SBR vs. Bullpup

[poak]

So, I've got an AR w/ a 16" barrel, but I've been craving something even more compact...

I love the AR platform, but hate silly $200 taxes... I also like the fact that I can build it Johnny Cash style (one piece at a time), which would be a benefit since my employment situation is sporadic right now.

I like the "cool factor" of a bullpup, but I don't like the retail price, or horror stories I've heard about typical bullpup triggers...

I could probably put an SBR'd AR together for cheaper than I could pick up either of the bullpups I would consider (FS2000, MSAR), so let's hear some opinions.

[Smith]

I've been thinking about this too and if I had the money I would go with the MSAR.

[Guest jwp]

Unless you're going to be climbing through a lot of small spaces there is really no reason to give up the accuracy and sight picture of a 20" rifle.

[Paletiger13]

MSAR's are nice, trigger not too bad either for a bull-pup. FS2000 is just too bulky for me.

[dunndw]

I'm waiting for the MSAR STG 556 E4 model that is reported to use AR mags.

I think that would be the best of both worlds without the 200.00 mommy may I fee to the feds

[poak]

Unless you're going to be climbing through a lot of small spaces there is really no reason to give up the accuracy and sight picture of a 20" rifle.

Well, it'll be highly effective for taking out zombies coming from both directions when I'm in a tight corridor... and it'll look awesome

The improved balance of an SBR appeals to me.

MSAR's are nice, trigger not too bad either for a bull-pup. FS2000 is just too bulky for me.

Good to know. You've owned both, correct? I'm a little surprised you didn't mention "the T-word"

I'm waiting for the MSAR STG 556 E4 model that is reported to use AR mags.

I think that would be the best of both worlds without the 200.00 mommy may I fee to the feds

I wasn't familiar w/ the purported E4 model, but that sounds awesome! I'd love to be able to use my current mag stash interchangeably.

[Guest NotDylan]

Not a fan what-so-ever of Microtech and the guy who runs it. With the AR, you know you've got support, parts are easy to find, mags are plentiful (or at least they were ), and it's cheaper to boot.

[Smith]

BTW Steyr's AUG is going to be available again shortly.... maybe Steyr Mannlicher US: Steyrarms.com

[Magiccarpetrides]

any word on the Aug's price?

[Smith]

I haven't heard, but i have read that the MSAR is better due to the improvements they made. Shotgun News had a nice article on them in the last issue.

[Guest Halfpint]

Voting for the SBR . . . my reasons:

1. Balance and light weight compared to full-length rifles.

2. Ability to build it piece-by-piece after the stamp.

3. Obvious parts availability in case something breaks.

4. Maneuverability, "just in case" you need something shorter than a carbine.

5. Because you can, and it pisses hippies, liberals, and the administration off.

[nightrunner]

i voted for the FS2000, but the only reason i didnt vote for the SBR'd AR is the tax stamp( not price but paperwork and inconvenience) and unavailability other than that, it would be SBR all the way.

the MSAR is just hideous IMO

[Smith]

IMO an SBR'd AR is taking all of the worst features of the AR and degrading them more and upping your cost by $200.

[Paletiger13]

Well, it'll be highly effective for taking out zombies coming from both directions when I'm in a tight corridor... and it'll look awesome

The improved balance of an SBR appeals to me.

Good to know. You've owned both, correct? I'm a little surprised you didn't mention "the T-word"

I wasn't familiar w/ the purported E4 model, but that sounds awesome! I'd love to be able to use my current mag stash interchangeably.

I have owned both, the FN FS2000 was actually overall longer than the MSAR. The MSAR's trigger is way lighter than the FN's and because of the design of the MSAR's barrel seemed to be more accurate than the FN's.

I'm not even going to mention the "T" word because of the depression it will cause me. LOL

Compared to the SBR'ing the price could go either way. Wish I'd kept my MSAR

[RWF]

SBR, because of you can but it a piece at a time if you wish but if tomorrow you want to shoot a 20" gun just swap out the upper. i keep a copy of my stamp in the battery compartment so the lower never leaves home without it.

[Guest 70below]

Anybody heard anything new on the Kel-Tec RFB? Last thing on their website was that it would be shipped the last week of February. I'd vote for it if the category was on the poll

[Guest justme]

So, I've got an AR w/ a 16" barrel, but I've been craving something even more compact...

I love the AR platform, but hate silly $200 taxes... I also like the fact that I can build it Johnny Cash style (one piece at a time), which would be a benefit since my employment situation is sporadic right now.

I like the "cool factor" of a bullpup, but I don't like the retail price, or horror stories I've heard about typical bullpup triggers...

I could probably put an SBR'd AR together for cheaper than I could pick up either of the bullpups I would consider (FS2000, MSAR), so let's hear some opinions.

Depends on what you want it for--if you want something like that for home defense/close defense you might consider something along the lines of the FS2000--it's weird as all get out, but its subcompact and good or maneuvering through tight corners. The only draw back to this gun is the price--like $2200, which is like YIKES....OR you could go with an AK...

[TGO David]

Hero Gear and The Outpost both have had MSARs in stock lately. I was playing with one at The Outpost just this past weekend. Honestly, I'm not big on it at all and I think I recall someone (maybe Joe @ Hero Gear) saying that you were essentially getting a really expensive knife and a free bullpup thrown in.

[TGO David]

IMO an SBR'd AR is taking all of the worst features of the AR and degrading them more and upping your cost by $200.

That's possibly one of the most idiotic statements I've read about a short barreled AR in ... well ... ever. Have you owned one? Fired one?

[Paletiger13]

With a bullpup you can have that 20" barrel and still be shorter than an ARw/20" barrel. I personally would go with the bullpup cause I'm short anyway. Now if you already have an AR, just SBR it and save yourself some money compared to buying a bullpup. Now if a "T" lol was to come out tommorrow, I'd be getting rid of alot of toys really quick.

[Guest Mugster]

Unless you're going to be climbing through a lot of small spaces there is really no reason to give up the accuracy and sight picture of a 20" rifle.

+1

Or the smoother gas system. Plus they are quieter.

[Paletiger13]

Bullpup = long barrel, short overall length, and very precise with that (long barrel)by the way. Some people are just old fashioned and prefer the standard of an M-16 or M-4, compared to the battle proven design of the Austrian type bullpup(AUG) which you can change the barrel out in seconds. Gawd I miss my MSAR now. Thanks alot fellas LOL

Man, go with what your heart desires. If you get a MSAR and don't like it I'll buy or trade you a M1 carbine and an AK-74 w/2,900 rnds of 5.45x39mm ammo.

[Guest CK1]

i'd say MSAR (or new Steyr AUG, haven't seen one yet, but bet they'll be more expensive, not sure if better built... i'm holding out to make my decision...).

that said, the microtech knives i've had have always been top quality and it's hard to resist grabbing up an MSAR every time i've handled/fired one.

to me the bullpup design feels so much more modern, ergonomic and functional compared to any garden variety AR. of course with that said, you can almost find AR parts at wally mart... and really these are range toys for playing rambo, so guess either is pretty cool...

[Guest m4coyote]

I own the FS2000, so I voted for it. Several gun rags have proven the FS to shoot sub minute of angle groups. I have yet to see that kind of accuracy report for the MSAR. The FS uses standard AR 30 round mags (except for P Mags), and is absurdly easy to field strip.

A little bit of use and some powdered graphite results in a much better trigger, but it still does not compare with a nice AR unit. There are several 16" and 20" AR's in the safe, but the FS is the one that I enjoy the most. It is an extremely quick handling unit with the Eotech 512, and is a joy to shoot.

That being said, I have not fired an MSAR, but would like to give one a go. Microtech products have beautiful attention to detail, and the MSAR is no exception. I feel that the MSAR is a better looking weapon than the FS, but the FS performance will be hard to beat.

The AR SBR has the advantage of easily obtainable parts, and there is almost no limit as to what can be created. The only thing that keeps me from building an SBR is the albatross tax stamp. Not the $200.00 fee, but the red tape involved in being able to sell it if the need arises. A 16" rifle can be sold easily, but once an SBR is purchased and registered, most people tend to be stuck with them. I am also not very impressed with 5.56 ballistics when the round is used in the really short barrels.

The choice is yours, and they all are fun, but the extra hassle of red tape surrounding an SBR is the only thing that keeps me away from them.

[LA_357SIG]

SBR, because of you can but it a piece at a time if you wish but if tomorrow you want to shoot a 20" gun just swap out the upper. i keep a copy of my stamp in the battery compartment so the lower never leaves home without it.

Just want to say that with the AUG platform you can start out with a 16" barrel and be only 2" longer than a (10.5") SBR'd AR with the stock collapsed, a 20" and be shorter than a 16" AR collapsed and get a 24" AUG barrel and be roughly the same length as a 16" AR extended. Barrel swaps are tres facile.

Edited January 21, 2010 by LA_357SIG