Springfield Echelon

[et45]

Looks like Springfield introduced their version of the 320 tonight.

[Chucktshoes]

The review embargoes dropped, and I’ve seen a couple videos on it. I ain’t mad at it.

[Grayfox54]

For those in the Memphis area, Range USA is doing the official reveal thing this morning. First 50 get a free hat, target and 10 rounds of ammo. I'm guessing that's so you can test fire the new gun. 

I'm up and moving, guess I'll wander over and take a look. 

[Grayfox54]

I went and looked, I'm back already. Nothing special. Just another striker fired piece of plastic. 

But They DID NOT have the promised freebies! No free hats, no free ammo and no free targets. Don't waste your time. 

[Garufa]

 

[JustEd]

Never thought I would say this in Tennessee. However am now worried about keeping weapons rather than the latest and greatest 

sorry to make it political

Edited July 12, 2023 by JustEd

[chances R]

Take a look at the Canik Rival -all steel.  Really nice and with some heft.  My M&Ps are going to get lonely.

[deerslayer]

15 minutes ago, chances R said:

Take a look at the Canik Rival -all steel.  Really nice and with some heft. 

...if you can find one.

[Grayfox54]

I've discovered that I was wrong. The introduction was today. The Range Day where they give out the swag is Saturday. According to the SA web site, Range USA, Memphis is supposed to be participating. Nobody mentioned it when I was there today. But if you wanna give it a shot, be there Saturday. 

[TGO David]

On 7/12/2023 at 8:29 AM, Chucktshoes said:

The review embargoes dropped, and I’ve seen a couple videos on it. I ain’t mad at it.

I'm pretty intrigued by it.  They did a lot of things right with the design.  Now I need to see if their execution of the design is as good as the design itself.

If they pulled it off, this could be a legitimate evolutionary step for the modern striker fired handgun.

 

[TGO David]

22 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I went and looked, I'm back already. Nothing special. Just another striker fired piece of plastic. 

You didn't look very hard, I guess.

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

I'm pretty intrigued by it.  They did a lot of things right with the design.  Now I need to see if their execution of the design is as good as the design itself.

If they pulled it off, this could be a legitimate evolutionary step for the modern striker fired handgun.

 

My biggest thing is that I’m glad to see another major manufacturer move into the chassis system. Sig and bespoke Glock clone manufacturers have been doing it long enough to show the viability. This is the direction I want to see widely adopted in the industry. It’s the completely logical way to do a polymer framed gun. Giving pistols AR levels of modularity would be amazing. 

[TGO David]

5 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

My biggest thing is that I’m glad to see another major manufacturer move into the chassis system. Sig and bespoke Glock clone manufacturers have been doing it long enough to show the viability. This is the direction I want to see widely adopted in the industry. It’s the completely logical way to do a polymer framed gun. Giving pistols AR levels of modularity would be amazing. 

I'm going to be more than a little surprised if Sig doesn't sue them for the COG design.  It looks so damned similar to the P320's FCG that even the dimensions of the bends in the metal chassis look like they are a near perfect match.

It still blows my mind that Glock, the manufacturer of the preeminent polymer pistol, hasn't adopted a chassis model yet.  They have literally been left in the dust by Sig in this regard.  Well, and now Springfield and HS Produkt.

Maybe the Glock Gen 12 will adopt it. 

[Chucktshoes]

I think of Glock a lot like AC/DC. They have their lane and stay in it by putting out the same thing every couple of years with only the slightest variations. Is there really any innovation? Not for decades, but when you grab their latest release, you know exactly what you’re gonna get. 

[tercel89]

The only thing I worry about with a "chassis" system is will it stay in place over a long time with a lot of ammo through it ? Since it contains the ejector but the slide has the firing pin and extractor , and the frame has the magazine release button/catch I just wonder if the chassis thing will ever work it's way loose over time and cause those parts not to line up correctly. But I'm a worrier , LOL . Time will tell with lots of people using it. I'd be willing to try it if it would come out in .45acp. I'm pretty squared away with 9mm and I'm sure lots of others are too. But I can't complain , we are living in good times with all these choices available to us. I was just getting into guns 1 year before the "Clinton Ban" came out. Those were crappy 10 years from 1994-2004. Magazines blocked down to 10rds and AR's and Ak's banned from being sold. So enjoy all these nice and many choices while we can. 

[Choatecav]

1 hour ago, tercel89 said:

The only thing I worry about with a "chassis" system is will it stay in place over a long time with a lot of ammo through it ? Since it contains the ejector but the slide has the firing pin and extractor , and the frame has the magazine release button/catch I just wonder if the chassis thing will ever work it's way loose over time and cause those parts not to line up correctly. But I'm a worrier , LOL . Time will tell with lots of people using it. I'd be willing to try it if it would come out in .45acp. I'm pretty squared away with 9mm and I'm sure lots of others are too. But I can't complain , we are living in good times with all these choices available to us. I was just getting into guns 1 year before the "Clinton Ban" came out. Those were crappy 10 years from 1994-2004. Magazines blocked down to 10rds and AR's and Ak's banned from being sold. So enjoy all these nice and many choices while we can. 

I agree with you on this.  Also, unless the cost to swap and add the uppers and the lowers are markedly less, I fail to see much benefit to the chassis system concept.  

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, tercel89 said:

The only thing I worry about with a "chassis" system is will it stay in place over a long time with a lot of ammo through it ? Since it contains the ejector but the slide has the firing pin and extractor , and the frame has the magazine release button/catch I just wonder if the chassis thing will ever work it's way loose over time and cause those parts not to line up correctly. 

The P320 has pretty much answered this question for all of us.

 

20 minutes ago, Choatecav said:

I agree with you on this.  Also, unless the cost to swap and add the uppers and the lowers are markedly less, I fail to see much benefit to the chassis system concept.  

Chassis systems allow one serialized part.  If you live where gun registries and ownership quotas are enforced, you can own one "gun" with sundry different slides and grip modules.

If you like experimenting with your ####, chassis systems are the "Build a Bear" of the gun world.  Buy multiple slides, grip modules, etc. for different configurations for a lot less money than buying multiple guns.

Dog chewed up your grip?  Had the bright idea to bubba-up your grip with a soldering iron and a hot idea for a homebrew stipple job?  Paid someone to do that because you're an even bigger moron?  Pay $60 for a new grip module and call it a day.

Whamo Toys just released a new bullpup design "pistol" and all you need to make it run is your serialized fire control unit?  Hot damn!  Hope you have one!  Bummer if you own a Glock.

Want to run a 17-rd full size gun for fun at the range or multi-day training classes, but want to carry a 15-rd version of the gun for EDC purposes?  Sure is nice to just be able to swap the grip module and magazines.

Like to color coordinate your gun with your underwear?  Well, if you're a woman that's probably socially acceptable and you can do it for cheap with interchangeable grip modules.  If you're a dude and you like Glocks, you're going to need to buy another G42 and have it Cerekoted Tiffany Blue, you weirdo.

 

I could go on, but seriously it's not hard to see why this is an idea whose time has come.

 

[JustEd]

3 hours ago, TGO David said:

I'm going to be more than a little surprised if Sig doesn't sue them for the COG design.  It looks so damned similar to the P320's FCG that even the dimensions of the bends in the metal chassis look like they are a near perfect match.

It still blows my mind that Glock, the manufacturer of the preeminent polymer pistol, hasn't adopted a chassis model yet.  They have literally been left in the dust by Sig in this regard.  Well, and now Springfield and HS Produkt.

Maybe the Glock Gen 12 will adopt it. 

From the little I have seen it is quite different.  Sear is different and take down is quite different.  No if they get sued or not, well that is what keeps attorneys fat and sassy.

[Grayfox54]

7 hours ago, TGO David said:

You didn't look very hard, I guess.

No I didn't. Plastic just ain't my thing. 

[Choatecav]

5 hours ago, TGO David said:

The P320 has pretty much answered this question for all of us.

 

Chassis systems allow one serialized part.  If you live where gun registries and ownership quotas are enforced, you can own one "gun" with sundry different slides and grip modules.

If you like experimenting with your ####, chassis systems are the "Build a Bear" of the gun world.  Buy multiple slides, grip modules, etc. for different configurations for a lot less money than buying multiple guns.

Dog chewed up your grip?  Had the bright idea to bubba-up your grip with a soldering iron and a hot idea for a homebrew stipple job?  Paid someone to do that because you're an even bigger moron?  Pay $60 for a new grip module and call it a day.

Whamo Toys just released a new bullpup design "pistol" and all you need to make it run is your serialized fire control unit?  Hot damn!  Hope you have one!  Bummer if you own a Glock.

Want to run a 17-rd full size gun for fun at the range or multi-day training classes, but want to carry a 15-rd version of the gun for EDC purposes?  Sure is nice to just be able to swap the grip module and magazines.

Like to color coordinate your gun with your underwear?  Well, if you're a woman that's probably socially acceptable and you can do it for cheap with interchangeable grip modules.  If you're a dude and you like Glocks, you're going to need to buy another G42 and have it Cerekoted Tiffany Blue, you weirdo.

 

I could go on, but seriously it's not hard to see why this is an idea whose time has come.

 

I guess my needs are just more simple than most. 

Can't recall the last time I gave consideration to the color of my guns and if they matched my drawers.  Although I have noticed a match in them and the paper targets I use....... Both have holes in them.   

[JohnSutton1980]

I am impressed with it. In video form as of yet. I EDC a Hellcat though I love my Glocks. 
The only thing that concerns me is the normal time table it takes for release and then if well received and sold THEN they finally release the different grip modules and slides at a decent price. Then you just hope to find them available. 
I went through this with Sig and even now occasionally I still get sticker shock by 320 parts. 
I may go rent one but Im fairly certain I won’t buy one for 5+ years. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by JohnSutton1980

[TGO David]

13 hours ago, Choatecav said:

I guess my needs are just more simple than most. 

Can't recall the last time I gave consideration to the color of my guns and if they matched my drawers.  Although I have noticed a match in them and the paper targets I use....... Both have holes in them.   

Mine have holes in them because I keep buying guns instead of new drawers. 

 

[JustEd]

23 hours ago, tercel89 said:

The only thing I worry about with a "chassis" system is will it stay in place over a long time with a lot of ammo through it ? Since it contains the ejector but the slide has the firing pin and extractor , and the frame has the magazine release button/catch I just wonder if the chassis thing will ever work it's way loose over time and cause those parts not to line up correctly. But I'm a worrier , LOL . Time will tell with lots of people using it. I'd be willing to try it if it would come out in .45acp. I'm pretty squared away with 9mm and I'm sure lots of others are too. But I can't complain , we are living in good times with all these choices available to us. I was just getting into guns 1 year before the "Clinton Ban" came out. Those were crappy 10 years from 1994-2004. Magazines blocked down to 10rds and AR's and Ak's banned from being sold. So enjoy all these nice and many choices while we can. 

Replaceable grip module alleviates that concern

Most of these are weapons made for military/police. So the have been tested far beyond what you or I will put them through 

But then again, some manufacturers do scrimp on their civilian market offerings

SIG, I’m looking at you

[tercel89]

I went to one of my favorite shops to look at their used section. One of the guys there knows me and told me to come back to the rear of the shop. He just got in the Echelon and handed it to me. I thought that it's just another plastic striker gun like the rest. Man , I am impressed. The trigger is thick and flat when you depress the trigger safety. The trigger reset it as short as the Canik TP series which is awesome ! The magazines are held in place on the front of the magazines like the XD's are and like Ruger P-Series were. The grips texture was aggressive but at the same time it would not hurt your skin if you carried it against your skin and it rubbed your love-handles. I was very impressed. I will see how some owners like them after they get some high mileage and wear and tear on them. I bet that if James Yeager was still alive he would try this pistol out and maybe like it. He ventured into the S&W Shield and then Canik. I bet he'd give the pistol some good hard use with his students in his classes. It comes with the 2 magazines , cardboard box and a nylon/soft carry bag. I hate to admit , but from what I saw and felt of this pistol , I will probably get one if it proves good. The shop said that they may go around the mid $500 range. 

[Garufa]

I can’t keep up with every new gun that comes out but am definitely looking forward to @TGO David’s hands on review and exquisite pictures.
 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Garufa