school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Snaveba said:

It is my opinion that one reason the PD is now reluctant is because they have been asked to release everything. This means everything. If they release the EVERYTHING they release Information about how children were shot, personal information about the children, body cam footage of the children. I know I would not want that information out about a child I lost. 
 

also, there is I am sure lots of extraneous body cam footage not pertinent to the issues at hand. IMO,  asking for the release of everything is just voyeuristic. The Nashville PD is not “hiding” things. 

As someone who’s read a bunch of manifestos over the years professionally, I can say what I’m about to say with absolute certainty.

Whatever it is that anyone is hoping to find in the shooter’s writings - you're going to be disappointed.

You’re not going to understand it - because there’s nothing to be logically understood. You’re not going to find a reason - because the reason was this person was terribly broken in a way that we don’t - and can’t  understand.

 The manifesto is a red herring - allowing politicians to distract people by calling for their release.

There are a lot of reasons not to release it.  One, like @Snaveba mentioned above - they contain a lot of truly graphic stuff that serves no public good by its release - and may take the trauma victims have suffered and make it worse. Look at what Sandy Hook parents have had to deal with for the last decade, and you’ll understand why they don’t want it released.

But second, and more importantly we don’t release manifestos because there are broken people out there who that stuff *does* inspire. 

[leroy]

32 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

As someone who’s read a bunch of manifestos over the years professionally, I can say what I’m about to say with absolute certainty.

Whatever it is that anyone is hoping to find in the shooter’s writings - you're going to be disappointed.

You’re not going to understand it - because there’s nothing to be logically understood. ...

But second, and more importantly we don’t release manifestos because there are broken people out there who that stuff *does* inspire. 

I tend to agree here.  This child who did this crime was insane.  Coherent statements from insane folks are very rare.  Let the murdered rest, those affected be respected, and the " notoriety " of this calamity be minimized.  I'ma thinkin it's kindest thing ya can do...

Leroy...

[pop pop]

My prayers are and have been with these victims and their families, however local news mentions this event, as sad as it was, every night since it has happened. They will not let it die because they want to influence the public, and TN Government to ban guns, IMO. Sad use of a public trust. (the air waves). Media is a small part of the problem by publicizing these events. Mental illness is a major problem in these events. 

Edited to add; Dare I mention "Gun Free Zones."

Edited May 5, 2023 by pop pop

[BigK]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Repeating this over and over doesn't make it true. The law was garbage and what this shooter did was pure evil. I don't really care about her motives. It won't change anything. 

On the contrary, it would be true even if @RED333 didn't repeat it. Sexually mutilating children and flaunting sexual deviance in front of small children should be so obviously wrong that it doesn't require a law, but some people are so sick that laws have to exist to stop them.

[Grayfox54]

I'm just passing along what the e-mail said. I admit to being curious as to her motives, but the rest I'm not really concerned about. 

[bersaguy]

1 hour ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm just passing along what the e-mail said. I admit to being curious as to her motives, but the rest I'm not really concerned about. 

I'm not sure the shooter really had a true defined motive for the actions that happened that day. I think the shooter just wanted to kill someone and shoot up things. There was a lot of shooting starting with the doors to gain entrance, then 6 innocent people then shooting at a police officer that went to get his radio which was a blessing in disguise cause that was what led the police to learn shooter was on the second floor. I do wish the TV news would get passed it and quit showing the pictures of the victims as it is like rubbing salt in the wounds of the families....JMHO

[Luckyforward]

8 hours ago, MacGyver said:

As someone who’s read a bunch of manifestos over the years professionally, I can say what I’m about to say with absolute certainty.

Whatever it is that anyone is hoping to find in the shooter’s writings - you're going to be disappointed.

You’re not going to understand it - because there’s nothing to be logically understood. You’re not going to find a reason - because the reason was this person was terribly broken in a way that we don’t - and can’t  understand.

 The manifesto is a red herring - allowing politicians to distract people by calling for their release.

There are a lot of reasons not to release it.  One, like @Snaveba mentioned above - they contain a lot of truly graphic stuff that serves no public good by its release - and may take the trauma victims have suffered and make it worse. Look at what Sandy Hook parents have had to deal with for the last decade, and you’ll understand why they don’t want it released.

But second, and more importantly we don’t release manifestos because there are broken people out there who that stuff *does* inspire. 

Everything stated here is right on target.  As a therapist I have had to read and clinically process manifestos and various writings of persons before and after their death. You never get a well written, well documented "reason" for what the person did.  99.9% is illogical because it is wrapped in the reality of the writer, which only they understand.  

As to releasing this information, it has two results.  It makes a lot of hurting people who are already asking "Why?" hurt even more because there is no comprehensible answer.  Second, emotional healing is like a cut; over time an emotional "scab" forms over the heart and soul.  When a great deal of ambiguous information is released it tears the "scab" from people who are suffering in unimaginable ways, and they have to start the healing process all over again . . .

[AuEagle]

Watch Live: First Three Pages Of Transgender School Shooter's Manifesto Leaked | ZeroHedge

 

We have obtained EXCLUSIVE access to the Nashville Covenant shooter's manifesto - Louder With Crowder

Edited November 6, 2023 by AuEagle

[Snaveba]

I do wish the “right” would stop pushing the whole “transgender”  narrative. There was nothing on those three pages that mention or allude to anything having to do with the shooter’s gender playing any role in the shooting. 

[Snaveba]

Additionally, the pages published even mention almost getting caught in 2021. Hale hadn’t even started using a male name at that time. Her intentions long predated all the transgender BS in the news before the shooting. 

[Snaveba]

She was just a broken, angry person who took out her anger on innocent kids and teachers. 

[gregintenn]

3 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

I do wish the “right” would stop pushing the whole “transgender”  narrative. There was nothing on those three pages that mention or allude to anything having to do with the shooter’s gender playing any role in the shooting. 

I don’t know…it’s just one more thing that points to mental illness. The more things you see forming a pattern, the clearer it becomes. It is a shame this child could not have gotten some sort of help.

[Danger Rane]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

I don’t know…it’s just one more thing that points to mental illness. The more things you see forming a pattern, the clearer it becomes. It is a shame this child could not have gotten some sort of help.

Respectfully, she was 28. While she certainly was somebody’s child, I think that some of you that keep referring to her as a child are (probably unintentionally) mitigating the severity of what she as an adult did to those actual children and teachers. I remember a time when a teenager would be tried as an adult if the crime was even less heinous than this, and now we are living in a time that the CDC considers 18-19 year old thugs that are killing each other “children” to pad their gun control agenda numbers. I don’t think you intended to insinuate that, but within our community which is very much under attack in part due to this animals actions, I think the language matters.

I definitely agree with you about her signs of mental illness, and while her self identified status did not appear to be at play in the manifesto, I definitely think it is relevant to the overall picture of instability and hate that consumed her.

[Luckyforward]

My professional "guess" is that she suffered from Schizoaffective Disorder.  Treatment would require medication with the hope of achieving mood stabilization that would allow therapy to be effective.  Stopping medications at any time would endanger the loss of whatever stability the patient may achieve.

Criteria for schizophrenia must be met in every case, even if temporarily. For this, two or more of the following symptoms must be present for an uninterrupted period of time:

1. delusions
2. disorganized speech
3. hallucinations
4. disorganized or catatonic behavior
5. negative symptoms (e.g., loss of pleasure, flat expressions, lack of motivation)

But that’s not all. These criteria must also be evident for a doctor to diagnose schizoaffective disorder:

1. having hallucinations or delusions without mood symptoms for a period of 2 or more consecutive weeks
2. experiencing a major mood episode like depression or mania
3. having mood symptoms that are present for most of the duration of the condition
4. having symptoms that are not explained by substance use, like drugs or alcohol consumption

In sum, schizoaffective disorder affects your mood, thoughts, and behavior.

Also see:

https://www.nami.org/About-Mental-Illness/Mental-Health-Conditions/Schizoaffective-Disorder

[Erik88]

2 minutes ago, Luckyforward said:

My professional "guess" is that she suffered from Schizoaffective Disorder

Is there any data on what percentage of those with that illness become violent? Guessing fairly low? 

[Omega]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I don’t know…it’s just one more thing that points to mental illness. The more things you see forming a pattern, the clearer it becomes. It is a shame this child could not have gotten some sort of help.

She is cured now.

I feel that she was fed a bunch of anti-white, anti-wealthy crap somewhere in her educational and or social media experience that had her hating herself and those she had come to hate.

[Luckyforward]

2 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Is there any data on what percentage of those with that illness become violent? Guessing fairly low? 

Great question:

Background

Although most people with psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder are not violent, there is an association between psychotic disorders and violence, and with homicide in particular [1, 2]. Patients with schizophrenia are ten times more likely to commit homicide than a member of the general population [1]. However, the proportion of homicides in society attributable to schizophrenia is small and consistently falls below 10% [3, 4]. Also patients with schizophrenia are themselves fourteen times more likely to become victims of violence in the community, compared with being arrested as a perpetrator [5]. Notwithstanding these findings, understanding the relationship between psychosis and violence is important because it may help reduce violence within this population, save lives, and prevent patients becoming stigmatized by an act of violence arising from their mental disorder.

https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-019-2372-4#:~:text=Although most people with psychotic,particular [1%2C 2].

From:Moral cognition, the missing link between psychotic symptoms and acts of violence: a cross-sectional national forensic cohort study

[gregintenn]

I think it would be enlightening to be able to see exactly what medications each mass shooter had in their system.

[Luckyforward]

30 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I think it would be enlightening to be able to see exactly what medications each mass shooter had in their system.

Below are the medication regimens for this disorder.  I am curious to see if the meds were in her system in terms of whether she was actually taking them.  So often folks refuse to take their medications and by law you cannot make them take them which leads to very quick mental declines.

Medications

In general, doctors prescribe medications for schizoaffective disorder to relieve psychotic symptoms, stabilize mood and treat depression. These medications may include:

• Antipsychotics. The only medication approved by the Food and Drug Administration specifically for the treatment of schizoaffective disorder is the antipsychotic drug paliperidone (Invega). However, doctors may prescribe other antipsychotic drugs to help manage psychotic symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations.
• Mood-stabilizing medications. When the schizoaffective disorder is bipolar type, mood stabilizers can help level out the mania highs and depression lows.
• Antidepressants. When depression is the underlying mood disorder, antidepressants can help manage feelings of sadness, hopelessness, or difficulty with sleep and concentration.

[Luckyforward]

55 minutes ago, Luckyforward said:

Below are the medication regimens for this disorder.  I am curious to see if the meds were in her system in terms of whether she was actually taking them.  So often folks refuse to take their medications and by law you cannot make them take them which leads to very quick mental declines.

Medications

In general, doctors prescribe medications for schizoaffective disorder to relieve psychotic symptoms, stabilize mood and treat depression. These medications may include:

• Antipsychotics. The only medication approved by the Food and Drug Administration specifically for the treatment of schizoaffective disorder is the antipsychotic drug paliperidone (Invega). However, doctors may prescribe other antipsychotic drugs to help manage psychotic symptoms such as delusions and hallucinations.
• Mood-stabilizing medications. When the schizoaffective disorder is bipolar type, mood stabilizers can help level out the mania highs and depression lows.
• Antidepressants. When depression is the underlying mood disorder, antidepressants can help manage feelings of sadness, hopelessness, or difficulty with sleep and concentration.

I forgot to mention the possibility of any other mood altering drugs in her system.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Luckyforward

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Luckyforward said:

I forgot to mention the possibility of any other mood altering drugs in her system.

That’s sort of what I was getting at. We are a very overmedicated nation. It seems reasonable that someone would be interested in finding out whether there is a particular drug, or combination of drugs commonly found in association with these occurrences.

Sadly, the government has chosen to blame firearms and seems interested in looking  no further.

[pop pop]

The Nashville media is fixated on this story. Feel sorry for all involved, including the shooters parents. Prayers

[leroy]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

That’s sort of what I was getting at. We are a very overmedicated nation. It seems reasonable that someone would be interested in finding out whether there is a particular drug, or combination of drugs commonly found in association with these occurrences.

Sadly, the government has chosen to blame firearms and seems interested in looking  no further.

We have a good friend who has studied the " mass shooting medication " thing quite a bit over the years. 

There is one common thread. Early use of Ridlin.  Neither medical profession nor the school folks will touch this issue.

Be careful what ya allow the doctors n school system to prescribe for your kids and grandkids.  These kids are yours.  

leroy...

Edited November 7, 2023 by leroy

[btq96r]

Anyone gain something other than confirmation bias with the manifesto portions released?

[Omega]

34 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Anyone gain something other than confirmation bias with the manifesto portions released?

I did.  I had thought this was more of a retaliation thing against the school for her perceived treatment, but learned that she was just a cold hearted bitch that had swallowed the current socialist messaging hook line and sinker.