charging Electric Cars

[Whisper]

38 minutes ago, Garufa said:

I saw a Lucid being towed from the parking garage today downtown where I park.....Those cars start at around  $75-85k I think.  Usually over $100k.

Being towed by a vehicle with an internal combusion engine?  

[Whisper]

Sorry, double tap.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Whisper
Double tap

[1gewehr]

3 hours ago, pop pop said:

Friend told me today it cost 250.00 to renew tags in TN now. That is how they are recouping the gas tax money. There is also a fire danger to the batteries. I see them on the side of the road "some times" while traveling in our RV. Also see older cars also, but not newer ones. Me, not interested in an EV. 

Is that just for EVs?  I just renewed my tags for my gasoline SUV and it was $34 total.  Another reason to stick with internal combustion.

[1gewehr]

Duplicate.  Sorry.

Edited May 31, 2023 by 1gewehr
Duplicate. Sorry.

[peejman]

7 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Wouldn't you still have maintenance like brakes, ball joints, tie rods, shocks, etc? Aside from oil changes it seems like maintenance would be about the same. 

Granted, I realize a lot of people don't actually replace their suspension components like they should. 

Pretty much what @billmeek said. Most new cars arent getting suspension work until 150k or so.  His still feels tight with 100k.  Mechanical brakes get very little wear with regen.  He said that's the biggest adjustment when switching to his wife's suv.... the suv doesn't slow itself down. His wife gets excited as you might guess.

[peejman]

27 minutes ago, 1gewehr said:

Is that just for EVs?  I just renewed my tags for my gasoline SUV and it was $34 total.  Another reason to stick with internal combustion.

Yes, EV owners pay a big registration fee instead of paying $0.26/ gal in tax.  

[billmeek]

5 hours ago, pop pop said:

Friend told me today it cost 250.00 to renew tags in TN now. That is how they are recouping the gas tax money. There is also a fire danger to the batteries.

As far as I can find, there is an additional $100 added to the registration cost:

https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/revenue/documents/notices/titlereg/tr17-10.pdf

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are inherently more stable than other lithium battery types. They are harder to ignite, better handle higher temperatures and don’t decompose like other lithium chemistries tend to do.  So overall they are much safer.

[papa61]

I appreciate all of the input. Learned a few things and since I'm in the auto parts industry that counts.

I don't dislike EVs and I do think they make sense for some uses. For my commute of 30 miles one way, with charging stations on our company lot, one would be great for me. But the expense for a "go to work" car is ridiculous. I would be better served by a plug in hybrid. I do think most of the EVs available are, let's say, not pleasant looking. That is purely personal taste as many ICE vehicles are equally unpleasant. The technology is improving by leaps and bounds so the push has been good for that aspect and I expect within my lifetime the benefits will make EVs more practical.

BUT, we don't have the charging stations nor the power available to make them a viable replacement for ICE at this time. I do not believe EV is going to last. I read that VOLVO has put several hydrogen fuel cell trucks on the road. Fuel cell tech could be the answer. All of this and I have for decades believed in diversifying our fuel needs. So EV is good on that front.

My biggest issue is the socialist puppet trying to force these down my throat. I dislike anything that's pushed on me. I'm also a full believer in free market economy. The similarities to a certain dictator and "people's car" are too much. The thought that the executives in my company are getting a government kickback funded by my tax dollars chafes my ass. that brings up the picture I have had of Tesla being a status symbol since they delivered their first unit. I realize the tech would be decades away without tax money but let the market drive itself. That is what free market economy means. Do we need alternative fuels? Absolutely. Is this the way to handle it? Not in my opinion. Will I continue to drive ICE vehicles? Oh hell yeah! EVs may be quicker but there's nothing like a good exhaust note to get your attention.

[papa61]

Just now, papa61 said:

I appreciate all of the input. Learned a few things and since I'm in the auto parts industry that counts.

I don't dislike EVs and I do think they make sense for some uses. For my commute of 30 miles one way, with charging stations on our company lot, one would be great for me. But the expense for a "go to work" car is ridiculous. I would be better served by a plug in hybrid. I do think most of the EVs available are, let's say, not pleasant looking. That is purely personal taste as many ICE vehicles are equally unpleasant. The technology is improving by leaps and bounds so the push has been good for that aspect and I expect within my lifetime the benefits will make EVs more practical.

BUT, we don't have the charging stations nor the power available to make them a viable replacement for ICE at this time. I do not believe EV is going to last. I read that VOLVO has put several hydrogen fuel cell trucks on the road. Fuel cell tech could be the answer. All of this and I have for decades believed in diversifying our fuel needs. So EV is good on that front.

My biggest issue is the socialist puppet trying to force these down my throat. I dislike anything that's pushed on me. I'm also a full believer in free market economy. The similarities to a certain dictator and "people's car" are too much. The thought that the executives in my company are getting a government kickback funded by my tax dollars chafes my ass. that brings up the picture I have had of Tesla being a status symbol since they delivered their first unit. I realize the tech would be decades away without tax money but let the market drive itself. That is what free market economy means. Do we need alternative fuels? Absolutely. Is this the way to handle it? Not in my opinion. Will I continue to drive ICE vehicles? Oh hell yeah! EVs may be quicker but there's nothing like a good exhaust note to get your attention.

One last note. The green energy, earth savers don't want us mining lithium in the US so we would still be dependent on foreign "energy"

[willis68]

13 hours ago, 1gewehr said:

Is that just for EVs?  I just renewed my tags for my gasoline SUV and it was $34 total.  Another reason to stick with internal combustion.

In Tennessee Vehicle registration fees differ by the County. I know in Wilson County I pay far less for my SUV personal tags than my brother in Law who lives in Davidson County pays for regular registration.

[billmeek]

13 hours ago, papa61 said:

For my commute of 30 miles one way, with charging stations on our company lot, one would be great for me. But the expense for a "go to work" car is ridiculous.

The upcoming Tesla "model 2" (not an official Tesla name) is supposed to have a starting price of $25,000.  That would make it more feasible. 

 

14 hours ago, papa61 said:

BUT, we don't have the charging stations nor the power available to make them a viable replacement for ICE at this time.

According to the Tesla Product impact report:

Quote

Our global network had 99.95% uptime and was 100% renewable in 2022, achieved through a combination of onsite resources and annual renewable matching.

Reference:

https://www.tesla.com/impact/product

14 hours ago, papa61 said:

The green energy, earth savers don't want us mining lithium in the US so we would still be dependent on foreign "energy"

Currently, there is only one US mine operating in Nevada.  There are several companies looking to open new mines in 4 other states.  But where does that lithium go to be refined?  For the most part... China. 

Tesla just broke ground on a Lithium refinery:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-lithium-refinery-groundbreaking

[Grayfox54]

I believe that EVs are the wave of the future. Some day that will be what everybody drives. But the technology just ain't there yet. I'd guess it'll be probably another 20-30 years before they're truly practical. 

Until then its just another greeny dream that they can fuss about. 

[papa61]

3 hours ago, billmeek said:

The upcoming Tesla "model 2" (not an official Tesla name) is supposed to have a starting price of $25,000.  That would make it more feasible. 

Not while I only go to the office twice per week. I drive the "second car", in this case an old truck. and I'm 62 so I'd retire before I got my return on investment.

[billmeek]

1 hour ago, papa61 said:

Not while I only go to the office twice per week. I drive the "second car", in this case an old truck. and I'm 62 so I'd retire before I got my return on investment.

Agreed.  I didn't know that info.

I don't drive that many miles anymore.  Yet for me, the FSD (full self-driving) is more of an appeal than the EV portion.  I've even investigated OpenPilot... an open source advanced driver assistance system.  Of course my vehicle is 1 year too old (2020 model) to use it:

https://comma.ai/

Edited June 1, 2023 by billmeek

[papa61]

1 hour ago, billmeek said:

Agreed.  I didn't know that info.

I don't drive that many miles anymore.  Yet for me, the FSD (full self-driving) is more of an appeal than the EV portion.  I've even investigated OpenPilot... an open source advanced driver assistance system.  Of course my vehicle is 1 year too old (2020 model) to use it:

https://comma.ai/

We dropped down a level when we bought our Buick. One of the reasons was to avoid auto braking. It wasn't the determining factor but it did play into the decision. Not trying to be demeaning, self driving is a no-go for me. I have issues with Blind Spot Warning, makes me lazy or whatever. Works well but I learned to drive in a neck brace, mirrors are my friend. LOL!

[billmeek]

I live alone in a rural area.  Last time I called 911 (for a heart attack), it was 45 minutes before they got here.  The drive to the hospital at posted speeds is less than 25 minutes. FSD would have been a lot quicker than calling for an ambulance. 

I'm not quite sure why you would want to avoid auto-braking.  Do you mind explaining that one?

 

[papa61]

18 minutes ago, billmeek said:

I live alone in a rural area.  Last time I called 911 (for a heart attack), it was 45 minutes before they got here.  The drive to the hospital at posted speeds is less than 25 minutes. FSD would have been a lot quicker than calling for an ambulance. 

I'm not quite sure why you would want to avoid auto-braking.  Do you mind explaining that one?

 

I stop in traffic with enough room to escape and try to avoid being in center lanes at traffic lights. I may want to hit what is in front of me in certain circumstances. I also do not want lane keep assistance. It's all old school driving technique and situational awareness, escape and evade. I will scew up ABS in a panic stop EVERY time and I've had ABS for years. Driving with assistance dulls the senses and allows one to lose focus. Not a bad thing for some but it's not for me.

[bersaguy]

There are just some things that people need to do and drive is one of them and I mean 100% drive. You don't need vehicles that drive for you. I spoke with my insurance agent last month because my rate actually came down by $54.00 and she said because you have a vehicle that does not have any self driving abilities. She said people that buy these new cars with all the bells and whistles pay dearly for them in insurance.

[Alleycat72]

9 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

There are just some things that people need to do and drive is one of them and I mean 100% drive. You don't need vehicles that drive for you. I spoke with my insurance agent last month because my rate actually came down by $54.00 and she said because you have a vehicle that does not have any self driving abilities. She said people that buy these new cars with all the bells and whistles pay dearly for them in insurance.

In 20 years people will have subscriptions for automated self driving car. Tap your phone and one is sitting outside your door. No need to purchase a vehicle. 15 years after that it'll be mandatory. 

[bersaguy]

24 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

In 20 years people will have subscriptions for automated self driving car. Tap your phone and one is sitting outside your door. No need to purchase a vehicle. 15 years after that it'll be mandatory. 

You may have a good point Cat but I'm 73 years old so I don't expect to be around to tap my phone in 15 years.....

[Kimber451911]

I honestly hope I never know.. and can keep gas in my old vehicles until I’m gone.  Buying another carb non-computer vehicle very soon.