school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School

[bersaguy]

36 minutes ago, BigK said:

I'm not opposed to a method for medical professionals to report patients they feel present a danger to themselves or others, but I am opposed depriving someone of due process as a result.  If that report temporarily flags them for TICS that's less egregious until the flag is cleared, I'm fine with it. I'm not fine with showing up to take someone into custody and seizing their private property until they can prove themselves innocent.

   I can agree with much of this. My only issue is if they are going to have medical professions making decisions about who should not own a firearm they need to have s system put in place for that Medical professional to report to other than local law enforcement and it does not act like some generalized Red Flag Law.  There needs to be rules put in place that prevents people like mad neighbors, a mad wife or ex wife or girlfriend. It's like you said. The person deserves due process and most police officers don't do that when they respond to a domestic disturbance call. They arrest the person to jail, take all the guns and lock them up. When the person is released, seldom if ever do they get their guns back. That is one of the Red Flag problems that needs to be addressed. 

[gregintenn]

Many physicians share the opinion that simply owning a firearm is a mental deficiency.

As for opinions, I simply want this type thing to stop without making me and millions of other law abiding citizens criminals.

[bersaguy]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

Many physicians share the opinion that simply owning a firearm is a mental deficiency.

As for opinions, I simply want this type thing to stop without making me and millions of other law abiding citizens criminals.

I don't know if there is that many doctors as you might think. My doctor knows I carry a gun for my office visits and I asked her if she had a problem with it and she said no and that about everyone in her office including her carries one.

[Alleycat72]

If you are so dangerous that the public believes you need your guns taken away then you are too dangerous to be in public. No need to take the guns. Take the people. 

[Grayfox54]

2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Yeah, I solely use it for image hosting. Don’t even bother looking around it anymore. Do my best to click in and out before I even have a chance to see the mess of a cesspool that place is. 

I do get some good laughs out of Imgur. I usually just skip over anything political. But bear in mind that it does give you an insight into the liberal thinking. Know your enemy. 

What has become clear to me is that despite their liberal thinking, they can be very close minded and down right hateful to anyone who disagrees with them. They don't believe in live and let live. Many of them are of the opinion that if you disagree with them and they can't convert you, they would rather see you dead. Now that's scary. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Grayfox54

[Chucktshoes]

3 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I do get some good laughs out of Imgur. I usually just skip over anything political. But bear in mind that it does give you an insight into the liberal thinking. Know your enemy. 

I have folks I respect as honest actors to talk to for that. 

[hipower]

I have very mixed feelings on "Red Flag" laws. Any law that gives police or federal agents the ability to walk into your home...take your property, and/or arrest you is extremely unsettling to me.

As has been covered here and in other forums and media, I think the practice is full of misuse and prone to personal injury on both sides of the involved parties. 

In reality, as bersayguy mentioned, gives virtually anyone with a grudge against you the ability to cause you untold grief and potentially ruin your life forever.

There needs to be a better criteria for it's use and existance than we see in place now. Mabe having it be linked to civil court proceding or an actual crime? Medical personnel with proper credentials and proof of a threat?

I just don't think the current law is acceptable. And...of course the threat is being used once again by certain groups and politicians to further more and broader gun control. JMO

[Grayfox54]

Red Flag laws are nothing more than guilty until proven innocent. I believe that eventually SCOTUS will rule them unconstitutional. But that could take some time to happen. They can do a lot of damage until then. 

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

If an adult can’t be trusted with a firearm, should they be in public at all?

[Alleycat72]

Me after someone red flags me..

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Watched a brief timeline/history of this shooter on Daily Mirror I believe? The freaking contrast from a happy outgoing art/graphic design grad to cold blooded creep was only a few months they said. The school used her as part of their PR campaign in a vid and you never would have guessed this was in her future.

I'm in the minority I guess of wanting to know what is in the manifesto, what meds she was on, how was her work going etc. If she was under mental care for suicidal thoughts etc.  Was her pronoun fluidity brand new? Was she on meds to assist that?

If a person is under care for certain mental conditions, (contemplating suicide, paranoid schitzophrenia) and a Doctor is concerned then what would be wrong with a home safety enquirary and a flag on new gun purchases?  Like when did she buy these guns?

On a side note the exteme doomsday for LGBTQ/ minorities, us vs them rhetoric from MSM and Politicians these days would really negatively feed into an already paranoid fragile delusional mind. I lived with a suddenly Paranoid Schitzoprenic family member in the late 70s and wow! The delusions and thoughts about everybody out to get him were shocking. Can't imagine how bad it would be now for someone in that state watching cable news and podcasts nowadays. And how do you tell in 2023 if somebody is just repeating amped up fake news they believe true and is slightly brainwashed by it or... is actually becoming a Dangerous Paranoid Schitzophrenic?  Some crazy has become main stream thought and everybody just goes along to get along because to discuss is to get cancelled.

[OLDNEWBIE]

1 hour ago, Alleycat72 said:

If you are so dangerous that the public believes you need your guns taken away then you are too dangerous to be in public. No need to take the guns. Take the people. 

Yes..on a case to case basis and not the public, aka jilted girlfriends but a Doctor. Doctor finds you are having  suicidal/homicidal manic thoughts then i think a some hospital time is in order. We have gone from one extreme to the other on mental health in this country. Need a middle ground.

[TGO David]

7 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Yes..on a case to case basis and not the public, aka jilted girlfriends but a Doctor. Doctor finds you are having  suicidal/homicidal manic thoughts then i think a some hospital time is in order. We have gone from one extreme to the other on mental health in this country. Need a middle ground.

This should require a consensus from several doctors, in my opinion.  Perhaps confirmation from at least two of three.

We are talking about taking away a person's rights without trial.

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Many physicians share the opinion that simply owning a firearm is a mental deficiency.

As for opinions, I simply want this type thing to stop without making me and millions of other law abiding citizens criminals.

I've never met one, but I'm 6'4" and 270lbs, so maybe they're reticent about it so they don't piss me off!

[E4 No More]

12 minutes ago, TGO David said:

This should require a consensus from several doctors, in my opinion.  Perhaps confirmation from at least two of three.

We are talking about taking away a person's rights without trial.

I would say three. It's too easy for two to conspire for whatever warped reason they might harbor.

[JayC]

3 hours ago, Snaveba said:

Well, I am not at all for a red flag law that can be implemented by a neighbor or ex, or disgruntled a$$. But if someone is under the care of a medical professional, and that professional feels they are a danger, at least there is some weight there. But still, that can be manipulated and abused. 

Until your Doctor determines your a danger because you don't want to get a vaccine for religious reasons.  Red flag laws anyway you dress them up are going to get abused more than they are going to stop bad people.

Our society is ill, in a number of different ways, new laws aren't going to fix that, taking away people's rights aren't going to fix that...  Changing society one person at a time is the only way to fix it long term.

BUT, locking up criminals, and placing people who are a danger to themselves and others in mental institutions - neither of which require any laws to be changed - would probably go a long way to making the streets safe for regular people again.  Oh yeah, and maybe looking for links between 'mental health drugs' and these shooting, might be an interesting study. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Just now, TGO David said:

This should require a consensus from several doctors, in my opinion.  Perhaps confirmation from at least two of three.

We are talking about taking away a person's rights without trial.

Don't forget....some people, perhaps this woman check themselves in for bad thoughts, voices etc. If that's the case speed is of the essence to temporarily hold them for evaluation/treatment. Nothing different will happen on mental illness though because it is a slippery slope and the status quo is working for the anti-gun folks. They blame the gun not the mentally ill maniac.

Red flag laws might get passed but in a form that will be abusive to sane law abiding gun owners I'm sure. Alot of good sane  folks out there on mild anti-depressants, medical weed, got in a justified scuffle or your neighbor doesn't like the campaign sign in your yard and reports you as suspicious... the list is endless.   

[Snaveba]

On another note, it is easy to tell that most of the newscasters are not gun owners or enthusiasts. It seemed to be a big deal that she had 7 guns and bought them all fairly recently. Hell, I have picked up 5 lever guns in the last 6 months. Not all were through FFLs, but that is not in-normal, at least for gun enthusiasts. Now, I am not saying she is a gun enthusiast, but you can tell the newscasters don’t realize that it fairly normal. 
 

it is normal, right?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Snaveba

[TGO David]

13 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

it is normal, right?

If you had the means to buy six or seven cars, would anyone really care about that?   Or pocket knives?  Or baseball bats?

All of those are things that you could kill a person with.  None would likely raise an eyebrow with most folks.  The media focuses on the guns because the politicians told them to, and the people who own the politicians told them to focus on guns.

It's all about systematically disarming the people so that the people are powerless.  And most people won't believe that even though the justification for it is all over the global news every week, playing out in real-time for them.

 

[10-Ring]

31 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

On another note, it is easy to tell that most of the newscasters are not gun owners or enthusiasts. It seemed to be a big deal that she had 7 guns and bought them all fairly recently. Hell, I have picked up 5 lever guns in the last 3 months. Not all were through FFLs, but that is not in-normal, at least for gun enthusiasts. Now, I am not saying she is a gun enthusiast, but you can tell the newscasters don’t realize that it fairly normal. 
 

it is normal, right?

I would venture that the media would produce a lot of hype concerning the number of rounds of ammunition that most members of this forum own.  There is nothing crazy about a recreational shooter having 5,000 rounds of .22 on hand at any given time, but the media would paint a totally different picture.

[Grayfox54]

Politicians like gun control because its an illusion. It makes them appear to be trying to address a problem, when in fact it restricts the rights of the citizens. Which is the ultimate goal. 

Its much easier to blame an inanimate object than to try to deal with the much more complex problem of mental illness. Smoke and mirrors folks. That's all it is. 

[Worriedman]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:16 PM, BigK said:

True and still others let no tragedy go to waste before they start sending mass emails blaming Governor Lee for impacting school safety.

Well, from his letter to us in 2018, he has failed to keep his promise :

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Worriedman

[MPGlock]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:19 AM, OLDNEWBIE said:

Sad watching the video how potentially easy it would have been to take her out early if there was only an armed teacher/staff or two nearby in the entry or hall.

Do private Christian schools not have SROs?

I can say as of the beginning of this school year, my son’s private Christian school has a retired, armed LEO there at all times students are in. But as stated previously, had to be paid for out of pocket. Well worth the increase in tuition this year if you ask me, would gladly have paid double!

[BigK]

3 hours ago, bersaguy said:

   I can agree with much of this. My only issue is if they are going to have medical professions making decisions about who should not own a firearm they need to have s system put in place for that Medical professional to report to other than local law enforcement and it does not act like some generalized Red Flag Law.  There needs to be rules put in place that prevents people like mad neighbors, a mad wife or ex wife or girlfriend. It's like you said. The person deserves due process and most police officers don't do that when they respond to a domestic disturbance call. They arrest the person to jail, take all the guns and lock them up. When the person is released, seldom if ever do they get their guns back. That is one of the Red Flag problems that needs to be addressed. 

I'm vehemently against red flag laws altogether because of due process. However, keeping crazies from buying guns is something I'm not so opposed to. I don't know the perfect formula for achieving that, but I hope it happens in a way that it could have prevented people like this nutjob from buying guns. 

[BigK]

7 minutes ago, Worriedman said:

Well, from his letter to us in 2018, he has failed to keep his promise :

 

You do realize governors only sign laws and veto laws, right? Has he vetoed a bill that would arm school teachers that I'm not aware of? He's not the scapegoat for this school shooting. Furthermore, when did he publicly say that he is no longer for arming school teachers? The timing and accuracy of your claims are tacky and inappropriate in my opinion.