What to buy what to buy.... M1A?

[FireMedic]

Good evening, 

I find myself in a rare quandary and I am hoping you enlightened folks on here may be able to provide some advice. I have a gentlemens agreement with my mrs where gun money stays gun money but I cannot pull funds from the family bank account to purchase more guns. I have recently parted way with a few that I was either A- bored with or B-didn't feel comfortable carrying/ hadn't taken to the range in a while. I actually have found myself with money in my pocket but no real burning desire on what to invest in next. I was hoping for some recommendations from you enlightened folks. I would like to keep to already established calibers just for ammo and simplicity sake. Those are- 9mm, 45ACP, 300BO, .223/5.56, 308 Win, and 12 gauge. I only have 1 of each of the rifle calibers so I was thinking that direction but I'm surprisingly "meh" on yet another another AR. The Springfield M1A is interesting as is a Galil Ace but I wanted to see if y'all had any recommendations before I just "meh"d into something. Budget is roughly $1,300 and yes I do have some fun DeadAir products so I already have that train of thought covered.

[Garufa]

https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-scout-squad-rifles/m1a-scout-squad-308-rifle/

This is what you need.  Save up some more cause they’ve gone crazy with prices.  There’s a plastic stock version as well but it’s not much cheaper.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Garufa

[Scotty]

I like how you worded this post. Mrs and I have a similar agreement. She doesn’t touch my packages because they’re heavy, I don’t complain about Amazon showing up. Unspken agreement is she gets a night out and a decent meal for a new purchase. 
 

Threads like these are what I like about this site. Looking forward to hearing others opinions and gaining some insight. 

[Moped]

The M1A is a great rifle, but if I were to buy something like that, I'd be mighty tempted to add another caliber and buy a M1 Garand along with a bunch of ammunition and clips for it (it'd be about the same cost). For me, those just have a lot more history and pizzazz than the M1A.

I use to shoot NM M14s for the Army in competition, and if they're built for right, they're super fun! But if it's just a run of the meal M1A. it's just another AR or AK rifle, just heavier. And to me, anymore, those are just meh too.

[Snaveba]

I’m thinking a lot if us have that agreement with our wives. If I have a little extra after a sale/purchase, I do try to spend a little on her for the brownie points. 

I would say to pick up a lever gun, but that may be a rabbit hole you don’t want to fall into.

(anyone have a lever gun in Marlin 444 they are looking to part ways with?)

[Chucktshoes]

I used to talk mad crap about the M-14 platform for all of its technical failings until I held one in my hand and shouldered it. They just feel good and are aesthetic as hell. Doesn’t matter that every single one of the Cold War era battle rifles are technically superior, I fricken love the damn thing. 

[Moped]

13 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

I’m thinking a lot if us have that agreement with our wives. If I have a little extra after a sale/purchase, I do try to spend a little on her for the brownie points. 

I would say to pick up a lever gun, but that may be a rabbit hole you don’t want to fall into.

(anyone have a lever gun in Marlin 444 they are looking to part ways with?)

If anyone knows about that rabbit hole, it's you!

[Snaveba]

12 minutes ago, Moped said:

If anyone knows about that rabbit hole, it's you!

That’s the freaking truth

[LEANDER]

Man, tough call.  I love my MBRs.  Having owned multiple M1As, FALs, a SCAR-17 and even a Galil ACE Gen 1 308 rifle, it's hard not to love the M1A.  I pick the SCAR-17 as my "you can only have one" for its modern design but I still have so much love for the others.  Hope this helps:

1) The M1A.  Fantastic guns.  Superior accuracy, in my opinion, even with the chunky XS night sight of the SOCOM variants.  I have a Tanker in a wooden stock with a NM trigger pack, Sadlak oversized mag release, and at least one 25-round mag.  The gun is handy, loud and hammers steel at 400-500 yards with authority.  If I had it to do over again, I would've gotten the Scout Squad variant.  It balances better, despite being longer.  My only gripe with them is the same with the AK: rock-in magazines suck under stress (and are expensive, though the 25-rounders DO work) and it's hard to put an optic or light on them.  I love the safety system and honestly think people who complain about it are juggling an extra chromosome.  So if you're going to go irons-only with no light and no fuss, the accuracy of the M1As is tough to beat.

2) The Galil ACE.  The AK's big brother in modern format.  I have a Gen 1 with an ACOG on it and we beat the steel at 600 yards with ball ammo.  While not as accurate as the M1A, its folding stock and polymer frame make it handier (though the stock is a bitch to fold until it breaks in).  Magpul mags means it's not as expensive as the M1A to load up and I never found mine picky on any type of ammo.  It's easy to mount an optic and accessorize as you would a modern gun.  The built in night-sights on the irons are a nice touch too.  But you'll need that cheek riser it comes with if you want to run an optic.  It's cheap plastic that clamshells over the stock but it comes in handy.  Don't lose it.  It's a great design in most regards: a suped-up AK with a port-side charging handle, easy to glass, mags insert like an AR, ambi fire controls, plenty of pic space to hang your coffee grinder and fax machine off of.  Downside is it feels a little cheap (Israeli-express, baby, gotta save those shekels) and it has a tall profile, so if your optic goes down, you'll be yanking that cheek riser off along with your ACOG to utilize those iron sights.  It also has none of the traditional flare and nostalgia of the other MBRs, which traditionally came out of the Cold War (FAL, M1A, G3, etc).  It holds no special place in my heart but I have no major complaints about it.  A totally serviceable weapon.  If you find one at a decent price and you don't mind the lack of legacy to its design, you won't be disappointed.  (I knew a former Fifth Group guy who carried the 12.5" pistol variant in his truck...but he was kind of a coke monkey).

3) The FAL.  I've been an FAL fag for over a decade now.  I've had a few and loved them, from the StG-58 to the all-Imbel M444 and even the little DSA Micro.  They're my favorite traditional MBR.  A nice blend of M1A execute authority and AR-15 ergonomics.  Plus, long live Rhodesia.  The history and reliability of those guns cannot be argued against.  The adjustable gas system is nice (though I never had any issues with the self-regulating systems of the M1A or Galil).  It's an older design that's not as beefy, so I try not to run anything heavier than 168gr OTM out of them, but it's a battle rifle.  The only time you run into that issue is when you are hunting (which you probably won't be, so who cares).  The rocker style mag reload is easier than the M1A but still not as good as the SCAR-17 and Galil's straight insert.  It's easier to mount optics but you can't cheap out; they DO beat their glass up in recoil.  I had a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10 MIL-DOT on mine and I never should have sold that glass (if anyone has one they want to part with, hit me up LOL).  I have an old TRILUX on my M444 just for nostalgia kicks and it actually works really well.  Who knew?  Magazines are cheaper than the M1A but it's not as accurate.  But it depends on what you're wanting to do with it.  It'll still hit a man-sized target at 600 yards.  We have to think practically about what we are using these things for, even in a SHTF/Wolverines scenario.  Truth be told, pretty much no one here is ever going to be using their battle rifles past 300 yards, even in the apocalypse.  We get hung up on this kind of thing and it robs us of having great experiences with perfectly great weapons systems.  So yeah, the FAL is cool and with DSA, you're in no danger of not having access to parts.  Plus, their 30-round magazines work REALLY well.  I have four.

4) The SCAR-17.  Brothers, I hate to say it because it'll make me look like a basic bro but, if I could only have two guns, they would be a Glock 19 and a SCAR-17.  It galls me to admit it, having had so much love for the FAL both as a symbol and as a gun over the years, but the SCAR is half the weight and half the recoil.  Straight insert mags (you can even repurpose FAL mags, if you're daring), easy to mount optics and lights and foregrips, not picky on its ammo, and every bit as accurate as the Galil ACE and FAL.  The M1A might have it beat, but you'd have to put glass on it to tell.  The SCAR is not perfect; its polymer frame and stock might not put up with your extreme/deliberate abuse and the mags are pricy.  But the system runs.  We ran a rifle course at this outdoor range a few months ago (lots of moving and shooting, shoot/no-shoot targets, paper and steel...it was complex) and one of the clients brought a SCAR-17.  I was amazed at how fast you can be with those, even with an ACOG and working inside 30 yards.  It's a ton more money, I know, but you can't go wrong, even with a used one.

So yeah, the Galil ACE is well within your budget but it holds no place in most people's hearts as it's not a legacy traditional Cold War era battle rifle with that nostalgic "old school cool factor".  But the sucker works.  The M1A Scout Squad is the best bang for the buck, just know it'll take work putting glass on it and adding any lights or foregrips one might typically use in a general purpose setup.  The FALs are awesome but they're picky on glass and, frankly, outclassed by the SCAR-17's evolution (though they are roughly 2/3 the cost).

Punchin' out,
J

[Grayfox54]

I'm a huge fan of both the M1 Garand and the M1A. I've got 2 Garands and 4 M1As. 

The M1A is my choice for a main battle rifle. And I agree with Garufa that the Scout Squad is the best all around choice. The 18" barrel is the perfect compromise between power and handling. Be aware that the plain stock versions aren't target guns. They were designed for combat. Most will shoot 2-3" at 100 yards. Plenty good enough for hunting or combat. For a real tack driver ya gotta spend big bucks. 

However, the M1 Garand is just pure class. A true piece of history. Your best bet for that is CMP. Yeah, a few hoops to jump through, but you get a completely serviceable rifle at a good price. A pure joy to shoot. 

The down side with the M1 is that you shouldn't shoot commercial hunting ammo in it. Too much pressure. And the supply of good Mil-surp ammo is drying up. However, there are modern commercial loads just for the Garand. 

[Erich]

American wood an steel roots run deep!  With that some bias may result. I have 2 Garands, 1 M1A, and 3 Galil's.

The Garand goes without saying for any American citizen calling themselves a gun enthusiast.  My thoughts on the other 2.

I have been enamored with the M14 platform since I was a child. Of the 3, its the one I still love to look at the most. Its the one I want to like the most. Its the one I've put the most time and energy into from chasing NOS parts to diving into the Sage EBR world. After having 5 of them (all full length), it pains me to put it 3rd among the 3, not to mention the risk of being banned.    

They are great to hold, I got some good accuracy out of the EBR, but with ball (which is my base since that is what a MBR would typically be using) I found them to be just OK. IMO is they can be finicky with ammo, which lowers it on my list. Specifically cycling with lower power 308 or when they start to run dry/dirty. For me, ammo agnostic is my number 1 MBR requirements. I sold 3 in CA, sold 1 here to another member. I kept my new unfired M1A National Match, because not having something M14 based seems un-American. Plus the fact I have stacks of GI mags, stocks, and parts. But 12 years later, it still sits unfired in the back of the safe. I watched the Bula development, but lost interest when some other 308 offerings came out. Springfield did come out with more interesting versions / updated chassis later. I have considered getting one of the shorter CQB versions, just never got around to it.

Galil. When someone asked what is the most reliable MBR, you'd be pretty hard pressed and be reaching for reasons it is not the AK. A modernized one that charges on the CORRECT side for 90% of the population....nuff said. While Bula did come out with what they call "a left handed version" (so wrong!) later on,  Galil and Czechpoint beat em to it.

I got both the x51 and x39 Gen 1's when they came out. All the good bits Leander mentioned. I like the ergos, and my particular 308 out-shot  3 of my M1A's with ball, about equal with the EBR.  BUT it didn't give a squirt what ammo you threw it it. It would throw the brass from low power brass almost as far without a hiccup. They are over gassed, pretty typical for an AK. People at the range 15 feet away will give you nasty looks for fling hot brass at them. I personally dont think the package feels cheap, but that is a bit subjective. The factory rail covers do have some movement, but I personally dont have a problem with the polymer lower portion of the receiver.  I enjoyed by Gen 1 enough that I picked up a Gen II in 308. IMO opinion these are highly underrated here.

FWIW, the right choice is to get both. Life is short, you NEED both!

 

[FireMedic]

6 hours ago, Snaveba said:

I’m thinking a lot if us have that agreement with our wives. If I have a little extra after a sale/purchase, I do try to spend a little on her for the brownie points. 

I would say to pick up a lever gun, but that may be a rabbit hole you don’t want to fall into.

(anyone have a lever gun in Marlin 444 they are looking to part ways with?)

I used to have a little lever 30-30 and I kinda regret selling it. Only thing is I'd hate to get another caliber and go through the expense of stockpiling another 1,000+ rounds of that. 

[Choatecav]

My vote is that you get the M1 Garand via CMP for all of the reasons listed above plus a few hundred more.  

When Gen. George Patton calls it, "The greatest battle implement ever devised"  then you need to own one. Plus, you will get to hear the "tink." 

[FireMedic]

4 hours ago, LEANDER said:

Man, tough call.  I love my MBRs.  Having owned multiple M1As, FALs, a SCAR-17 and even a Galil ACE Gen 1 308 rifle, it's hard not to love the M1A.  I pick the SCAR-17 as my "you can only have one" for its modern design but I still have so much love for the others.  Hope this helps:

1) The M1A.  Fantastic guns.  Superior accuracy, in my opinion, even with the chunky XS night sight of the SOCOM variants.  I have a Tanker in a wooden stock with a NM trigger pack, Sadlak oversized mag release, and at least one 25-round mag.  The gun is handy, loud and hammers steel at 400-500 yards with authority.  If I had it to do over again, I would've gotten the Scout Squad variant.  It balances better, despite being longer.  My only gripe with them is the same with the AK: rock-in magazines suck under stress (and are expensive, though the 25-rounders DO work) and it's hard to put an optic or light on them.  I love the safety system and honestly think people who complain about it are juggling an extra chromosome.  So if you're going to go irons-only with no light and no fuss, the accuracy of the M1As is tough to beat.

2) The Galil ACE.  The AK's big brother in modern format.  I have a Gen 1 with an ACOG on it and we beat the steel at 600 yards with ball ammo.  While not as accurate as the M1A, its folding stock and polymer frame make it handier (though the stock is a bitch to fold until it breaks in).  Magpul mags means it's not as expensive as the M1A to load up and I never found mine picky on any type of ammo.  It's easy to mount an optic and accessorize as you would a modern gun.  The built in night-sights on the irons are a nice touch too.  But you'll need that cheek riser it comes with if you want to run an optic.  It's cheap plastic that clamshells over the stock but it comes in handy.  Don't lose it.  It's a great design in most regards: a suped-up AK with a port-side charging handle, easy to glass, mags insert like an AR, ambi fire controls, plenty of pic space to hang your coffee grinder and fax machine off of.  Downside is it feels a little cheap (Israeli-express, baby, gotta save those shekels) and it has a tall profile, so if your optic goes down, you'll be yanking that cheek riser off along with your ACOG to utilize those iron sights.  It also has none of the traditional flare and nostalgia of the other MBRs, which traditionally came out of the Cold War (FAL, M1A, G3, etc).  It holds no special place in my heart but I have no major complaints about it.  A totally serviceable weapon.  If you find one at a decent price and you don't mind the lack of legacy to its design, you won't be disappointed.  (I knew a former Fifth Group guy who carried the 12.5" pistol variant in his truck...but he was kind of a coke monkey).

3) The FAL.  I've been an FAL fag for over a decade now.  I've had a few and loved them, from the StG-58 to the all-Imbel M444 and even the little DSA Micro.  They're my favorite traditional MBR.  A nice blend of M1A execute authority and AR-15 ergonomics.  Plus, long live Rhodesia.  The history and reliability of those guns cannot be argued against.  The adjustable gas system is nice (though I never had any issues with the self-regulating systems of the M1A or Galil).  It's an older design that's not as beefy, so I try not to run anything heavier than 168gr OTM out of them, but it's a battle rifle.  The only time you run into that issue is when you are hunting (which you probably won't be, so who cares).  The rocker style mag reload is easier than the M1A but still not as good as the SCAR-17 and Galil's straight insert.  It's easier to mount optics but you can't cheap out; they DO beat their glass up in recoil.  I had a Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10 MIL-DOT on mine and I never should have sold that glass (if anyone has one they want to part with, hit me up LOL).  I have an old TRILUX on my M444 just for nostalgia kicks and it actually works really well.  Who knew?  Magazines are cheaper than the M1A but it's not as accurate.  But it depends on what you're wanting to do with it.  It'll still hit a man-sized target at 600 yards.  We have to think practically about what we are using these things for, even in a SHTF/Wolverines scenario.  Truth be told, pretty much no one here is ever going to be using their battle rifles past 300 yards, even in the apocalypse.  We get hung up on this kind of thing and it robs us of having great experiences with perfectly great weapons systems.  So yeah, the FAL is cool and with DSA, you're in no danger of not having access to parts.  Plus, their 30-round magazines work REALLY well.  I have four.

4) The SCAR-17.  Brothers, I hate to say it because it'll make me look like a basic bro but, if I could only have two guns, they would be a Glock 19 and a SCAR-17.  It galls me to admit it, having had so much love for the FAL both as a symbol and as a gun over the years, but the SCAR is half the weight and half the recoil.  Straight insert mags (you can even repurpose FAL mags, if you're daring), easy to mount optics and lights and foregrips, not picky on its ammo, and every bit as accurate as the Galil ACE and FAL.  The M1A might have it beat, but you'd have to put glass on it to tell.  The SCAR is not perfect; its polymer frame and stock might not put up with your extreme/deliberate abuse and the mags are pricy.  But the system runs.  We ran a rifle course at this outdoor range a few months ago (lots of moving and shooting, shoot/no-shoot targets, paper and steel...it was complex) and one of the clients brought a SCAR-17.  I was amazed at how fast you can be with those, even with an ACOG and working inside 30 yards.  It's a ton more money, I know, but you can't go wrong, even with a used one.

So yeah, the Galil ACE is well within your budget but it holds no place in most people's hearts as it's not a legacy traditional Cold War era battle rifle with that nostalgic "old school cool factor".  But the sucker works.  The M1A Scout Squad is the best bang for the buck, just know it'll take work putting glass on it and adding any lights or foregrips one might typically use in a general purpose setup.  The FALs are awesome but they're picky on glass and, frankly, outclassed by the SCAR-17's evolution (though they are roughly 2/3 the cost).

Punchin' out,
J

Man I appreciate all the detail in there. Actually really helpful. I was forgetting those FALs. For your galil you said Gen one but not caliber? You sticking with that 308 Nato goodness?

[FireMedic]

1 minute ago, Choatecav said:

My vote is that you get the M1 Garand via CMP for all of the reasons listed above plus a few hundred more.  

When Gen. George Patton calls it, "The greatest battle implement ever devised"  then you need to own one. Plus, you will get to hear the "tink." 

 

4 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm a huge fan of both the M1 Garand and the M1A. I've got 2 Garands and 4 M1As. 

The M1A is my choice for a main battle rifle. And I agree with Garufa that the Scout Squad is the best all around choice. The 18" barrel is the perfect compromise between power and handling. Be aware that the plain stock versions aren't target guns. They were designed for combat. Most will shoot 2-3" at 100 yards. Plenty good enough for hunting or combat. For a real tack driver ya gotta spend big bucks. 

However, the M1 Garand is just pure class. A true piece of history. Your best bet for that is CMP. Yeah, a few hoops to jump through, but you get a completely serviceable rifle at a good price. A pure joy to shoot. 

The down side with the M1 is that you shouldn't shoot commercial hunting ammo in it. Too much pressure. And the supply of good Mil-surp ammo is drying up. However, there are modern commercial loads just for the Garand. 

If the Garand is finicky about the ammo why not get the M1A instead? Just the pure nostalgia? I mean don't get me wrong. I am a history nerd. But I do not have the funds for safe queens. any gun I purchased is used (hunting, training, home defense, etc) or sold. 

[FireMedic]

Also open to nonMBR suggestions. For example, I am thinking of a CMMG Banshee in 45ACP as a serious option.

[Choatecav]

2 hours ago, FireMedic said:

 

If the Garand is finicky about the ammo why not get the M1A instead? Just the pure nostalgia? I mean don't get me wrong. I am a history nerd. But I do not have the funds for safe queens. any gun I purchased is used (hunting, training, home defense, etc) or sold. 

You really should shoot and handle them both.  I have shot hundreds of rounds though my Garand with nary a problem so I am not sure where the "finicky" portion comes from.  It is built for a lower pressured 30-06 round but not a problem getting them and it is a hoss for any of the things that you mention above.  Not a thing wrong with the M1A but the Garand is just special. 

In the end...... get what you want.

[Grayfox54]

2 hours ago, FireMedic said:

If the Garand is finicky about the ammo why not get the M1A instead?

No reason not to. The M1A is a fine rifle. I love mine. 

The Grand is just special. A piece of history and a pure joy to shoot. You have to understand that the Garand was designed in the 1930s. .30-06 ammo has come a long ways since then. Modern hunting ammo runs at pressures the Garand was never designed for. As I said, several makers do make modern ammo specifically for the Garand.  Ammo is out there. 

[LEANDER]

9 hours ago, FireMedic said:

Man I appreciate all the detail in there. Actually really helpful. I was forgetting those FALs. For your galil you said Gen one but not caliber? You sticking with that 308 Nato goodness?

Yes!  Sorry, it's .308.  I ran 147gr NATO FMJ and 168gr Federal Premium Gold Metal Match only through my MBRs.  The 168gr is my go-to precision round but it brutalized silhouette steel targets at 400-500 yards.  My shooting buddy was able to push it out to 600.

[LEANDER]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:02 PM, FireMedic said:

Man I appreciate all the detail in there. Actually really helpful. I was forgetting those FALs. For your galil you said Gen one but not caliber? You sticking with that 308 Nato goodness?

Yes!  I'm sorry for not seeing this until now.  All the rifles I mentioned were chambered in .308, including the Gen 1 Galil ACE (technically called the SAR, I believe).

FWIW, I do have a Galil ACE pistol (Gen 2) in 7.62x39 and I believe that may be the apex predator of the AK variant families, as it has ambi controls, port-side charging handle, modern mounting features right out of the box, and you're not losing a ton of muzzle velocity with that short 8.25" barrel with the x39 cartridge (since it has fast-burning powder).  But I digress.  Hopefully you've found something by now but, if not, you really can't go wrong.  It just depends on what you want to do with it and your budget.

[RED333]

I will leave this here, I have one, great rifle, can be made to shoot SEMI and Single shot.

https://fnamerica.com/products/discontinued-products/fnar-standard/

[Darrell]

OK, I'm going to go off-topic here because the talk of the M14 reminded me of a story. I worked at a Naval shipyard in Washington, and after 9-11 the ships posted guards while tied up at the piers. Women are serving on aircraft carriers, and one night I saw a young woman who probably stood about 4'11" in her boots standing watch with an M14 slung over her shoulder. The muzzle was above the crown of her head, and the butt was darn-near dragging the ground. She probably wondered what tickled me to the point of laughing out loud, but I just couldn't image that she'd have been able to shoulder that rifle and put an accurate round down range.

[DO-TN]

Talk of M1A/M14 rifles. Chalk this up to a lesson I know but ignored, buy it when you see it. Do not hesitate. Damn it. LOL

Want an M1A for a while, saw a slightly used one in Murfreesboro this last week for $1400. Mulled it over, decided I best chat with the house boss before buying it. By the time I wore her down on Thursday evening and went on Friday to grab it, it was gone!

$%^#@$!!!!!!!

Better to buy her flowers and grovel at her feet while pulling house slave duty all weekend than to let one get away.

As for the Garand, there is a gas plug you can put in that will allow it to safely run commercial hunting ammo without worrying about bending the op rod. They make fine deer rifles if you are tough enough to tote it through the woods all day.

[gregintenn]

On 4/30/2023 at 1:59 PM, FireMedic said:

I used to have a little lever 30-30 and I kinda regret selling it. Only thing is I'd hate to get another caliber and go through the expense of stockpiling another 1,000+ rounds of that. 

They actually chambered some Garands in 308.

[GS455]

Was a decision or purchase ever made?

 

I don't think the OP really provide enough information on his interest or use of rifles. Personally, I'm a collector of 20th century battle rifles and stand by a lot of the 308 MBR details shared above. Having all mentioned above I would also include from my collection the suggestions of a PTR 91 and any variant of an AR10.  Mine's a Rock River LAR8 Elite Operator. And it's probably the only 308 MBR type rifle I have that beats my M1A.

On another topic, and within your budget range, I would strongly suggest a Ruger Precision Rifle in 308.  The thing is a tack driver right out of the box. It's one of the few non milsurp rifles I own and I love it to death.  Just have to slap a quality high mag optic on it and you're ready for competition level shooting.  My wife got me one for Christmas a few years ago and it's probably the best Christmas present I ever got since my Apollo 5 speed when I was 12 years old.

Edited July 12, 2023 by GS455
voice to text corrections