school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School

[m16ty]

I've been trying to find the data but I've been having a hard time finding it, I think on purpose. 

What I've been trying to find is the actual numbers of kids being innocently murdered. Everything is lumped together to make a higher number. Once you take out suicides, accidents, and gang activity, the actual number of kids murdered by firearms each year is pretty low. I'm trying to compare those numbers, or the numbers of kids killed by "assault weapons"  to the amount kids killed by drunk drivers.  Once I find this data I'm going to point out the fact to my anti or on the fence "friends" that nobody seems to care or talk about banning alcohol, because we know that it wasn't the Budweiser that did it, it was the guy that decided to drink and drive. 

There were 5 other kids and 1 adult also killed in TN recently, a car wreck on I24. Nobody wants to talk about things like that much.  

Gang activity is also a big killer in places like Chicago. I think this is why they group 18-19 year old in the children statistics, because it inflates the number a bunch due to gang activity. 

Also look at abortions. There were over 600,000 children killed legally killed though abortion last year, the number one killer of children by a long shot. A argument can be made that the only thing different in abortions and the kids killed at Covenant is the ones at Covenant were wanted.  

[GlockSpock]

59 minutes ago, Daniel said:

If you have an 18-19 year old "baptist preacher" I can't be more overjoyed to no longer be a part of that cult lol.

Do and believe whatever you want but this comes dangerously close to insulting another member's child.

LOL.

[Rambo84]

I've researched the abortion numbers. There are two reporting entities, the CDC and the Guttmacher institute:

"The CDC compiles figures voluntarily reported by the central health agencies of the vast majority of states (including separate figures for New York City) and the District of Columbia. Its latest totals do not include figures from California, Maryland or New Hampshire, which did not report data to the CDC."

According to the CDC, for the year 2020, the number was 620,327 legally induced abortions/deaths.

"The Guttmacher Institute compiles its figures after contacting every known provider of abortions – clinics, hospitals and physicians’ offices – in the country. It uses questionnaires and health department data, and provides estimates for abortion providers that don’t respond to its inquiries. Guttmacher’s figures are higher than the CDC’s in part because it includes data (and in some instances, estimates) from all 50 states."

Guttmacher’s national total for 2020 was 930,160 legally induced abortions/deaths. 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/01/11/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/

So if you argue that we need stricter gun laws to "protect our children" and you are pro-choice you are, at best, a hypocrite. 

[gregintenn]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

If you have an 18-19 year old "baptist preacher" I can't be more overjoyed to no longer be a part of that cult lol.

Lovely.

Edited April 1, 2023 by gregintenn

[gregintenn]

4 hours ago, GlockSpock said:

Do and believe whatever you want but this comes dangerously close to insulting another member's child.

LOL.

Trolling is his only function here. Nothing new.

[Grayfox54]

23 hours ago, Moped said:

I think it's time we (the Firearms Community) start coming up with our own common sense solutions to these issues,

I'm right there with ya, but I am by no means a mental health expert. I wouldn't even know where to begin. 

And that right there is the gist of the issue. Trying to deal with the current mental illness epidemic would be very complex and expensive. Nobody, especially the politicians, wants to be bothered by it. Then there's that whole woke thing where you might accidentally hurt somebodies feelings. 

Nope, its just so much easier to blame the gun.  That's the easy answer.  That's exactly what the antis have been doing for years and they aren't interested in the truth. 

[Moped]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Trolling is his only function here. Nothing new.

This.

He only shows up when something happens, spouting borderline antigun rhetoric and stirring the pot. Otherwise, I've never see him contributing anything else here. I blocked him. Better for both of us.  

Edited April 1, 2023 by Moped

[gregintenn]

What if we wholesale abandon the in person school model in favor of some form of online curriculum? I know this is an outlandish proposal on its face, but consider it for a moment. We’d no longer need to build or maintain school buildings. No more school buses would dramatically help traffic congestion and pollution, as well as save an untold amount of energy consumption. Parents would have more choices for their children, and he forced to be more active in their children’s’ education. Best of all, there’d be no more school shootings!

Sound crazy? It makes more sense to me than banning firearms.

[Snaveba]

We had to cover the memorial at TCS last night to protect is from the storms. We got it all uncovered this morning.  

[Luckyforward]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

What if we wholesale abandon the in person school model in favor of some form of online curriculum? I know this is an outlandish proposal on its face, but consider it for a moment. We’d no longer need to build or maintain school buildings. No more school buses would dramatically help traffic congestion and pollution, as well as save an untold amount of energy consumption. Parents would have more choices for their children, and he forced to be more active in their children’s’ education. Best of all, there’d be no more school shootings!

Sound crazy? It makes more sense to me than banning firearms.

I think you are on to something here.   More and more families are considering some form of home schooling or online instruction.  The issues that we learned during COVID is the difficulty of getting children (especially littles) to engage/pay attention online and some parents were just not cut out to be "teachers at home."  Still, if we were to have this discussion a year from now, I'll wager that some type of "hybrid" educational models will emerge.

[TGO David]

11 hours ago, Omega said:

With friends like this:

TN: LT. GOV. MCNALLY JOINS DEMOCRATS IN FAVOR OF RED FLAG LAW!

 

McNally is doing anything he can to pander to anyone who will save his job from his own nauseating proclivities.  A sad old man who undoubtedly struggles to get a meager rise in his shorts from staring at scantily clad younger LGBTQ+ men on Instagram.

He's a pitiful old pervert signing on to something that he hopes will keep him employed.

 

5 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Trolling is his only function here. Nothing new.

Sadly, I have begun to agree.

 

[Erik88]

I think we're at the point of needing an SRO at every school. Private schools like this need to pay for their own though. We just have to hope the SRO does a better job than the one at Stoneman Douglas. 

[btq96r]

5 minutes ago, TGO David said:

McNally is doing anything he can to pander to anyone who will save his job from his own nauseating proclivities.  A sad old man who undoubtedly struggles to get a meager rise in his shorts from staring at scantily clad younger LGBTQ+ men on Instagram.

He's a pitiful old pervert signing on to something that he hopes will keep him employed.

That and Bill Lee is open to grant funding for private school security.  I'm all for private schools having guards, but they should fund it like they do all their other operating items.

Coupled with a red flag law that's just meant to turn down the heat and we'll have taken some steps backwards.

[Moped]

3 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I think we're at the point of needing an SRO at every school. Private schools like this need to pay for their own though. We just have to hope the SRO does a better job than the one at Stoneman Douglas. 

I've thought this for years, Should be a requirement for all schools, regardless of public or private.

[TGO David]

6 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I think we're at the point of needing an SRO at every school. Private schools like this need to pay for their own though. We just have to hope the SRO does a better job than the one at Stoneman Douglas. 

It's really up to law enforcement agencies to put good officers in as SROs and stop using school assignments as a cushy place for pansies to coast along, or past their prime thoroughbreds to ride out a few final years before retirement.  Agencies need to treat schools as the gathering place of America's most valuable assets.

If your local agency is putting Barney Fife, Joey Bag o' Donuts, or Buford T Justice in your schools, it's time to demand better.

 

 

[bersaguy]

Back a few years ago I wrote to a few of our elected officials about an idea if  using Veterans as security in schools. It could be a plan that could be easy to do. Most Veterans could use the extra income and Veterans live all over the country so that means most if not all live close to a school. They are all trained with firearms and would not run from an armed intruder but would move toward them and take them down. Just an idea!!!!

[Grayfox54]

SRO ain't as easy as you think. Our schools are full of guns, drugs, rivalries and wanna be gang bangers. The SROs I used to know loved the job, but it kept them busy. 

[Erik88]

12 minutes ago, btq96r said:

That and Bill Lee is open to grant funding for private school security. 

That is ridiculous. We barely fund our public schools. The last thing we need to do is pay for private school security. 

 

[TGO David]

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

If you have an 18-19 year old "baptist preacher" I can't be more overjoyed to no longer be a part of that cult lol.

 

I have no desire for TGO to become an echo chamber and I welcome diverse opinions so long as they constructively add to the overall dialogue, but we've reached the end of this road.

Daniel, you've been a longtime member of TGO and years ago we all had quite a bit in common.  Since then, something changed and I really don't have the mental bandwidth to try and figure out how or why.  I forced myself to do a search on your recent posts and everything for at least the past two years, and probably longer than that, seems to consist of contrarian behavior meant to elicit a negative reaction from everyone else.  I guess for your own amusement.

I am going to trust that God has other people in your life who will continue to point you back toward him.  But, sadly, TGO won't be that group now.

It brings me no pleasure to say it, but your time here is done.

[RED333]

45 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Private schools like this need to pay for their own though.

As soon as school choice is put into effect and parents are giving their tax money back from public school tax. At that point parents can afford a better school to send their kids to.

[bersaguy]

Just so folks know, I did get a reply back to my Veteran idea from two elected officials and they said a similar idea was already being kicked around and being looked at. I have a veteran buddy that I use to go to the range with before I moved out here and he said he would be glad to become a security person at a local school. We spoke on the phone Thursday after he saw all the videos and he said that the cameras showed the shooter shooting out the door glass and that there was two short clips of the shooter outside prior to shooting the glass out. He said that when the shooter stepped through the second door she should have been shot right then. I agreed with him because he said that when she was seen outside in that short film clip with those weapons there was no doubt what her plans were and he would have been ready when she entered the building. 

[Hozzie]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

That is ridiculous. We barely fund our public schools. The last thing we need to do is pay for private school security. 

 

I would argue we need 100% choice of schools through a direct value per student from the government.    You get $x towards school and you decide which one to go to.  Every school can then be required by law to have an SRO.   If you want to send your kid to private school, you pay the difference.  Win/win.  
 

I personally don’t like the idea of online only and would never do it ( although I don’t have kids).   They need socializing and should learn how to deal with other people.   We don’t need one more way to isolate kids from others and let them think that is normal. (Referring to Greg’s idea, not the quote).  At the end of the day, it should be up to the parents of each kid.  
 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Hozzie

[bersaguy]

42 minutes ago, RED333 said:

As soon as school choice is put into effect and parents are giving their tax money back from public school tax. At that point parents can afford a better school to send their kids to.

OK, I can agree with this idea but what are better schools? There have been school shootings in some of the best schools in the country and some of the average schools. How does a parent choose a school that won't have what happened Monday happen there as well. I think the security issue needs to be addressed first....JMHO

[Links2k]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

What if we wholesale abandon the in person school model in favor of some form of online curriculum? I know this is an outlandish proposal on its face, but consider it for a moment. We’d no longer need to build or maintain school buildings. No more school buses would dramatically help traffic congestion and pollution, as well as save an untold amount of energy consumption. Parents would have more choices for their children, and he forced to be more active in their children’s’ education. Best of all, there’d be no more school shootings!

Sound crazy? It makes more sense to me than banning firearms.

I like the idea as long as measures are taken to ensure all students had the basic resources and necessities (internet, tablets & maybe food) required to learn. It will cost, but as you stated, it would be cheaper than maintaining redundant personnel, schools, buses etc.  If I had young kids, I’d be in favor of this idea. 
 

2 hours ago, Erik88 said:

I think we're at the point of needing an SRO at every school. Private schools like this need to pay for their own though. We just have to hope the SRO does a better job than the one at Stoneman Douglas. 

My son’s middle/high school had private security and over time they knew pretty much every student, parent and vehicle. Strangers were immediately and politely confronted. I can’t recall there being any incidents on campus, even at sporting events. 
 

58 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Just so folks know, I did get a reply back to my Veteran idea from two elected officials and they said a similar idea was already being kicked around and being looked at. I have a veteran buddy that I use to go to the range with before I moved out here and he said he would be glad to become a security person at a local school. We spoke on the phone Thursday after he saw all the videos and he said that the cameras showed the shooter shooting out the door glass and that there was two short clips of the shooter outside prior to shooting the glass out. He said that when the shooter stepped through the second door she should have been shot right then. I agreed with him because he said that when she was seen outside in that short film clip with those weapons there was no doubt what her plans were and he would have been ready when she entered the building. 

This sounds good it theory, but we may as well keep SRO’s. You have to consider a training standard as well as liability insurance. 

[Alleycat72]

14 minutes ago, Links2k said:

I like the idea as long as measures are taken to ensure all students had the basic resources and necessities (internet, tablets & maybe food) required to learn. It will cost, but as you stated, it would be cheaper than maintaining redundant personnel, schools, buses etc.  If I had young kids, I’d be in favor of this idea. 
 

My son’s middle/high school had private security and over time they knew pretty much every student, parent and vehicle. Strangers were immediately and politely confronted. I can’t recall there being any incidents on campus, even at sporting events. 
 

This sounds good it theory, but we may as well keep SRO’s. You have to consider a training standard as well as liability insurance. 

Our school has facial recognition technology. Because of our situation, I have to update pictures of individuals regularly. If that person/people show up, the school and police are quietly notified. I have no idea why it couldn't have every student, parent, and staff then if someone shows up it alarms. Of course this is over simplifying it, but you get the point.