school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School

[Lumber_Jack]

I’ll say this. The school deserves a lot of credit and recognition. One thing you don’t see in the MNPD video is panic teachers and children. They heard the alarm and acted according to a plan that had obviously been practiced. They protected those children as best they can. Unfortunately no plan is perfect or can work flawlessly and the evil got through to a few, but lives were saved by the forethought and planning of the administration and staff. 
 

I believe in learning everything we can from these events.

1) I hope more private schools will find ways to employee on-site security or SRO.

2)Any door that is locked for protection should also have some level of glass break prevention. It can’t be bullet proof but internal wire mesh would have prevented or significantly slowed the entry of the assailant. 
 

These are not criticisms of Covenant but they will be times brought up at my kids schools as items that need addressing 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Lumber_Jack
Gramma be bad

[Sleep profit]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

Fox, I have learned if it is black and longer than a pistol to the news and politicians it's an assault weapon! The only long gun I own right now is model 60 Marlin 22lr with a scope. 

And it will be classified as a weapon of mass destruction very soon by the media especially after this 
 

[A.J. Holst]

I too saw the video of the murderer shooting out the glass to obtain entry.

I met Wayne at a church security conference and learned about his security laminate product.

Thoughts it may be of interest and value to share

https://www.eversafe-usa.com/

 

 

[NoBanStan]

Speaking of church security, I also volunteer for the same at mine. Though we call it "safety" as we're also first responders. Carry insurance has been on my list of todo's because of it. I'm noticing that not all plans cover you being an "agent of a house of worship". The ones that do are quite a bit higher per month. I think it's due to the liability.

So if you're doing this, like I am... make sure you're looking into how to cover yourself in case you ever have to go to work (I pray it never happens for any of us).

[hipower]

5 hours ago, BigK said:

I couldn't possibly agree with you more, especially that we should not abandon hope, even in this time of grief. 

Hope is what gives us the strength to go on. I pray for it daily. Hope and strength to walk thru this garden we have inherited. I come across as a dark and pessimistic person most times. I don't deny that. Sadly it's a part of my nature. I do work to change it and myself; but it is a daily challenge for me.

But I still am able to see the good in people and this life. I just pray for more good, and less evil.

[MacGyver]

There are some things I’m going to keep private out of respect - but by all accounts one of the children acted in a truly heroic manner.  Lives were almost certainly saved because of it.

These children acted like they were trained.

Lord bless them and keep them all. 

[Fourtyfive]

4 hours ago, m16ty said:

In my opinion the days of carrying sub-compacts and pocket pistols are past. At one time you could likely get by with these smaller firearms, because you were most likely to encounter a single bad guy (or girl in this situation) at very close quarters. Now I won't carry anything but a full size 9mm minimum.   

I'm on our church security team and I've been trying to figure out how to carry a AR without freaking some of the members out.

Just finished this one today, a little SBR can fit under the arm with a sport coat. You might want a smaller magazine, that’s a 40.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Fourtyfive

[TGO David]

11 hours ago, NoBanStan said:

Speaking of church security, I also volunteer for the same at mine. Though we call it "safety" as we're also first responders. Carry insurance has been on my list of todo's because of it. I'm noticing that not all plans cover you being an "agent of a house of worship". The ones that do are quite a bit higher per month. I think it's due to the liability.

So if you're doing this, like I am... make sure you're looking into how to cover yourself in case you ever have to go to work (I pray it never happens for any of us).

US Law Shield does.  CCWSafe does but only for their top tier package.

I have US Law Shield right now but have been considering a move to CCWSafe based on recommendations of other folks that I trust.

[TGO David]

Guys, on the topic of carrying something more than a concealed handgun as part of your church security/safety team kit, please consult with your team's leader first.  And then consult with a legitimate training organization on the practicality of it and, if you decide to go forward, get legitimate training from a reputable trainer on how to employ a carbine-caliber weapon in CQB - especially CQB with crowds of people.

I don't want to be hateful but this is serious business and I'm afraid that this could devolve into some serious Mall Ninja bull#### if not done properly.

Running a carbine in CQB is a unique skillset and it brings along with it a whole new level of ballistics considerations.  You have to train accordingly.

[TripleGGG]

13 minutes ago, TGO David said:

US Law Shield does.  CCWSafe does but only for their top tier package.

I have US Law Shield right now but have been considering a move to CCWSafe based on recommendations of other folks that I trust.

I have top tier with CCWSafe and also ACLDN. 

[Grayfox54]

I use Imgur.com as my photo host. They also have a huge public area where folks post memes, cartoons, jokes, etc.  Lots of funny stuff  and I've gotten a lot of good laughs there. Much of which I post here in the Memes thread. I generally check it out every day. 

However, its also used by radical liberals to bad mouth republicans and push their woke agenda. Trump is their favorite target. 

 After this school shooting they've gone completely bat poop crazy with their gun control crap and especially about banning assault weapons. The sight is plumb full of it right now.   They're getting down right nasty about it too.  They're stirring up a poop storm, so be aware. I fear we're in for a real fight this time. 

[NoBanStan]

50 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I use Imgur.com as my photo host. They also have a huge public area where folks post memes, cartoons, jokes, etc.  Lots of funny stuff  and I've gotten a lot of good laughs there. Much of which I post here in the Memes thread. I generally check it out every day. 

However, its also used by radical liberals to bad mouth republicans and push their woke agenda. Trump is their favorite target. 

 After this school shooting they've gone completely bat poop crazy with their gun control crap and especially about banning assault weapons. The sight is plumb full of it right now.   They're getting down right nasty about it too.  They're stirring up a poop storm, so be aware. I fear we're in for a real fight this time. 

Imgur has been that way forever. I quit lurking there at the same time i quit reading reddit. Got tired of being called the devil every day on the front page, while watching them cheerlead anti-Christian and "new-age lifestyle".

Thanks, but i'll find my funny elsewhere.... it was the only reason i showed up anyway...

[bersaguy]

14 hours ago, Sleep profit said:

And it will be classified as a weapon of mass destruction very soon by the media especially after this 
 

I expect you are correct SP because the tube magazine holds 17 rounds which is more than they want to allow. They want 10 max. The main issue with the people wanting to take the guns from law abiding folks is the gun grabbers don't know anything about them. They blame to gun for killing people when it is the person with it doing the killing. The gun is nothing more than a tool.

[bersaguy]

I read an article this morning that was a news interview from her doctor about her emotional issue and he said she should never have been able to buy a gun. That being said means she had to have lied on her application to .purchase at some point. She purchased 7 guns in I think 3 or 4 weeks at 5 different stores. 

[btq96r]

8 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I read an article this morning that was a news interview from her doctor about her emotional issue and he said she should never have been able to buy a gun. That being said means she had to have lied on her application to .purchase at some point. She purchased 7 guns in I think 3 or 4 weeks at 5 different stores. 

That will just be used as evidence the current system isn't sufficient to keep guns away from the mentally ill, and more control/restrictions are needed.

Not sure how comfortable I am with mental health professionals entering patient data into a federal and/or state system.  Especially as it might stop people from getting help when they need it, even if they aren't the type that would do this.  Where do we draw the line at personal privacy and public safety?

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by btq96r

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, Grayfox54 said:

I use Imgur.com as my photo host. They also have a huge public area where folks post memes, cartoons, jokes, etc.  Lots of funny stuff  and I've gotten a lot of good laughs there. Much of which I post here in the Memes thread. I generally check it out every day. 

However, its also used by radical liberals to bad mouth republicans and push their woke agenda. Trump is their favorite target. 

 After this school shooting they've gone completely bat poop crazy with their gun control crap and especially about banning assault weapons. The sight is plumb full of it right now.   They're getting down right nasty about it too.  They're stirring up a poop storm, so be aware. I fear we're in for a real fight this time. 

Yeah, I solely use it for image hosting. Don’t even bother looking around it anymore. Do my best to click in and out before I even have a chance to see the mess of a cesspool that place is. 

[Snaveba]

Based on that, and the fact that it is easy to lie on the background check, what do folks now think about “red flag” laws of some type. If the doctor had been able to flag the system based on his diagnoses, then she would have been rejected. That doesn’t mean she would not have acquired a firearm in some other manner.

I know this is a slippery slope, and I don’t know where I stand on the issue right now. But if flagging her was possible, and if the law required that all gun transfers went through a background check, it would have been more difficult for her to get a firearm. The thing is, even with all that in place, if someone who can’t own a firearm really wants a firearm, they will find a way.

The question then is how badly did this shooter really want to do this. Would these obstacles been enough to have prevented this tragedy. 

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, btq96r said:

That will just be used as evidence the current system isn't sufficient to keep guns away from the mentally ill, and more control/restrictions are needed.

Not sure how comfortable I am with mental health professionals entering patient data into a federal and/or state system.  Especially as it might stop people from getting help when they need it, even if they aren't the type that would do this.  Where do we draw the line at personal privacy and public safety?

 

This brings me back to a position of making it easier for family being able to involuntarily get folks help along with state support of mental healthcare resources. 

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

Based on that, and the fact that it is easy to lie on the background check, what do folks now think about “red flag” laws of some type. If the doctor had been able to flag the system based on his diagnoses, then she would have been rejected. That doesn’t mean she would not have acquired a firearm in some other manner.

I know this is a slippery slope, and I don’t know where I stand on the issue right now. But if flagging her was possible, and if the law required that all gun transfers went through a background check, it would have been more difficult for her to get a firearm. The thing is, even with all that in place, if someone who can’t own a firearm really wants a firearm, they will find a way.

The question then is how badly did this shooter really want to do this. Would these obstacles been enough to have prevented this tragedy. 

I do have grave concerns about red flag laws, because there is no real due process there. In addition, if it’s a situation where somebody is so unsafe to have access to firearms, then they are not safe to be in public at all. They should be in a place where they are receiving the treatment that they need to help them function in society safely. 

[Snaveba]

I can agree that if a medical professional thinks that a patient’s mental state is such that they pose a danger (to themselves or others) by owning a firearm then they should likely be under monitored care.

Now this becomes a medical/insurance treatment issue as well. And maybe (probably) that is really the bigger issue here that needs to be addressed. I feel fairly certain that “we” understand it was not the firearm that made this happen, it was the tool used. 

[bersaguy]

15 hours ago, Alleycat72 said:

You need an HK mp5k. It'll fit under your jacket. People will know you have it, but It'll be out of sight out of mind. It will not be comfortable and it will not defeat body armor, but getting shot in body armor will change most people's minds. 

Your right on the body armor @Alleycat72. The bad guy chose that target not expecting any one being armed and shooting back. That will normally send a shooting running away....JMHO

[gregintenn]

Red flag laws will be the weapon of choice for ex wives/jilted girlfriends as well as pissed off neighbors. Just imagine your home being raided and firearms confiscated simply because your neighbor didn’t like some small thing you did and made a call on you.

If an adult can’t be trusted with a firearm, should they be in public at all?

[Snaveba]

I know that all of us on the TGO don’t have the same opinions and political leanings, and that we also respect the rules regarding too much political discourse in threads. 

But I am glad this discussion has not de-evolved into just bashing one side or the other. I am on the MarlinOwner Forum, and the only thread I have seen regarding this tragedy is fairly ugly and one sided and conspiracy filled. I tried to post to it and just had to delete and step away  

Thank you all for your restraint if you do have strong opinions one way or the other. 
 

 

[Snaveba]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

Red flag laws will be the weapon of choice for ex wives/jilted girlfriends as well as pissed off neighbors. Just imagine your home being raided and firearms confiscated simply because your neighbor didn’t like some small thing you did and made a call on you.

If an adult can’t be trusted with a firearm, should they be in public at all?

Well, I am not at all for a red flag law that can be implemented by a neighbor or ex, or disgruntled a$$. But if someone is under the care of a medical professional, and that professional feels they are a danger, at least there is some weight there. But still, that can be manipulated and abused. 

[BigK]

I'm not opposed to a method for medical professionals to report patients they feel present a danger to themselves or others, but I am opposed depriving someone of due process as a result.  If that report temporarily flags them for TICS that's less egregious until the flag is cleared, I'm fine with it. I'm not fine with showing up to take someone into custody and seizing their private property until they can prove themselves innocent.