school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School

[BigK]

2 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I don't guess anyone liked the plain clothes cops in schools idea huh?

I prefer the visual deterrent of a uniformed officer, personally.

[Grayfox54]

 Open and honest discussion is fine. The point being to find a middle ground both sides can live with.  A compromise. This requires some give and take from both parties. We know what the antis want from us. But what exactly have they got to offer us in return? 

[deerslayer]

17 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

Your relationship with police is very different from kids growing up in the poorer parts of town.   

Actually, I grew up in the poorer part of town. 

[bersaguy]

3 minutes ago, BigK said:

I prefer the visual deterrent of a uniformed officer, personally.

I would agree except he would be the first person shot by a shooter and he would not know that the plain clothes that were on the scene and shooting at the shooter would be more effective.

[deerslayer]

5 minutes ago, TGO David said:

It's almost like a person's upbringing factors into how they perceive the police.

Exactly, if the SRO tries to clown or joke around with kids and they refuse to participate because they are told “all cops are bad” at home, whose fault is that?

[bersaguy]

3 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Exactly, if the SRO tries to clown or joke around with kids and they refuse to participate because they are told “all cops are bad” at home, whose fault is that?

I have had friends that had school age kids and they had an SRO at their school and they liked him and said he was pretty cool but then they were not told that all cops are bad at home either. 

[BigK]

7 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I would agree except he would be the first person shot by a shooter and he would not know that the plain clothes that were on the scene and shooting at the shooter would be more effective.

I definitely appreciate the idea of being incognito too. That's why I personally NEVER choose to open carry. I suspect more criminals will walk away from a crime when they see a cop if it's an either/or decision only. 

[TGO David]

8 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Exactly, if the SRO tries to clown or joke around with kids and they refuse to participate because they are told “all cops are bad” at home, whose fault is that?

I would say that it also matters what they are told about the police by their peers, their community.  But, yes.

This is vicious cycle, unfortunately.  All of it.  In the 26 pages of this thread so far, I have read a staggering number of responses that amount to addressing the symptoms of a problem, but not many things that get to the actual root of the problem.

Our culture is broken because we've allowed it to become broken.  This occurred over literal generations of lifetimes, not all at once.  We're perhaps seeing the decline of our culture accelerating now because the rate of decay has reached critical mass and changes are happening faster now than ever before, but it certainly did not all happen overnight.

 

[BigK]

2 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I have had friends that had school age kids and they had an SRO at their school and they liked him and said he was pretty cool but then they were not told that all cops are bad at home either. 

I agree 100%, sir. My youngest was in trouble at school all the time, but she loved the SRO even when he was fussing at her or stopping her from doing something wrong (trying to find a place to smoke or trying to ditch school). She was NOT taught that cops are the enemy.

[Sleep profit]

13 minutes ago, TGO David said:

It's almost like a person's upbringing factors into how they perceive the police.

Upbringing and values As far as talking to the other side I think we hear from some left leaning individuals or at least sympathetic to them with different views on this forum  so yes I hear their views I doubt we will ever see things the same though 

[Capbyrd]

2 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I would say that it also matters what they are told about the police by their peers, their community.  But, yes.

This is vicious cycle, unfortunately.  All of it.  In the 26 pages of this thread so far, I have read a staggering number of responses that amount to addressing the symptoms of a problem, but not many things that get to the actual root of the problem.

Our culture is broken because we've allowed it to become broken.  This occurred over literal generations of lifetimes, not all at once.  We're perhaps seeing the decline of our culture accelerating now because the rate of decay has reached critical mass and changes are happening faster now than ever before, but it certainly did not all happen overnight.

 

Mane this is close to what I was trying to say!!!

[BigK]

1 minute ago, Sleep profit said:

Upbringing and values As far as talking to the other side I think we hear from some left leaning individuals or at least sympathetic to them with different views on this forum  so yes I hear their views I doubt we will ever see things the same though 

Remember when it was okay to not see things the same? We used to have this thing you're talking about called humanit. Wasn't that nice?

[bersaguy]

3 minutes ago, BigK said:

I definitely appreciate the idea of being incognito too. That's why I personally NEVER choose to open carry. I suspect more criminals will walk away from a crime when they see a cop if it's an either/or decision only. 

I never open carry either because I think a gunman will make you their first target.  As far as a shooter in a school They went there to kill people and 1 SRO officer won't be a deterrent if he shoots the SRO first IMO.

[bersaguy]

19 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I would say that it also matters what they are told about the police by their peers, their community.  But, yes.

This is vicious cycle, unfortunately.  All of it.  In the 26 pages of this thread so far, I have read a staggering number of responses that amount to addressing the symptoms of a problem, but not many things that get to the actual root of the problem.

Our culture is broken because we've allowed it to become broken.  This occurred over literal generations of lifetimes, not all at once.  We're perhaps seeing the decline of our culture accelerating now because the rate of decay has reached critical mass and changes are happening faster now than ever before, but it certainly did not all happen overnight.

 

I must agree with David on most of what he has said. Our society has fallen off a cliff and holding on to a small branch from going all the way to the bottom. In all reality I believe until something is done to correct the mental issues all the gun laws in the world won't fix the problem. If a mental person wants to kill people they will find a weapon to use. Everything from a knife to a car or truck. The biggest mass murderers used airplanes on 9/11.

[OldIronFan]

We might not like to think of it this way but a uniformed SRO being the first target could be considered a good thing. 
a) it takes time away from the shooter being able to find innocent children or teachers as their target.
b) a trained SRO/LEO stands a much better chance of slowing or even stopping a shooter than a student or teacher. They might not always stop them but there is more of an opportunity to do so if the shooter is seeking the SRO out. 
c) any delay the SRO may be able to create gives that much more time for additional LEO to arrive on scene and react. 
d) I would hazard a guess that many SRO's would gladly risk their life as the first target if it meant fewer or better yet no innocent lives were lost that day. 

[MacGyver]

This video has serious "it's not a toll road, it's a choice road" vibes.

I post it here not to make a comment on Red Flag laws - we can do that elsewhere.  Rather, I post it as an example of a representative who must just think his voters aren't that smart.  

That's all.

[deerslayer]

8 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

This video has serious "it's not a toll road, it's a choice road" vibes.

I post it here not to make a comment on Red Flag laws - we can do that elsewhere.  Rather, I post it as an example of a representative who must just think his voters aren't that smart.  

That's all.

I guess my question is what is the difference, if any, between Lee’s order of protection law and a red flag law. 

[Chucktshoes]

10 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

I guess my question is what is the difference, if any, between Lee’s order of protection law and a red flag law. 

Well, ones a red flag law, and this isn’t that. We can provide details of what it is at a later time but it’s definitely not a red flag law it’s just a way to ensure that folks we think shouldn’t have access to guns and be prohibited from having them. But there will be due process, all the due process. The best due process you can have. But it’s not a red flag law. It isn’t even a bill yet. 

[deerslayer]

8 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Well, ones a red flag law, and this isn’t that. We can provide details of what it is at a later time but it’s definitely not a red flag law it’s just a way to ensure that folks we think shouldn’t have access to guns and be prohibited from having them. But there will be due process, all the due process. The best due process you can have. But it’s not a red flag law. It isn’t even a bill yet. 

Yeah I’m a bit skeptical too. 

[Erik88]

35 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Rather, I post it as an example of a representative who must just think his voters aren't that smart.  

He is my representative. I already wrote him an email last week over his vote to expel the two Democrats. I considered keeping it simple and only sending him a picture of Red Forman calling him a dumbass. 

 

 

 

[MacGyver]

As to the, “there’s not a bill yet” - Bob Freeman and Heidi Campbell filed one last week. 

I’m not certain - but I think this would fall under “late bill” criteria - meaning the Speaker, the Majority Leader, and the Minority Leader would have to unanimously agree to take it up.

Sexton wants to be Governor awfully bad.  I don’t know that he’d go for it - even after last week.  

[Garufa]

4 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Sexton wants to be Governor awfully bad.  I don’t know that he’d go for it - even after last week.  

Well, he does live in the Tennessee district.

[No_0ne]

4 hours ago, BigK said:

I prefer the visual deterrent of a uniformed officer, personally.

This^.  Uniformed officer, highly visible, with a patrol car parked out front.  At one point, schools with such an arrangement had never suffered any shooting events.  That has since changed, but only slightly, the vast majority of school shootings occur only in institutions without a visible police or SRO presence.  Most potential shooters will seek out (perceived) easier targets ...

[Erik88]

26 minutes ago, No_0ne said:

This^.  Uniformed officer, highly visible, with a patrol car parked out front. 

That exact scenario was parked in front of Pulse Nightclub in Orlando. 

[Luckyforward]

I am hazarding my own opinion here, and not as a point of debate.  I am only sharing my thoughts.

How much progress can we make until we may share an enlightened dialogue without name calling?  How can we "talk" when we use labels for each other rather than "gentlemanly disagreement?"  

How do we define the worth of other persons?  Are persons worthy only when they agree with us?  Are persons worthy only when our perspectives match?  Are persons worth only when "we" are against "them"?

Or are all persons worthy because they are also made in the image of God?  We may not agree on things, and we may have difficulty talking about issues, but at the end of the day, we hold respect for one another whether or not we agree on all topics, but at the very foundation of relationship, we are all humans.

 "It takes a different value system if you wish to change the world."

 Jacque Fresco

Again, I am NOT trying to provoke an argument or be confrontive to anyone.  We may be diverse, but we may also share respect for one another.  I've never met anyone from TGO, but I would like to think if I did, we could talk about things, agree and disagree, shake hands, and walk away as friends based on our mutual esteem for each other as persons and not merely on our shared perspectives.