Gov. Lee's actions; background checks, call for Red Flag Law

[Dustbuster]

red flag law. sounds like the same BS Hitler prob used in his heyday.Unfortunately most don't know about that, they're busy fighting over beer can labels. You want to talk about doors getting kicked in, this is the closest thing to making it perfectly legal.Imagine if all the mommies basement dwellers had a list of owners to call in on, and just made #### up... like scorned women in a divorce... cant make this bs up...

[Johnny Rotten]

WTF are they thinking, no one is on our side, uphill battle in the mud, as always, let's do this.

[Garufa]

OMG, now the republicans are taking guns away!  It was fun while it lasted but the end is near!  Some of y’all better get your boats tuned up so you can start losing things.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Garufa

[scatman]

On 4/12/2023 at 3:23 PM, Sleep profit said:

What’s is alternative to a Two party system and whom 

Vote for one of the other parties. Such as the libertarian party, if they could give us another decent candidate. There has always been more than two parties, just no one ever looks for them, so they get voted out by the time primaries role around, and then you're left with the choice of which is the better bad choice.

Edited April 19, 2023 by scatman

[Defender]

6 hours ago, scatman said:

Vote for one of the other parties. Such as the libertarian party, if they could give us another decent candidate. There has always been more than two parties, just no one ever looks for them, so they get voted out by the time primaries role around, and then you're left with the choice of which is the better bad choice.

While I agree with that in principle, I did it exactly that in 1992, voting for Ross Perot.  All that did was pull enough conservative votes away from GOP George W. Bush to give Bill Clinton enough votes to win.  That didn’t work out as planned to say the least!

[E4 No More]

3 minutes ago, Defender said:

While I agree with that in principle, I did it exactly that in 1992, voting for Ross Perot.  All that did was pull enough conservative votes away from GOP George W. Bush to give Bill Clinton enough votes to win.  That didn’t work out as planned to say the least!

Yeah, it's amazing how many people on this forum can't understand this. I don't like it, but I understand it.

[scatman]

51 minutes ago, Defender said:

While I agree with that in principle, I did it exactly that in 1992, voting for Ross Perot.  All that did was pull enough conservative votes away from GOP George W. Bush to give Bill Clinton enough votes to win.  That didn’t work out as planned to say the least!

The same thing happened with Bernie Sanders' votes, but that doesn't mean we just continue to fall back into the two party bs. If enough people get the message and take a stand, things will change, but if we just continue to roll over and play dead when things don't go as planned, then they will never change. 

[Defender]

55 minutes ago, scatman said:

The same thing happened with Bernie Sanders' votes, but that doesn't mean we just continue to fall back into the two party bs. If enough people get the message and take a stand, things will change, but if we just continue to roll over and play dead when things don't go as planned, then they will never change. 

You’re right, it did.  I agree, but one must be careful. I had hopes and worries  that the Tea party  movement of a while back might split from the GOP into an actual party, but the RINOs were able to squash it.

[Grayfox54]

I sent e-mails to both my state senator and representative about this. I made my voice heard. I can't say that they will listen, but what more can I do? 

[TripleGGG]

2 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I sent e-mails to both my state senator and representative about this. I made my voice heard. I can't say that they will listen, but what more can I do? 

I have all my reps on speed dial and I send emails non stop. Heck I even mail letters certified so somebody has to sign for them. Like you said, they may not listen but I am going to shout. 

[Sunfish]

Anything that they shove up your Arse without due process should be un-constitutional but once it's in place it takes a lifetime to be heard. There is no reason in this world to think that any law will stop a determined individual from breaking it. Mentally ill people do not care about themselves so why would anyone think that they cared about them  

[Wheelgunner]

I read the latest news today and Gov. Lee calling for enactment of a statutory "mental health order of protection" to prevent mentally unstable people from having access to firearms.

I challenge each of you to read Tenn. Code Ann. Title 33, Ch.6, Part 401 et seq. Those current laws provide a comprehensive mechanism for rapid commitment of mentally unstable people if clear proof shows they will harm others.  

What I'm saying is that the precise issue Gov. Lee says must be addressed through a new law curtailing your and my civil liberties already has a solution under existing TN law.

I'm not your lawyer and this is not legal advice.  But a new means of suspending basic civil liberties doesn't stop a bad guy with a gun and certainly doesn't bring back those lost recently in Nashville.  I'm worried.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Wheelgunner
Clarification

[RMC5]

RINOs gonna RINO. Emailed my rep and senator earlier this week and left voicemails today.

[BigK]

7 hours ago, scatman said:

The same thing happened with Bernie Sanders' votes, but that doesn't mean we just continue to fall back into the two party bs. If enough people get the message and take a stand, things will change, but if we just continue to roll over and play dead when things don't go as planned, then they will never change. 

I'm fine with that as long as they go first.

[Worriedman]

Here is what the governor intends to bring to the floor this week.

Temporary-Mental-Health-Order-of-Protection-007924.pdf

[Lsparks]

Very appropriate moniker Worriedman.

 I just read thru what you posted and this is VERY CONCERNING to say the least.   I despise politics but am I decidedly conservative leaning.  This bill and most red flag laws should concern everyone that believes in due process and 2nd amedment rights.  

When one stops to think just how easy it might be to falsely accuse someone of mental instability, and the ease at which “proof” can be obtained in our electronic, data driven culture, this is a serious concern.  
I briefly googled HHS view on accessibility of one’s HIPPA protected medical records and see that HHS supports full access to one’s records and this is given the green light from the AMA as well.  This is a serious concern !  
Anyone of us at any given time in life, may well have been prescribed a multitude of medications by any type of GP or Family doctor that are used daily by psychiatrists.  Whether it was a short term Rx for a benzodiazepine for an acute stressor in life or something like an SSRI ot SSNRI for depression or anxiety.  Additionally, there are many medications that are prescribed for legitimately off label uses that may imply the issue is mental when in fact it might be something purely physical.   My point being, all it will likely take little effort to substantiate a claim for instability, considering all your prescription history is available to the law enforcement that is wishing to support the order.  I am in the healthcare industry and have provided care for a variety of individuals.  My conservative guesstimate without looking at any source of statistics would be that fully 50% of our US population has likely received an Rx for some medical condition that might “imply” mental instability.  I cant begin to even list the meds that might be used against someone but they are common.  Additionally, how many of us at one point in our lives have been diagnosed as having depression !!!  Successfully treated  or not - this could very well be used against us  !  I certainly would not depend on politicians or lawyers to understand ANYTHING about medicine. 

I don’t like where this is going.  
I intend to make some phone calls today and encourage all to do so. 
I don’t even know who to call for my geographic region but I’m gonna find out and encourage everyone else to as well. 

[Lsparks]

https://www.acponline.org/advocacy/acp-advocate/archive/january-21-2022/hhs-details-red-flag-law-hipaa-exemptions

[BigK]

The whole point of red flag laws/ERPOs is to create a backdoor for government to deprive a person of due process.

If they think a person is a threat, a doctor substantiates that by divulging your medical records, and a judge agrees to enact the red flag law, then why not arrest the person they think is a threat instead? The reason is they know that won't fly because you haven't been deemed mentally unstable by a court yet. Confiscating your property BEFORE you're declared unstable, especially when you're forced to prove your innocence to get your property back, is just as unconstitutional, right?

[E4 No More]

It's strange seeing you all discussing depriving people of their property without a hearing when the police already do this routinely. People have had their money taken simply because the police officer thought they had too much cash on them; therefore, they must be a drug-dealer. How about "emanate domain" as well?

Guys, I absolutely hate this, but if we don't figure this out SOON then we'll be looking at disarmament once the MAJORITY of the people in the country get fed-up with the mass shootings.

[BigK]

1 hour ago, E4 No More said:

It's strange seeing you all discussing depriving people of their property without a hearing when the police already do this routinely. People have had their money taken simply because the police officer thought they had too much cash on them; therefore, they must be a drug-dealer. How about "emanate domain" as well?

Guys, I absolutely hate this, but if we don't figure this out SOON then we'll be looking at disarmament once the MAJORITY of the people in the country get fed-up with the mass shootings.

I think you're right about seizure laws and ED laws. It's ridiculous! I never understood the logic that allowed this to subvert the 4th amendment. 

[Worriedman]

1 hour ago, BigK said:

I think you're right about seizure laws and ED laws. It's ridiculous! I never understood the logic that allowed this to subvert the 4th amendment. 

The same people who continuously shill for the Asset Forfeiture are the ones who do not want you to be able to legally carry long guns, or any gun for that matter.  The Department of Safety, the Sheriffs Association, TBI, the Chiefs of Police and the DAs Conference have fought us every step, from the first issuance of handgun permits to trying to be like the rest of the freaking Nation with respect to long guns, and every governor is with them. 

[Worriedman]

3 hours ago, E4 No More said:

It's strange seeing you all discussing depriving people of their property without a hearing when the police already do this routinely. People have had their money taken simply because the police officer thought they had too much cash on them; therefore, they must be a drug-dealer. How about "emanate domain" as well?

Guys, I absolutely hate this, but if we don't figure this out SOON then we'll be looking at disarmament once the MAJORITY of the people in the country get fed-up with the mass shootings.

Rep. Monty Fritz had and amendment that would mandate life in prison/no parole for the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime.  That would be a start, mass shootings are now anything over two people, how many of them are there in Chicago or East St. Louis  every weekend, DC?  How many of the latest school shooters were trans or gay?

Lets make Dr.s and parents liable for not turning in their children if they know they are mentally disturbed.  We have involuntary committal in TN now, but if nobody calls it in and somebody knows, who suffers and who is to blame?

Part 4Emergency Involuntary Ad.pdf Tennessee Statutes And Court Rules Chapter 6 Mental Health Service Part 5.pdf

Edited April 20, 2023 by Worriedman

[Chucktshoes]

[Garufa]

6 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Can we get Haslam back?  

[Chucktshoes]

3 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Can we get Haslam back?  

Honestly, I think Bredesen was better because the R’s in the legislature acted like they had something to prove. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Chucktshoes