody better than him on the whole world...and we in US are not untachable, the ocean between us and the rest of the world doesn`t mean a jack today, maybe did 200 years ago, but not today, if Araps stop shiping oil we are dead, if Chinese decide to cash out all the US treasury bonds, we are bankrupt (wich we was until we borrowed gazillion dollars from China,Japan,Araps and who knows who else)..and now some bubba is going to tell me how he is better than some socialist chinese schmuck, and at the same time is stuffing his fat ass with a hamburger he bought with the money he got from that same chines schmuck..that`s crazy... people in US need to wake up, we can`t even survive without other countries help, we don`t export nothing (except tons of machine guns to Mexico) only thing we do is import..from China,Chile,Thailand,India,Pakistan etc... not to mention oil import from Arap countries.... almost the whole US is owned by Araps and Chinese...we need to wake up and realize that world has changed, we need other people as much as they need us, the buba world from 40`s and 50`s where americans of other color were not even alowed to drink the water with the bubba, is gone...we are not going to get anywhere with the schity attitude... the sooner we realize that we are only the part of the global picture and just a part of this world, sooner we will gain our respect back from the rest of the world. How powerful are we? we are powerful enough to fight some desert rambos who fight with 30 years old AK47`s and hand made granates they had put together in some basement (we can`t even win that, after 7-8 years) but we can only watch Korea launching their rockets or Iran developing their nuclear bombs or Russian long range bombers in flight very close to Alaska..those are things we can`t do anything about, so the only thing we can do is...talk and compromise...bubba world is gone...bubba ain`t the badest guy on the block any more and he better learn how to behave and be nice...

Db

Lost count on the number of misspelled words - but he had me wondering on "hand made granates". Thought it must be some fruity umbrella drink with grenadine and granate was just a foreign term. According to wikipedia granate is a mineral - so I'm wrong - hand made minerals. Seriously - type it in MS Word, then spell check, that is if Bill Gates isn't a right wing devil to you.

I also love the numerous misspellings of "Arabs" as Araps. Somehow I feel that it is completely racist to misspell a race's name multiple times. Shame on you.