charging Electric Cars

[pop pop]

Does anyone here know what it cost to recharge a totally electric car at a charging station?

[Garufa]

Costs whatever they charge.  

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. 

[BigK]

I'm curious too, because there's a lot of "free" places, like Cracker Barrel. However, you'd have to eat pretty darn slow to charge a battery.

Are you asking about what it costs at home?

[RED333]

A quick search

https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-a-tesla/

 

[bersaguy]

We pay a gas tax when we buy gas. I wonder if they have a tax on the electric people pay that own an EV?

[Whisper]

33 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

We pay a gas tax when we buy gas. I wonder if they have a tax on the electric people pay that own an EV?

That's a question that's been raised a lot.  The gas tax goes to support highway construction and maintenance, and as electric cars gain more market share, gas tax funding for highways will shrink.  You can bet that the government will want to find a way to replace that lost revenue....

 

[pop pop]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I could never get a straight answer on how much it cost to charge the EVs, although there are a bunch of variables connected with electric cars. I got into a solar water heater and it never paid for itself before the thing went south. When it went south no one would work on it and one could not get parts for them. Had I not received a big tax credit, when I purchased it in the 80's, I would have lost big money on it.  

I figure the EVs will cost more money than Gas or diesel powered machines let alone the hinderance of having to charge them very often. I have a grandson who purchased an EV, but he did not keep it long. My daughter said it needed charging every time he wanted to go somewhere out of his routine and he didn't have enough juice to get where he was going. 

All a big boon-doggle, IMO. Doubt I will ever purchase one unless forced too. 

[bersaguy]

13 minutes ago, pop pop said:

Thanks for the responses, guys. I could never get a straight answer on how much it cost to charge the EVs, although there are a bunch of variables connected with electric cars. I got into a solar water heater and it never paid for itself before the thing went south. When it went south no one would work on it and one could not get parts for them. Had I not received a big tax credit, when I purchased it in the 80's, I would have lost big money on it.  

I figure the EVs will cost more money than Gas or diesel powered machines let alone the hinderance of having to charge them very often. I have a grandson who purchased an EV, but he did not keep it long. My daughter said it needed charging every time he wanted to go somewhere out of his routine and he didn't have enough juice to get where he was going. 

All a big boon-doggle, IMO. Doubt I will ever purchase one unless forced too. 

At my age if they tell me I have to buy one I will just quit driving all together since I have not drove the Jeep in 5 months. I will pay insurance on it and tag it one more time and pass it down to my son after that.

[Hozzie]

They are perfectly fine for a lot of people who don’t travel long distances daily.  If you don’t own a home where you can put a charger I think it becomes less attractive. 
 

just had a discussion with some friends from Ohio this week.  They charge $100 per year for EV’s. 

[eRay]

2 hours ago, bersaguy said:

We pay a gas tax when we buy gas. I wonder if they have a tax on the electric people pay that own an EV?

I think I read someplace that Tennessee charges an extra $150 or $200 when you renew your registration on an electric vehicle to pay for road repairs.

[MacGyver]

Asked a colleague with a Tesla.  Says it costs 5-6 dollars on the super charger next door.  Out parking lot at work has chargers - so you might say our rent pays for it.  At home he’s got a 220V charging station.  Said his electric bill was maybe $15 - $20 more per month than it was before. 

[NoBanStan]

Not to take this in a different direction, but I'm pretty sure the super chargers also wear out your battery faster, yes? Maybe that's a fast charger? I have no clue. I burn dead dinos

[MacGyver]

4 minutes ago, NoBanStan said:

Not to take this in a different direction, but I'm pretty sure the super chargers also wear out your battery faster, yes? Maybe that's a fast charger? I have no clue. I burn dead dinos

I think they’re designed specifically to maximize battery life.  I know they’ll take it very quickly up to 80% and then slow from there.

That said, this is an instance where I’m sure it makes sense to get the specific charger your brand recommends and not get one off Alibaba or the like. 

[BigK]

3 hours ago, NoBanStan said:

Not to take this in a different direction, but I'm pretty sure the super chargers also wear out your battery faster, yes? Maybe that's a fast charger? I have no clue. I burn dead dinos

I'm not a battery expert, so this my not apply to EVs.

I just put a lithium battery in my motorcycle. Their brand of chargers come in 1A, 2A, 5A, and 10A. The specs say the trade off for faster (higher amp) charging is a shorter lifespan of the battery.

I've always heard the same for flooded batteries (trickle charging extends the life).

[billmeek]

On most EVs (and other lithium batteries), you don’t run the battery down fully as it can cause wear on the batter just the same as charging it to 100% will cause battery wear.  The normal range is 20-80% for everyday usage.  Lithium Iron Phosphate (Tesla LFP) in the new Model 3 do not have this issue and can be charged to 100% daily and discharged to near zero without significant wear.  

Fast charging at the Tesla Super Chargers also causes wear on all batteries.  The Super chargers can push a battery to 80% in around 25 minutes depending on the model of car.   The fast charging is really meant for those on a longer trip to refill quickly with the tradeoff of some wear on the battery.  One Youtuber that I’ve been watching his videos on the Model 3 (using the older lithium chemistry) only charged on the SuperCharger network as he has to street park his car so is unable to slow charge at home.  He had to replace the battery pack at 135,000 miles.   Tesla stated that even if he had charged once per day at home and twice on the Supercharger rather than the 3 times a day, he would have likely gotten over 200k on the pack.  He’s using the Model 3 as an Uber.

Something you may not have considered about EVs is the cost of maintenance.  No oil changes, filters, spark plug, etc.  Even at 140 K miles the Youtuber is on his original brakes as the Tesla uses regenerative braking.  So the only regular maintenance is tires.

I’ve been considering a Tesla for the FSD (Full Self Driving). It’s getting very near to the point where it doesn’t require operator input at all.  I’ve decided to wait a bit for the model 3 refresh or possibly the model 2 (not an official Tesla name) as it will be considerably cheaper.  If I do get one, my plan is to put solar on my garage and rarely (if ever) pay for the power to charge the car.

 

[billmeek]

Something to clarify, only the base Model 3 (RWD) and the Long Range have the new Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.  Since the batteries are not completely produced in the USA yet, they only get the $3,750 tax credit.  Where the model 3 Performance gets the full $7500. 

Another thing is that Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry produces much safer batteries.  If I'm parking inside, I'd much rather have the LFP in the base model.

[deerslayer]

2 hours ago, billmeek said:

One Youtuber that I’ve been watching his videos on the Model 3 (using the older lithium chemistry) only charged on the SuperCharger network as he has to street park his car so is unable to slow charge at home.  He had to replace the battery pack at 135,000 miles.   Tesla stated that even if he had charged once per day at home and twice on the Supercharger rather than the 3 times a day, he would have likely gotten over 200k on the pack.  He’s using the Model 3 as an Uber.

How much did the new battery pack cost?

[billmeek]

He got a rebuilt pack for $8000.  I believe he stated that the rebuilt pack had the capacity "as new".  I'll try to find that specific video again to verify.

I just watched a video an hour or so ago of another guy that also has only charged using superchargers.  His 2018 has 150,000 miles and the battery pack has lost about 11% efficiency.   Until you're down to 70%, the battery is still in spec.

[peejman]

Friend of mine has a Tesla with around 100k miles.  Last we talked, his battery was at 91% efficiency. As mentioned, you don't have all the usual car maintenance, just tires. He gets about 20k miles from an $1000 set of tires.  That sounds like a lot but total operating cost isn't bad without all the other maintenance. 

[Erik88]

8 minutes ago, peejman said:

As mentioned, you don't have all the usual car maintenance, just tires.

Wouldn't you still have maintenance like brakes, ball joints, tie rods, shocks, etc? Aside from oil changes it seems like maintenance would be about the same. 

Granted, I realize a lot of people don't actually replace their suspension components like they should. 

[billmeek]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Wouldn't you still have maintenance like brakes...

EVs use regenerative braking to slow the car.  In a Tesla you can opt for "one pedal driving" where the car applies .2g of de-acceleration via the motors when you let off the "gas pedal".  The .2g is similar to lightly applying the brake.  While you an still use the brakes in an emergency situation, for normal driving they are not required.  Once the car is completely stopped, the hydraulic brakes are also activated automatically to hold the car in place.  If the car is on a low traction surface when using one pedal driving, the car will automatically use a mix of regenerative braking and hydraulic brakes.

Since the brakes are rarely used, they last a lot longer.  Full self driving cars often still have 80% life on their brakes at 150+ miles. 

Note - Older Teslas do not have regenerative braking and it cannot be retrofitted.  All current models do regenerative braking.

Belts, hoses, spark plugs, transmission (and associated drive train components) don't exist.

One thing that does exist (that might surprise you) is that the Tesla's have a regular 12V car battery that needs replacement.  The 12V battery maintains power for critical systems when the main battery pack is damaged or disabled. It powers the hazard lights, airbags, door locking and unlocking operations, as well as other critical components. The 12V battery also ensures that electronics are “awake” and listening to the keyfob in order to automatically lock and unlock the vehicle based on proximity. It also allows the car to maintain its cellular connection for remote access when the rest of the vehicle is powered off. If the 12V battery happens to fail, it will isolate the main battery pack from the car and prevent charging. This is a safety feature designed to help protect first responders in the event of an accident. 

[pop pop]

Friend told me today it cost 250.00 to renew tags in TN now. That is how they are recouping the gas tax money. There is also a fire danger to the batteries. I see them on the side of the road "some times" while traveling in our RV. Also see older cars also, but not newer ones. Me, not interested in an EV. 

[bersaguy]

Ok, so they have figured out how to offset the gas tax issue. so what are they doing with the money cause Tennessee roads are in terrible shape???? 

[Alleycat72]

I still think hydrogen powered cars are the way to go. 

[Garufa]

I saw a Lucid being towed from the parking garage today downtown where I park.  Have no idea why but that car has a reserved spot, as do many others, but the owner of this particular car managed to have a Lucid charger installed in this semi-public garage.

Those cars start at around  $75-85k I think.  Usually over $100k.