Gov. Lee's actions; background checks, call for Red Flag Law

[DO-TN]

Wow, Gov. Lee must have fallen off his rocker on this one.

Here is a link to the EO he signed yesterday:

https://publications.tnsosfiles.com/pub/execorders/exec-orders-lee100.pdf

All it did was tell entities with information that they need to ensure such information is made available to TBI for running background checks.

Next up is his call for Red Flag Laws. 

No good can come from these. No matter how they are broken down, there is just too much chance for abuse, not to mention "face your accuser" "innocent until PROVEN guilty" "Secure in your persons" "right to keep" and countless other Constitutional violations these kinds of laws would bring about.

[gregintenn]

Gov. Lee is a politician who doesn’t have to face reelection. We’re in for a rough ride I fear.

[BigK]

My legalese is weak, admittedly, so maybe I misread the EO. It seemed to me like the order is for courts and other entities required to report criminal history and court mental health info w/in 72 hours. I took that to mean they were already required to report, but there was not an enforced timeframe. Help me fill in the gap, I'm missing what the concern is.

[AuEagle]

I called my State Senator Steve Sutherland's office & left a message with the person who answer's his calls. I told him what I was calling about, gave him my number if the Senator wanted to talk about this.

An hour later Senator Sutherland called me & assured me he did not support this garbage Lee proposed.

Big thumbs up for Senator Sutherland!!

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

 

 

Gov. Bill Lee, in pivot, to sign order strengthening background checks, calls for red flag law | WKMS

"While passing the Senate Judiciary may be a tough task, possibly tougher is getting House Speaker Cameron Sexton, R-Crossville, to shift his ideas on red flag like laws. Sexton stood with Gov. Lee at a press conference last week to unveil his amended school safety proposal. It passed with bipartisan support last week. But Rep. Sexton, during that time, shot down the idea of adopting red flag laws unless they had a mental health treatment tied to it."

[OLDNEWBIE]

 

The middle one seems harmless enough, the first one I guess means report a crime/arrest in 72 hours to TBI? So on the third one....what do you suppose the TBI would suggest be changed? And excuse my ignorance but if you are charged/arrested for a felony or misdemeanor now as the background check law stands are you barred from purchase until charges dropped or proven innocent at trial etc.?

From the same article:

The governor also signed an executive order Tuesday. He says the goal is to increase the effectiveness of the state’s background check process. It does several things:

• Establishes a 72-hour new crime reporting requirement
• Requires courts to submit timely and accurate information to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation
• Requires the TBI to examine the process for purchasing firearms and submit a report listing any changes needed within 60 days

[BigK]

I don't see the link here to red flag laws. And trust me, I'm watching for that like a hawk. I thing red flag laws are a horrendous miscarriage of justice in any form they offer it because it bypasses due process.

[TGO David]

Red flag laws are gun control.  Period.  They don't do anything to stop a person from obtaining a firearm through means other than retail sales.  They don't do anything to stop a person from committing assault with an improvised weapon of another sort.  The just control gun sales and give the false impression that a politician has "done something".

If we really cared about stopping mentally and emotionally broken people from harming other people, we'd do something about the screwed-up person.

I mean, if only we had some clue that the Covenant shooter was in need of geniune psychotherapy.

 

[Sleep profit]

I voted for Lee but after this I hate to admit. It     very disappointing      will also be calling as Au Eagle did 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Sleep profit

[Chucktshoes]

This is an opportune time to remind your representative that Governor Lee may not be facing another election, but odds are pretty good they are.

[Erik88]

I remember when TGO was super pissed at Lee for his COVID protocols in 2020 and swore to not vote for him again. Of course no one was going to vote for his democratic challenger either. Here we are. This is why I will continue to advocate for more than two crappy choices. I'm so extremely sick of our broken two party system. If you all can't see that both parties are doing damage, I'm not sure what it would take to convince you. 

Sorry for the rant. 

 

[Sleep profit]

33 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I remember when TGO was super pissed at Lee for his COVID protocols in 2020 and swore to not vote for him again. Of course no one was going to vote for his democratic challenger either. Here we are. This is why I will continue to advocate for more than two crappy choices. I'm so extremely sick of our broken two party system. If you all can't see that both parties are doing damage, I'm not sure what it would take to convince you. 

Sorry for the rant. 

 

What’s is alternative to a Two party system and whom 

[OLDNEWBIE]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

Red flag laws are gun control.  Period.  They don't do anything to stop a person from obtaining a firearm through means other than retail sales.  They don't do anything to stop a person from committing assault with an improvised weapon of another sort.  The just control gun sales and give the false impression that a politician has "done something".

If we really cared about stopping mentally and emotionally broken people from harming other people, we'd do something about the screwed-up person.

I mean, if only we had some clue that the Covenant shooter was in need of geniune psychotherapy.

 

Honestly it might stop a couple but I've never been in the camp of taking away rights  "If it could just stop one of these shootings", "save one life etc." The people pushing these laws care more about their hidden agenda than saving lives.

Here where there are more unregistered guns than people , open borders, gangs and Dem run crime infested big cities, A red flag law would stop perhaps a few wackos that weren't determined enough to seek a gun off the streets or steal one.

All those teen gang bangers don't get their guns at the local gun shop or on trading forums like this! Narcotics have been heavily enforced forever yet look at all the addicts. What about human trafficking? YOU CAN GET ANYTHING YOU WANT ILLEGALLY WITH ENOUGH CASH ! Oh yeah they want to stop that too, anyway....

A poorly written and enforced Red Flag law might do more harm than good. I see visions of Ruby Ridge type incidents in our future if they go too far that will equal any recent mass shootings. And that will further the agenda of those behind  pushing these laws I'm afraid.

 

[TGO David]

Let me ask a question:

Why does anyone believe that so-called Red Flag laws will work when you consider the other past cases of mass killings where law enforcement agencies had advance notice of threats or intent to do harm and yet still failed to stop the event?

Think about that long and hard.  The statement "The FBI/police were aware of [the individual]" has occurred so frequently in the aftermath of mass killings that it has become the butt of countless dark jokes.  And yet... none of those agencies preemptively did anything to stop the killers.

And in cases where a friend or family member knew the killer was making threatening statements ahead of the actual event, those friends or family members could have EASILY reported them to the authorities and potentially averted disaster.  Threatening a person or group of people is already "assault".  It is already illegal. 

A person guilty of making threats or threatening remarks can today be arrested and investigated for that!  Further, arresting a person for making threatening remarks does not require that you adjudicate that person in advance, unlike filing for an emergency protective order under "Red Flag" provisions.  It's actually a faster process.

Conversely, if no one knows of the killer's intent ahead of time, no number of red flag laws would help.  A killer that flies under the radar will never be stopped by these proposed laws.

The only real difference between what we have now and what we will have if Red Flag laws are enacted is that gun owners will be subject to legalized and expensive harassment without the protection of due process.

It's all bull#### meant to grab guns and preserve jobs for politicians.

 

[BigK]

7 hours ago, Erik88 said:

This is why I will continue to advocate for more than two crappy choices. I'm so extremely sick of our broken two party system. If you all can't see that both parties are doing damage, I'm not sure what it would take to convince you.

I don't care how many ways the Democrats split their votes, I'm all for them doing it. Ross Perot proved a 3rd candidate causes the worst possible outcome for the GOP, so I hope we learned our lesson.

[hipower]

Called Gov. Lee's office. Had to leave a message. Then cut off midstream and told I was running out of time. Ended with my disagreement with Red Flag Laws being totally fraught with trouble. Gives anyone the opportunity to cause "temporary" confiscation.

Think I'll get a reply? I don't. Think I'll try again this morning and try to get a human and more than 30 seconds.

[Sunfish]

4 hours ago, hipower said:

Called Gov. Lee's office. Had to leave a message. Then cut off midstream and told I was running out of time. Ended with my disagreement with Red Flag Laws being totally fraught with trouble. Gives anyone the opportunity to cause "temporary" confiscation.

Think I'll get a reply? I don't. Think I'll try again this morning and try to get a human and more than 30 seconds.

I commend  your efforts but you have Lee confused with someone who gives a sheet.

[leroy]

Folks...

" Red Flag " laws have been ruled unconstitutional by various federal courts... That said; I would watch the situation; but not be too concerned about this " windbaggery "... Things are hot everywhere and people are watching for any move that smacks of abridging the Fourth Amendment.  " Red Flag " laws do that on their face if there is no " due process "...

"... The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ... ..."

leroy..

[hipower]

14 hours ago, leroy said:

Folks...

" Red Flag " laws have been ruled unconstitutional by various federal courts... That said; I would watch the situation; but not be too concerned about this " windbaggery "... Things are hot everywhere and people are watching for any move that smacks of abridging the Fourth Amendment.  " Red Flag " laws do that on their face if there is no " due process "...

"... The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things ... ..."

leroy..

I agree. But...2 words...Biden wants. That's the danger point. I know, not Old Joe actually; but those who prop him up. The man thinks he's Superman and is looking to prove it! 

[Worriedman]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:39 PM, OLDNEWBIE said:

 

 

Gov. Bill Lee, in pivot, to sign order strengthening background checks, calls for red flag law | WKMS

"While passing the Senate Judiciary may be a tough task, possibly tougher is getting House Speaker Cameron Sexton, R-Crossville, to shift his ideas on red flag like laws. Sexton stood with Gov. Lee at a press conference last week to unveil his amended school safety proposal. It passed with bipartisan support last week. But Rep. Sexton, during that time, shot down the idea of adopting red flag laws unless they had a mental health treatment tied to it."

Sexton may have a bigger problem keeping his job, the recent dust up about where he lives may get him removed from office.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Worriedman

[hipower]

Re: Sexton and his comment about red flag laws.

"ButRep. Sexton, during that time, shot down the idea of adopting red flag laws unless they had a mental health treatment tied to it."

So was he saying that gun owners who had weapons taken should have mental health treatment, or that mental heath screenings should be a prerequisite in the process to remove these weapons from lawful owners?

[CMDRStormBorn]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:25 PM, hipower said:

I agree. But...2 words...Biden wants. That's the danger point. I know, not Old Joe actually; but those who prop him up. The man thinks he's Superman and is looking to prove it! 

That is the scariest thing about this so-called Administration.  If you think about the known list, that’s really saying something.    It’s a relatively simple but adamant playbook as they continue to erode our constitution.  They have no reservations with overreach, merrily ignore the different branches of government, chronically deny any wrongdoing & simply double-down when caught, then consistently weaponize agencies against any citizens who call them out.  

[hipower]

1 hour ago, CMDRStormBorn said:

That is the scariest thing about this so-called Administration.  If you think about the known list, that’s really saying something.    It’s a relatively simple but adamant playbook as they continue to erode our constitution.  They have no reservations with overreach, merrily ignore the different branches of government, chronically deny any wrongdoing & simply double-down when caught, then consistently weaponize agencies against any citizens who call them out.  

Exactly.

[BigK]

19 hours ago, CMDRStormBorn said:

That is the scariest thing about this so-called Administration.  If you think about the known list, that’s really saying something.    It’s a relatively simple but adamant playbook as they continue to erode our constitution.  They have no reservations with overreach, merrily ignore the different branches of government, chronically deny any wrongdoing & simply double-down when caught, then consistently weaponize agencies against any citizens who call them out.  

Well said!!

Funny how they try to ramrod their agenda down our throat with a razor thin majority, but in TN when their opponents have a super majority like 75% of the seats, they claim democracy isn't being served and cry about it being unfair that they can't get their way. 

[Grayfox54]

Something that has occurred to me that most people may not consider. I have a fairly large collection. Some of which are considered rare collectibles and quite valuable. If I were to get "Red Flagged" and my guns taken, do you really think they would treat my guns as the valuables they are? Nope! They'd throw them into piles and boxes and haul them away like so much trash. Then only to be thrown in some evidence room/ locker, neglected and allowed to rust. 

Then say I win my case and my guns are returned. The scratches and damage to them will considerably affect their value. Will I have any recourse to sue the government for this loss? I really doubt it.