school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School

[NoBanStan]

My son is a highschooler. He said they had a walkout today and some people were going to Nashville.

He said "i'm not going anywhere" and stayed in class.

[bersaguy]

I was laying in bed last night watching TV and the news came on and they talked about the storms for a few minutes and then switched to the shooting and showed pictures of the children and adults and began reporting the same stuff they reported all last week. My first thought was how do the victims families begin to heal when the news is still showing their pictures and keep talking about it?

We are talking about school security which is a subject that needs to be addressed and not posting about the Victims. It is my opinion that the news needs to move off that subject.

[Links2k]

11 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

It is my opinion that the news needs to move off that subject.

They will when they have a bigger story 

[pop pop]

The Governor just announced they are making funds available to put SRO in "all," public and private, Tn Schools and a couple other things which he is setting in motion. Another thing is it is TN law now that all school doors must be locked at all times. Plus they are doubling the Mental health staffa in all schools and some districts will have multiple mental healt professionals in them. Aklso every county will have a Homeland Security officer with duty specifically for school safty.

Tn Senator Marsha Blackburn and the other TN Senator has introduced a bill in congress to fund hiring Veterans to be trained as school guards for all schools also. 

Edited to add; This will not be enough to satisfy the protesters IMO>.

Edited April 3, 2023 by pop pop

[OldIronFan]

I never had kids, never planned to, and I still look at the portion of my taxes that go to public schools as a benefit to me. If you manage, own a business, or are responsible for hiring employees the public education system is (or should be)  tasked with turning out an educated and knowledgeable workforce. If you value intelligent and effective elected leaders the school system is (should be) tasked with turning out an informed electorate capable of critically evaluating candidates for office.
Many business leaders/owners make economic decisions like where to build, locate, or expand based on the education level of an areas work force. The better the primary, secondary and post secondary education systems are in an area the more of a draw it is for potential businesses and industry. 
The list goes on here but the bottom line is public education is a public benefit (again, should be) for the betterment of all citizens. I do not mind my taxes going to students who will hopefully be productive members of society and potential employees. I do not mind my tax dollars going to my nephews, my niece, or the neighbors kids that are in public schools because I want them to have a good education despite what their parents might be able to afford. 

Sure the current state of public school systems is not without flaws, often times significant, but the underlying goal is sound. It is execution that lacks. 

I am and will always remain an opponent to vouchers and the "school choice" movement. I am opposed to any public funds being channeled to private institutions. The choice that is always made is to pull funds from the least affluent communities for the benefit of the more affluent. I have had this discussion with public and private educators and there is not an argument to be made that will convince me otherwise. 

[peejman]

4 hours ago, NoBanStan said:

It stinks to think about having armed guards at a school... it really does.

Now let's face facts. it HAS to happen.

We have armed guards at sporting events, bars, churches, federal buildings, conventions, airports, etc. Why would school be any different? Any place with large gatherings of people have it, but NOT our most vulnerable group? It makes no sense.

Society can scream and bark all day long about how banning guns is the answer and yet they'll NEVER accomplish that. But putting one or two trained individuals on site absolutely can be accomplished (pretty quick I would imagine). Recognizing also that it will be the most boring job on the planet 99.999999999999% of the time.

Security doesn't have to mean armed guards. Most of these shooting have started with the perp just walking in. No perimeter, no controlled entry, no fancy scanners, nothing but doors that should have been locked.  I understand that schools shouldn't look like prisons, but most newer schools have very similar architecture. 

 

4 hours ago, monkeylizard said:

Not necessarily. At the high schools, SROs are busy all the time. A lot more goes on for them to deal with than the very rare active shooter. I suspect middle school is the same. Some kids at that middle school age are simply awful humans.

There's less going on for an SRO at elementary, but there's a lot more opportunity for positive interaction with the students to hopefully make them a little less awful in middle school.

Agreed. Both my kids had great interaction with the SRO's in their elementary school.  My youngest walked away wanting to be a cop.   The problem is the perception within the department.  The SRO job was viewed negatively by other cops. You're not considered a "real cop" when you're policing 9 yr olds all day.  Someone had to be assigned, no one would volunteer. Which is why they change person regularly. 

[Links2k]

18 minutes ago, pop pop said:

 

Edited to add; This will not be enough to satisfy the protesters IMO>.

I would assume that you are correct. The protesters aren’t asking for more guns in schools. They want guns removed from the communities, which we know isn’t going to happen. 

[hipower]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:13 AM, RED333 said:

Just a gut feeling, LEO is holding out the release because of the "reason" she used to do what she did. What the reason was, now just a WAG, the resent laws passed against drag shows and protection kids. Now a judge has over ridden the law.

My thoughts exactly. Early on, the Nashville Chief, in a presser, indicated he had read the Manifesto, but not finished it yet. He was still investigating it,and would not speculate on any reasons for the shooting.

I believe the shooting was completely in retaliation for the Tn laws just passed on the Drag Queen shows. The young lady was, I believe, mentally unbalanced, and wanted to bring attention to her cause. But that's no excuse for shooting children and staff.

Initially it was stated that a Canadian member of the LBGTQ etc, was in Nashville for the intended demonstration. I think the shooting scared her off. I've heard nothing else of her.

[hipower]

2 hours ago, NoBanStan said:

My son is a highschooler. He said they had a walkout today and some people were going to Nashville.

He said "i'm not going anywhere" and stayed in class.

Standing up for his beliefs. Good for him!

[btq96r]

21 hours ago, Hozzie said:

So shouldn’t those parents get back any taxes they paid?   Why not if so?  
 

And I despise when people say someone doesn’t “need” the money.  Who are you or anyone else to decide?   They may work 3 jobs so they can send their kids there.  Need has nothing to do with it.  Again, provide equal money to every kid and let the parents decide.  That is fair, no?  

Heck, we spend (waste) more money per kid than just about any other nation on school.  The fair share should be more than enough for any kid to find a good education if their parents gave a damn.  

No, they shouldn't.  They didn't pay taxes just to the school then and there for the kid they removed from it in favor of a private education.  This is a collective thing.  A while back, we decided schools should be publicly funded for everyone...same as roads, libraries, police and fire departments, and anything else along that train of thought.  Every parent with a kid in private school knew the way this works, and still elected for the private school.  I've got no issues with the way that decision came about because I recognize the value of a private education over a public one in a lot of cases.  But that doesn't absolve them from the collective contribution to public education.

A better way to look at this: schools are a way to ensure we have an economy a generation later.  Everyone who is holding a job today and producing something deemed of economic value to society is doing so because of a school.  Yes, homeschooling is responsible for some, private/religious schooling for more, but the overwhelming majority learned to read, write, do math, understand science, and history in a public school paid for by collective tax revenue.  This isn't a formulation that can be traced to whomever claims a child as a dependent on taxes...it's a whole effort.  We don't keep an economic foundation as a country without a public school system.

I'm not one to decide on how people spend their disposable income.  But if these private schools want security, it needs to come from their own coffers, not public ones.  It'll be up to the parents to decide if the added cost of security is the make or break line in the household budget.  I'm guessing it will be minimal...even in the scenario where someone is working 3 jobs to send their kid to a private school.  I just saw on Channel 5 one school started someone for security Thursday and the plan is to raise tuition and after school activity fees to pay for it.

There is a lot of debate to have on how much we spend for education, how it's used, and what it gets us.  But this debate I'm taling about is a binary choice of whether or not to use public funds for private institution security.

[Chucktshoes]

22 minutes ago, btq96r said:

No, they shouldn't.  They didn't pay taxes just to the school then and there for the kid they removed from it in favor of a private education.  This is a collective thing.  A while back, we decided schools should be publicly funded for everyone...same as roads, libraries, police and fire departments, and anything else along that train of thought.  Every parent with a kid in private school knew the way this works, and still elected for the private school.  I've got no issues with the way that decision came about because I recognize the value of a private education over a public one in a lot of cases.  But that doesn't absolve them from the collective contribution to public education.

A better way to look at this: schools are a way to ensure we have an economy a generation later.  Everyone who is holding a job today and producing something deemed of economic value to society is doing so because of a school.  Yes, homeschooling is responsible for some, private/religious schooling for more, but the overwhelming majority learned to read, write, do math, understand science, and history in a public school paid for by collective tax revenue.  This isn't a formulation that can be traced to whomever claims a child as a dependent on taxes...it's a whole effort.  We don't keep an economic foundation as a country without a public school system.

I'm not one to decide on how people spend their disposable income.  But if these private schools want security, it needs to come from their own coffers, not public ones.  It'll be up to the parents to decide if the added cost of security is the make or break line in the household budget.  I'm guessing it will be minimal...even in the scenario where someone is working 3 jobs to send their kid to a private school.  I just saw on Channel 5 one school started someone for security Thursday and the plan is to raise tuition and after school activity fees to pay for it.

There is a lot of debate to have on how much we spend for education, how it's used, and what it gets us.  But this debate I'm taling about is a binary choice of whether or not to use public funds for private institution security.

There are two things going on here, one of them is the debate on whether public funds should be spent to protect a private institution. That is a legitimate debate worth having.
 

The other thing is your view on the purpose and design of state funded public education. I would have to say that you bought a line of BS hook line and sinker. Because well, that’s what they’re selling to folks, that isn’t what they actually do and it was never their purpose to do so. Despite the best efforts and intentions of a lot of well-meaning teachers, education as a general rule, happens in spite of public schools, not because of them. They were never designed to educate people.

[Johnny Rotten]

22 hours ago, btq96r said:

Because you chose the parochial education for your kids.  That's your prerogative.  I'm open to vouchers for kids who couldn't afford tuition to a place like TCS, but this is giving money to a community that doesn't need it.  At TCS, tuition for their largest attendance group (K-4) is $16.300 per their website; it's clearly not appropriate for the government to give them the same levels of support public schools get when they have parents with means supporting their institution.

Believe me, I'll be happy if private schools source private security.  This isn't me thinking those kids don't deserve the protection, it's me thinking tax payments shouldn't cover it. The parents chose to remove their children to a supposedly better educational experience...the cost burden they assume doesn't stop at tuition and fees. 

Darn right I'd love that voucher, but that ship has sailed, and I got screwed over by Tn! after my kids graduated the 8th grade we (the wife) had a choice to send them to our county's HS, my wife choose otherwise, our county's school system sucked donkey balls, I kind of thought my kids would have difficulty's fitting into a different type of school system since they were pampered in the catholic school system, NOPE! the public school system didn't believe my kids grades and they had to test and prove it, both of my kids came into the 9th grade a head of their 11th graders...LOL, my kids graded in the 5% of their of metrics, my kids were thought math by a retired Navy Nuclear propulsion specialist vrs a blue haired schoolteacher waiting for her tender to kick in, since I live in X county and my kids went to Y county, we paid an addition $800+ bucks a yr for our kids to go to the next county over, dam that's 12yrs each in total of giving our kids the best education possible. sorry if I'm rambling but I work in manufacturing and I babysit for a living, I train retards (< bad choice of words), I just had 2 large glasses of whisky.  

[Johnny Rotten]

21 hours ago, Erik88 said:

My property taxes pay for more than just schools right? Roads, street lights, parks. I have no plans to have children and I've never felt I'm getting screwed because of that. 

Private schools are a for profit business as far as I know. Thinking that tax payers should fund their security needs doesn't make any sense to me. When movie theaters decide to have security they pay an off duty cop to be there. I'm not sure why a private school should be any different 

Your gas tax pays for the roads, maybe your property tax's pay for the other BS.

My church school in X county is poor I think, I know Nashville's system is way rich.

[Johnny Rotten]

4 hours ago, pop pop said:

The Governor just announced they are making funds available to put SRO in "all," public and private, Tn Schools and a couple other things which he is setting in motion. Another thing is it is TN law now that all school doors must be locked at all times. Plus they are doubling the Mental health staffa in all schools and some districts will have multiple mental healt professionals in them. Aklso every county will have a Homeland Security officer with duty specifically for school safty.

Tn Senator Marsha Blackburn and the other TN Senator has introduced a bill in congress to fund hiring Veterans to be trained as school guards for all schools also. 

Edited to add; This will not be enough to satisfy the protesters IMO>.

My wife is a teacher, she told me her HS will have 2 SRO as of today and every school in town will have 1 each 

[bersaguy]

1 hour ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Your gas tax pays for the roads, maybe your property tax's pay for the other BS.

My church school in X county is poor I think, I know Nashville's system is way rich.

What will pay the road repairs when all the electric Vehicles take over and the gas vehicles are almost non-existant? 

[Links2k]

12 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

What will pay the road repairs when all the electric Vehicles take over and the gas vehicles are almost non-existant? 

Probably a tax on public charging stations 

[bersaguy]

2 minutes ago, Links2k said:

Probably a tax on public charging stations 

Well considering the shape the roads are in the gas tax is not working very well.

[bersaguy]

5 hours ago, pop pop said:

The Governor just announced they are making funds available to put SRO in "all," public and private, Tn Schools and a couple other things which he is setting in motion. Another thing is it is TN law now that all school doors must be locked at all times. Plus they are doubling the Mental health staffa in all schools and some districts will have multiple mental healt professionals in them. Aklso every county will have a Homeland Security officer with duty specifically for school safty.

Tn Senator Marsha Blackburn and the other TN Senator has introduced a bill in congress to fund hiring Veterans to be trained as school guards for all schools also. 

Edited to add; This will not be enough to satisfy the protesters IMO>.

The locked doors means nothing. The doors at the school were all locked last Monday and the shooter shot her way through them.

[Links2k]

2 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

There are two things going on here, one of them is the debate on whether public funds should be spent to protect a private institution. That is a legitimate debate worth having.
 

  “education as a general rule, happens in spite of public schools, not because of them.” 

[Links2k]

5 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Well considering the shape the roads are in the gas tax is not working very well.

More like politicians spending too much time on social issues instead of actually performing their duties. It seems that politicians prefer to promote outrage as opposed to tending to the needs of their constituents. 

[papa61]

5 hours ago, Links2k said:

I would assume that you are correct. The protesters aren’t asking for more guns in schools. They want guns removed from the communities, which we know isn’t going to happen. 

One of the protesters at the Capitol had a sign reading "I'm safer here than in class" This shows So much. I would feel safer surrounded by armed state police and security.

 

As far as vouchers, I would support the idea. Back years ago parochial schools spent less per student, had smaller classes, and produced more college grads. Our schools have gotten too large and unfortunately are not preparing our children for life. Not sure where we are headed but it isn't where we should be.

Lastly, luck, fate, or the hand of God was there, 152 rounds fired, 6 lives lost.

[Johnny Rotten]

,

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Johnny Rotten

[Johnny Rotten]

40 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

What will pay the road repairs when all the electric Vehicles take over and the gas vehicles are almost non-existant? 

EV thread

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, btq96r said:

But if these private schools want security, it needs to come from their own coffers, not public ones. 

I guess Metro PD should have stayed off of Covenant's property and waited for a private Blackwater-type security force to show up and handle the situation.  Publicly funded police departments should stay the hell out of protecting rich private school kids, right @btq96r?  If their tuition doesn't cover private security, then #### 'em.

 

[RED333]

Governor Lee is  asking for public funds to put SROs in all schools, public and private. I for one will not have an issue with it.

https://www.wdef.com/governor-lee-announces-school-safety-plan/

The Governor is proposing $140 million dollars go towards placing an armed guard in every school in Tennessee.

Governor Lee said, “With this funding we’re taking the burden off of teachers and school and districts. There is no excuse to not have a guard at every school.”

He wants to establish a grant fund totaling nearly $30 million dollars that he says would help both public and private schools make security upgrades.

Additionally, the Governor is proposing $8 million dollars to go towards mental health resources to schools across the state.