Proof that “Thank you for your service” is just lip service.

[Links2k]

 I don’t believe it will come to this, but the fact it’s even being considered after decades of war pisses me off. 
https://www.va.gov/OPA/PRESSREL/pressrelease.cfm?id=5874

 

[Darrell]

Hmmm, I've seen VA benefits increase quite a bit since I got out of the Corps, and with the budget crisis I think that it makes sense for every part of government to accept some cuts. 22% seems a lot, though. 

Doesn't it seem strange that a government agency, the VA, would publish a press release like that?  It does to me. I would think that government agencies would follow guidance from congress without taking their individual cases to the people. That release seems calculated to stir up the vets, doesn't it? The VA, the Army, the IRS, the DNR etc. are not supposed to try to influence policy, they should follow it. (I know that's complicated.) 

But the fact is, somebody is going to have to make some tough budgetary decisions. We simply cannot keep on spending ourselves into a deeper and deeper hole. But, man!, it isn't easy to do. I ran a group of about 100 people as a Navy civilian before I retired. I can't begin to write an account here of how hard it was to try to reign in spending. People wanted their overtime, and would go to great lengths to assure themselves of it. There's a LOT of fat that could be trimmed from the federal budget.

And by the way, I am always embarrassed when someone thanks me for my service. I think I got by far the best of the trade for my time in the Corps. I learned a trade that carried me throughout my entire career, got GI bill benefits, and got preferential hiring for my civilian Navy job. I've been thanked enough.  

The nation absolutely owes a lot to vets who were wounded in combat, and I'm glad they get the benefits they do. But I do have a bit of an issue with paying lifetime benefits to someone who was injured playing basketball during their off-duty hours. 

[Grunt67]

As a combat wounded 'Nam Vet, I waited 40+ years before someone thanked me for my service. It took awhile to get used to that, but now I'm grateful to hear it. Even little kids. Shows it came from the parents.

Am I surprised by any cuts the Feds make? Not in the least!

[Chucktshoes]

45 minutes ago, Darrell said:

Hmmm, I've seen VA benefits increase quite a bit since I got out of the Corps, and with the budget crisis I think that it makes sense for every part of government to accept some cuts. 22% seems a lot, though. 

Doesn't it seem strange that a government agency, the VA, would publish a press release like that?  It does to me. I would think that government agencies would follow guidance from congress without taking their individual cases to the people. That release seems calculated to stir up the vets, doesn't it? The VA, the Army, the IRS, the DNR etc. are not supposed to try to influence policy, they should follow it. (I know that's complicated.) 

 

Bingo. This is a political act made for political purposes. 

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, Darrell said:

I've been thanked enough.  

I agree with this statement. Hearing it always feels weird, and I don’t need to be thanked for volunteering. 
 

As you know, when we signed on that line, we took an oath to put everything on the line In defense of our country. In return, the government guaranteed us that we and our families would be taken care of if we were injured or killed. 
 

Our government already wants to keeps citizens poor and mostly ignorant to continue to fill the ranks of the military on a volunteer basis, as well as working low wage jobs. The government would eventually have to return to the draft to fill its ranks if they also develop a reputation worst than they already have if youngsters see that the government actually taking care of veterans is a myth. 
 

This is my not in my backyard moment. I know the government needs to make cuts, but I’d suggest looking at all of the foreign aid we dish out first.  That’s another issue for me, because I know in many cases foreign aid is strategically necessary to our national security. 
 

Oh well, as usual, I don’t have the answers.  It’s just concerning for me when I think about all of the injured young warriors who probably won’t get the benefits they’ve earned. 

[Links2k]

55 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Bingo. This is a political act made for political purposes. 

I totally agree, and as another member mentioned, it’s seems odd. Secondly, it’s a political issue that shouldn’t be. 
 

Service members are held accountable by their oath and the UCMJ when necessary. Who’s really going to hold Congress accountable?  History has shown they’re not being held accountable by voting. 
 

 

[BigK]

11 minutes ago, Links2k said:

I know the government needs to make cuts, but I’d suggest looking at all of the foreign aid we dish out first.  That’s another issue for me, because I know in many cases foreign aid is strategically necessary to our national security. 

Like you said, foreign aid is tricky, but there's obvious fat to trim in some areas. There's a lot of other places we should look to trim too, like bloated benefits for politicians and bureaucrats and many other wastes.

[Links2k]

2 hours ago, Darrell said:

Doesn't it seem strange that a government agency, the VA, would publish a press release like that?  

The nation absolutely owes a lot to vets who were wounded in combat, and I'm glad they get the benefits they do. But I do have a bit of an issue with paying lifetime benefits to someone who was injured playing basketball during their off-duty hours. 

1. Very strange!

2. I don’t know if you have a VA rating or not, but they’re not handing out the big money ratings like candy.  Veterans have to work much harder than they should have to, just to get earned benefits. Look no farther than some Vietnam veterans with agent orange claims finally getting settled in the last decade and the recent burn pit & airborne hazards laws. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Links2k

[BigK]

Our country is not perfect by any means, but not living up to what we owe our vets is a VERY sore point for me. 

[MacGyver]

So, I'm going to briefly veer into the political just to back everyone off the cliff a bit.

Bottom Line Up Front - there's a *ZERO* percent chance this becomes law.

So now the details - roughly from memory - I can source it if people are interested.  

These proposed "cuts" are part of Kevin McCarthy's bill last week to use as a part of the negotiation in raising the debt ceiling. It calls for a $130B cut to non-defense discretionary spending below 2010 levels (which was the high-water mark if you will) by 2033.

If you look at the federal budget like a pie - it's divided up into three major pieces:

1. There's a big chunk that's "mandatory" spending.  This is defense spending, entitlement programs like social security and medicare, farm subsidies, and veteran pensions.  This is sort of a third rail of budgeting - that is there is law surrounding it - so it's not a part of the annual appropriations process. This is roughly 70% of the federal budget.
2. Then there's "defense discretionary" - these are all kinds of military-related projects that fall outside the DoD's budget above.  These are the weapons programs, ship building, raises for the military, etc.  This was about $800B last year - or roughly 15% of the budget.
3. Then there's "non-defense discretionary" - this is everything else.  Education, transportation, and homeland security all fall into this category. Veteran's healthcare sits here as well.  This is likewise about 15% of the total budget.  This is the part they're willing to play with.

To get to the levels proposed above you'd need to cut all of NDD by about 22%.  Take VA-healthcare out of the mix and you'd need to cut the rest of it by about 58%.

This is not a serious proposal for a lot of reasons.

First and foremost - McCarthy can't get 218 votes amongst his caucus to pass it.  For what it's worth - I doubt he can get 218 votes on anything budget related as there are some members of the caucus that seem pretty dead set on voting against any raising of the debt ceiling.  

Second, this is a non-starter everywhere else. Even when the GOP has been in power, they haven't even been able to come anywhere close to meeting these kinds of cuts in the past.  They know this - that's why they're not proposing specific cuts or a path to get there.

I could go on - but I'm going to step back out of the political and just reassure everyone that this isn't something that has any chance of becoming law in the immediate future.  I do find it interesting that the VA is messaging like they did above.  Call your representative, I guess.

Two more notes on the way out.  First, remember that the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending.  It's about paying the note on debt that past Congresses have already incurred. Second, my prayer is that one day our country does at least as good a job of taking care of our veterans as it does making new ones.

[Defender]

Stop sending big bucks to Ukraine and funding Bidens tax gouging spending on green crap.

[E4 No More]

15 hours ago, Darrell said:

The nation absolutely owes a lot to vets who were wounded in combat, and I'm glad they get the benefits they do. But I do have a bit of an issue with paying lifetime benefits to someone who was injured playing basketball during their off-duty hours. 

Hum, so in your eyes the lifetime of pain and 2-surgeries that I've experienced from me herniating a disc in my back because the Marine Corps didn't think E-2s deserve any help in moving their family for duty shouldn't be compensated because it didn't happen in combat? How about the PTSD that I acquired by having an E-6E "Intruder" blowing up so close to me that I sustained 1st-degree flash burns on my face? It was also NOT combat-related, but I would have died had that plane not come from El Toro, and been loitering in the area - depleting its fuel before the explosion and its crash. Or the damage to my sinuses sustained when an officer ordered me into the area of the burning wreckage of that crash without ANY protective gear or training to secure the area and search for survivors? I don't deserve my 70% rating for the PTSD because I didn't get it in combat?

That's a BS thought process you've got there.

On another note, being thanked for my service makes me uneasy because no one was thanking me from 1982 to 1986 when I served.

[Alleycat72]

8 minutes ago, E4 No More said:

Hum, so in your eyes the lifetime of pain and 2-surgeries that I've experienced from me herniating a disc in my back because the Marine Corps didn't think E-2s deserve any help in moving their family for duty shouldn't be compensated because it didn't happen in combat? How about the PTSD that I acquired by having an E-6E "Intruder" blowing up so close to me that I sustained 1st-degree flash burns on my face? It was also NOT combat-related, but I would have died had that plane not come from El Toro, and been loitering in the area - depleting its fuel before the explosion and its crash. Or the damage to my sinuses sustained when an officer ordered me into the area of the burning wreckage of that crash without ANY protective gear or training to secure the area and search for survivors? I don't deserve my 70% rating for the PTSD because I didn't get it in combat?

That's a BS thought process you've got there.

On another note, being thanked for my service makes me uneasy because no one was thanking me from 1982 to 1986 when I served.

With all due respect, what he posted was not remotely like that and he did not insinuate it. Almost getting hit by a helicopter on base is different than catching a STD from a hooker in South Korea.

[Darrell]

20 hours ago, Grunt67 said:

As a combat wounded 'Nam Vet, I waited 40+ years before someone thanked me for my service. It took awhile to get used to that, but now I'm grateful to hear it

It's a terrible thing that servicemen were blamed for poor political decisions during the Vietnam war. Besides our thanks you probably also deserve an apology for being sent into a no-win situation by politicians who were unwilling to do what was necessary to win. 

[E4 No More]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:50 AM, Alleycat72 said:

With all due respect, what he posted was not remotely like that and he did not insinuate it. Almost getting hit by a helicopter on base is different than catching a STD from a hooker in South Korea.

"The nation absolutely owes a lot to vets who were wounded in combat...." [emphasis mine]

I think the insinuation was quite clear.

PS: FWIW, the A-6E is an airplane; not a helicopter.

Edited April 26, 2023 by E4 No More

[pop pop]

I am a user of the V A. Was diagnosed in 92 with Agent Orange. Have gone through many dollars out of my pocket until Trump made the V A give better medications to us. My last year I spent 5,000.00 out of my pocket for co pays for my meds. My insurance company spent 46,000.00 on the rest. Now I am getting these meds from the V A. I have a 90% rating and only thing I haven't had is mental disorders which I am very thankful for. I was not in combat, but during The Teat offensive in 67-68 I spent 3 weeks backing the Marines in a foxhole 100 yards behind the perimeter fence at Danang Air field. The enemy sent a diversionary force against our end of the base, and overrun the other end. Destroyed numerous aircraft and buildings, soldiers and infrastructure.  

All out battle is a fearful thing to witness in person. That is where I became a man. Fear was my constant companion up until I decided I was going to kill every enemy soldier I could, if they came across that fence, until they killed me. I couldn't get that foxhole deep enough. The Fear left after making that determination. I grew up at age 19.

My dad told me I would return from Vietnam either a "Man or a Mouse." I never knew, for years, what that meant. Come to realize, much later, some were not able to make the decision to kill another, and in many cases, it was hard to live with, afterwards, if you couldn't. Many who couldn't turned to drugs or alcohol to cope. I was thankful I was able to make the determination in my mind. 

I am totally thankful for the V A today. Keeps me out of the poor house for now. Found out the other day I may be loosing my Post Office Insurance program I was promised upon retirement. That is always nice. I may need to put much more importance on the VA for my health needs in the future. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by pop pop

[Darrell]

1 hour ago, E4 No More said:

I think the insinuation was quite clear.

I'm sorry I failed to communicate my thoughts clearly enough. The distinction I intended to make was between service-connected injury and non-service-connected.  

[E4 No More]

Just now, Darrell said:

I'm sorry I failed to communicate my thoughts clearly enough. The distinction I intended to make was between service-connected injury and non-service-connected.  

Thanks for that. I'm a little sensitive to this because I denied and suppressed my PSTD - mostly because I didn't get it from combat. I thought I would be viewed as a "wuss" if I admitted it. Then adding to that the talk on here about using PTSD as an excuse to take my weapons which didn't help. That was until I went for my C & P exam. The psychologist said that combat wasn't a prerequisite for PTSD. He said he's talked to thousands of vets who had it, and gave the following example: A service member that he treated for PTSD that didn't come from his 3 combat tours in Vietnam; it came from watching a little Vietnamese girl get murdered. He also said that another component was that I viewed the pilot and bombardier as heroes because they could have ejected from the plane, and leaving it to come down on my head. They had experienced a Foreign Object Destruct (FOD) after a bombing run. They had blown their canopy about a mile from our position, and the investigator told me that they must have seen me and part of my unit ahead of them, so they held-off on ejecting until it was too late. The plane turned on its side before they could eject, and they ejected into a granite hillside behind me. The investigator told me that I was lucky that the drop tanks were empty, otherwise, I'd be roasted alive. Fortunately for me, I had news stories about the crash on 10/3/83 to back me up, so the VA set a record and rated me at 70% disabled in only 5 months.

 

I have been fighting the VA for 14-years over my back. The main reason is that my medical record book was destroyed in a fire at the storage facility, and the VA was violating the law by NOT giving me the benefit of the doubt when such records are missing. The appeals judge recognized that and granted service-connection. I am just waiting on the VARO to determine the percentage of disability.

[bersaguy]

I have a question? Do we have any members here that are receiving any help here through the WOUNDED WARRIORS FOUNDATION???

[Patrick Henry]

Hmmm…..cut VA benefits but no talk of cutting benefits to illegal aliens? Why is that?

[tacops]

Doesn't matter whether it is a small town, big city or federal govt.  They all play the same game.  If you don't get the money you want, tell the world how bad it is going to impact your services by voicing the cuts that would illicit an emotional response.  In towns, the school boards always want more money.  If they don't get it they voice how they will have to cut student bus services requiring parents to transport to and from schools and or subsidized lunches or special ed classes.  They never suggest to cut the new office furniture or conference travel etc.  This elicits an outcry from the public which forces the councils hand and more often than not, the schools get what they want and pot holes don't get fixed, police training budgets get cut, again, or they decide the fire hoses can make it another year.  This is the same BS game at a federal level.  No way they will cut free housing, medical etc. for illegals, or maybe reducing SSI payments to those that should not be getting them, (which this alone would help to solve the whole SS concern) but we can't do that because it would cost votes and perhaps a loss of control.  Maybe we could quit giving money to all the Green Energy startups (and soon to collapse once the money is in hand) that the politicians have financial interests in or EV interests for that matter.  I could go on and on but I have ranted enough.  I'm old enough that I am tired of watching the same BS games played out at all levels of govt. and even more tired of it watching work on the ignorant masses. JMO

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by tacops

[bersaguy]

23 hours ago, bersaguy said:

I have a question? Do we have any members here that are receiving any help here through the WOUNDED WARRIORS FOUNDATION???

The only reason I was asking is I have been donating every month for the last 10 years and I would like to know if the funds are going where they are suppose to be going besides some ones pocket. I know they caught a few crooks in the program back years ago and I just want to make sure that is not happening again. If anyone knows a Wounded warrior that is in the program can you find out if they are getting the help they are suppose to be getting? Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Bersaguy

[Grunt67]

8 hours ago, bersaguy said:

The only reason I was asking is I have been donating every month for the last 10 years and I would like to know if the funds are going where they are suppose to be going besides some ones pocket. I know they caught a few crooks in the program back years ago and I just want to make sure that is not happening again. If anyone knows a Wounded warrior that is in the program can you find out if they are getting the help they are suppose to be getting? Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Bersaguy

Doug, I can't answer that with any degree of certainty . All I know about them is they are for vets after 911. As for the scandal, all I could find was that it had been cleared up ( according to WWP ).

Travel at your own risk. FWIW, I don't donate.

[btq96r]

Mac is right about these just being political games.  But don't think funding for veterans programs will be safe from cuts.  Just hope they are logical ones as time changes the mission.

Everything in federal programs comes back to head counts.  The VA Healthcare system is still supporting a lot of Vietnam Era Veterans, but eventually that generation will reduce in VA Healthcare enrollees through natural passing (hopefully after long and happy post-military lives).  So, when the VA is around to serve the numbers from the all-volunteer era which had a huge drop-off from the Vietnam years, there will be tough choices about how much infrastructure to keep around in terms of hospitals and clinics...especially in distance between facilities.  The cuts may look huge on paper, and will be harder for some locations than others.

It would also be a decent time for the government to start thinking about how to use the healthcare system at-large for veterans services through a Medicare/Medicaid/TriCare type program where they just reimburse physicians and facilities in a fee for service model.  They started this with Veteran's Choice, but that was for delays and to a lesser extent distance, not a going forward transition.  It can certainly be done for a lot of things veterans deal with.  For those more specialized disabilities, I would think opening military hospitals is an avenue to explore.

 

On 5/18/2023 at 12:41 PM, bersaguy said:

I have a question? Do we have any members here that are receiving any help here through the WOUNDED WARRIORS FOUNDATION???

I've never seen a Wounded Warriors Project effort in action that wasn't fundraising.  That may just be my lack of visibility, however.  Their CEO since 2016 who came in to help clean things up after the issues surfaced was the Brigade Commander of 3 BCT; 101st ABN DIV while I was supporting that unit off and on in Afghan and Iraq.  He was an alright guy back then, hopefully he still is.

I do know that if you want to make sure your charity dollars to veterans causes has a good impact, The Fisher House Foundation is still doing important work, as is the Special Operations Warrior Foundation.   So if you want to consider any of those, your money will be well spent.  Way less advertising from both, so the impact of every dollar into their programs and not their marketing is more.

WWP

https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/202370934

Fisher House

https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/113158401

SOWF

https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/521183585

Edited May 20, 2023 by btq96r

[hipower]

While you vets make some very good points, I must say I disagree with the giving/recieving of the "Thank You" greeting.

It allows the greatful among us to show our thanks, and for the pride we have in youfor the duties you have fullfilled and for the lives lost for us and the nation.

I must admit that lately I have gotten lax in offering my thanks to those vets I can identify via caps and patches, etc.,  I try do do so in the spirit of love and thanks for those who did what I couldn't do for this...our country.

If you find it embarassing, I'm sorry. If you find it offensive...well I'm sorry for you.

My wife reminds me when she sees that I've missed  honoring an identifiable vet. A father, 4 returning uncles. 1 who didn't come back, and one returnee that commited sucide. You can bet she doesn't forget to do it. All but her father were Vietnam vets. Her father... Air Force in the Korean "Conflict."

Of the 4 brothers, all were in active combat situations. 3 of them at thes same time, the 4th a year earlier. 2 diagnosed with PTSD, 2 with now admitted Agent Orange issues. The suicide was one of the 1 with PTSD, as it is now identified. After years of struggling, he drank himself into a stupor. But not before leaving a short note and setting himself and his home afire. 

A case of TMI, I'm sure, but just explaining why we say Thank you for your Service.

Edited May 24, 2023 by hipower