school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School

[gregintenn]

23 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

How so? Police actually in control this time? 

Well, no unarmed women were shot to death for one.

[hipower]

4 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

 

So brilliant an analysis. Really. I wish I could have said it this well.

[BigK]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Pretty big difference between that, and January 6th. 

Yeah, no undercover FBI encouraging people to go inside. 

[hipower]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CqbZT9RrgGE/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Well...that certainly was interesting.

[Daniel]

14 hours ago, RED333 said:

So to say this in fewer words, "Evil people doing evil things with tools that are easy to get". More kids are killed with cars than guns, yet we do not talk about cars the way we talk about guns.

This is no longer the case.

[No_0ne]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Apologies. Tried to say I was working off memory. 

I do think it’s relevant, seeing as how red flag laws and mental health issues were mentioned. Not trying by any means to stoke the flames but I do think this set a precedent that results in at least a small portion of the problem of mental health in America. 

I meant my correction was "irrelevant" to the discussion in the topic.  I don't know enough about the history of mental health treatment in California or elsewhere to judge the relevancy of your original point.  Sorry for the confusion ...

[Omega]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

The response was definitely different.

I wonder how many FBI informants were used 

[Worriedman]

 

[Danger Rane]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:04 PM, Daniel said:

It's almost as if we should have some way for people to receive care even if they can't afford it.  Some type of I dont know, government-provided health care.

I can’t speak for every state, but in TN people receive medical and mental care everyday, whether they can afford to pay for it or not. When you say government provided health care it means healthcare that is paid for by all the rest of us. The Hospital systems are all run like for profit businesses regardless of their tax status, and they will gladly care for the poor while simultaneously milking our tax money from the government and from us again through ridiculously high medical costs. As someone who works at the ground floor of the medical system (Fire/EMS) I can tell you that the people most likely to not get the care they really need are those solidly in the middle class. The poor and immigrants abuse the healthcare system more than anyone, so don’t even try that as an argument. 

[NoBanStan]

4 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CqbZT9RrgGE/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I mean honestly, can we blame the kids? They just want to go to school and not worry that some clown is going to come in and start killing them. They are bombarded by gun grabber logic because it's the only real actionable argument being made

Our side says it's mental health. I believe that to be true, but they aren't doing anything meaningful to try and fix it.

 

[BigK]

26 minutes ago, NoBanStan said:

I mean honestly, can we blame the kids? They just want to go to school and not worry that some clown is going to come in and start killing them. They are bombarded by gun grabber logic because it's the only real actionable argument being made

Our side says it's mental health. I believe that to be true, but they aren't doing anything meaningful to try and fix it.

 

I see what you mean. Their side wants to do something (even if we think it's wrong). Our other side only knows banning guns won't work, but we don't have a better answer, so we look like we don't want to do anything.

[Links2k]

25 minutes ago, NoBanStan said:

I mean honestly, can we blame the kids? They just want to go to school and not worry that some clown is going to come in and start killing them. They are bombarded by gun grabber logic because it's the only real actionable argument being made

 

I believe the young people are justified in their rational fear. After all, they are overwhelmingly the people in the classrooms. I’d hate to have school aged kids in this climate. 
 

We must resist the temptation to apply adult logic to youthful fear.  Their concern is extremely valid. They don’t want to live in a world or attend school surrounded by guns. 

[Grayfox54]

I just did my daily check of Imgur. I think we can take a breath and relax a bit. No new gun ban posts. 

All the leftists over there have been distracted. They're too busy having orgasms over Trump being indicted. 

[Links2k]

2 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I just did my daily check of Imgur. I think we can take a breath and relax a bit. No new gun ban posts. 

All the leftists over there have been distracted. They're too busy having orgasms over Trump being indicted. 

I resemble that remark.

[RED333]

8 hours ago, Daniel said:

This is no longer the case.

What is and Your proof?

[MacGyver]

For what it’s worth, I know a bunch of the students who were at the Capitol today - because they’re my kids’ classmates.

A couple of things worth noting as an “insurrection” narrative is crafted:

1. This crowd was almost entirely students 

2. Everyone you see passed through a metal detector and through security

3. They were loud - and it was tense - but it was in no way violent

4. At one point three students blocked a bathroom - and the state troopers got physical as they cleared a path 

5. no students were on the floor at any point

6. At one point a few Democratic freshmen state reps took to the floor with a megaphone.  The Democratic leadership was yelling for them to stop - and they’ll likely get censured.

7. Whether we agree or not with the message - protest is a fundamental right.  It’s rarely a solution by itself - but it often makes room to find a solution.

Do with that as you will. 

[Grayfox54]

From what I saw on the Memphis news, the crowd was pretty big and loud, but mostly behaving themselves. No way you could call that an insurrection.  I think somebody is just wanting to blow this up for their own purposes. 

I got no problem with peaceful protests. That's the American way. 

[pop pop]

I remember when the State closed Central State Mental Facility in Nashville. It took 21 years to settle all the lawsuits connected to so called "Patient Abuse" cases for that facility. The mentally ill are prone to be hard to handle at times. People get hurt. The kinfolks of the mentally Ill could not handle their relatives and sue the state when they go see them and they have injuries because someone tried to control an out-of-control person, and got bruised or injured. Here came the lawsuits. 

I don't think you will ever see State run mental facilities, like Central State, anywhere in the U S any time soon. Most  all of the States mental health system dumped the patients back to their families or out on the streets and closed their facilities back then. Now society must deal with them and not doing a very good job. It's a big problem. 

[Erik88]

8 hours ago, Danger Rane said:

When you say government provided health care it means healthcare that is paid for by all the rest of us.

That is already similar to what is happening. Hospitals have to treat people without insurance. To make up for this, they rape the insurance companies anytime someone with insurance has to be treated. So those of us with insurance are essentially subsidizing those without. Our premiums continue to get higher and higher and that's just to have a policy. If we actually get sick or injured, most of us have to fork out thousands of dollars until we hit our max out of pocket. 

What we're doing today is not working. 

[Moped]

44 minutes ago, pop pop said:

I remember when the State closed Central State Mental Facility in Nashville. It took 21 years to settle all the lawsuits connected to so called "Patient Abuse" cases for that facility. The mentally ill are prone to be hard to handle at times. People get hurt. The kinfolks of the mentally Ill could not handle their relatives and sue the state when they go see them and they have injuries because someone tried to control an out-of-control person, and got bruised or injured. Here came the lawsuits. 

I don't think you will ever see State run mental facilities, like Central State, anywhere in the U S any time soon. Most  all of the States mental health system dumped the patients back to their families or out on the streets and closed their facilities back then. Now society must deal with them and not doing a very good job. It's a big problem. 

I think it's a huge problem. While we might not see state run mental health facilities for a long time to come, if ever, I think there was and still a place for them. I for one would love to see them come back.

However, I don't think for a minute that this would be some panacea for what is happening with most of these mass shootings that are occurring. For the most part, I suspect that these people would be still walking the streets. I can't help but think that somehow we have to come up with a reasonable way to have Doctors place some mental health patients, they deem a danger to themselves and other, on a DO NOT SALE list for firearms. Likely this is not going to make either side happy in the end.  But I think all of us can see the need in this.

At the same time I think that we, as firearms enthusiasts, need to figure out a way we can embrace Red Flag Laws. There has to be some sort of compromise on this issue at some point, or we will end up being on the wrong end of this issue.  I think we can all agree that there are individuals out there that own firearms, that have absolutely no business having them.

Another point to consider, is that mental health issues are just one part of the equation. A lot of mass shootings are innocent people getting caught in the crossfire between criminals or they are between then the criminals themselves. I believe this to be a small, but very dangerous minority of people. And I also believe that LE knows exactly who these characters are, in every city. I would love to see a successful sweep of these individuals hauled off to prisons for life or until they are so damned old they are no longer a danger to society.

I think if we could solve these issues, you'd see a major decrease in mass shootings and violent crime. These things will never completely go away, but we'd all be a lot safer.

[Luckyforward]

Lots of comments about why we have a lack of mental hospitals.  I used to teach a grad school course on the history of mental health, but I won't bore with a lecture .  But here are two websites that give good background:

• https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-mental-hospitals-contribute-to-homelessness-here - a 2016 review from KQED that gives an excellent historical background.  It cites the invention of chlorpromazine (Thorazine) as the first antipsychotic that, at the time, thought medication could eliminate the need for mental hospitals.  Sadly, it was not so.  The corresponding history is a jumble of state/federal money that shifts mental health care to the community.
• AMA Journal of Ethics - really good perspective - https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/deinstitutionalization-people-mental-illness-causes-and-consequences/2013-10#:~:text=Three forces drove the movement,to save money [8].

[Daniel]

9 hours ago, Danger Rane said:

I can’t speak for every state, but in TN people receive medical and mental care everyday, whether they can afford to pay for it or not. When you say government provided health care it means healthcare that is paid for by all the rest of us. The Hospital systems are all run like for profit businesses regardless of their tax status, and they will gladly care for the poor while simultaneously milking our tax money from the government and from us again through ridiculously high medical costs. As someone who works at the ground floor of the medical system (Fire/EMS) I can tell you that the people most likely to not get the care they really need are those solidly in the middle class. The poor and immigrants abuse the healthcare system more than anyone, so don’t even try that as an argument. 

That woman who died in police care sure didnt seem to get any medical care after she was stabilized now did she?

[peejman]

8 hours ago, BigK said:

I see what you mean. Their side wants to do something (even if we think it's wrong). Our other side only knows banning guns won't work, but we don't have a better answer, so we look like we don't want to do anything.

We do have a better answer, but its not quick, easy, or clean. It means dealing with messy, ugly, difficult people, one at a time.  It means compromise. There is no magic pill for this.  It can't be solved behind a keyboard. Society's moral compass has been spinning for decades. There will be no resolution until we find a direction and work toward it together. 

[BigK]

11 minutes ago, peejman said:

We do have a better answer, but its not quick, easy, or clean. It means dealing with messy, ugly, difficult people, one at a time.  It means compromise. There is no magic pill for this.  It can't be solved behind a keyboard. Society's moral compass has been spinning for decades. There will be no resolution until we find a direction and work toward it together. 

As you said, there is no magic pill. We have to keep doing what we have been doing, addressing this mess one case at a time. There were evil people doing evil things long before the shut down the mental hospitals and long before the woke agenda started our moral compass spinning out of control. We just have more evil and more crazy now than before.

So,  it probably looks like we're trying to put out a forest fire with a garden hose to the other side or worse, it looks like we're ignoring the problem and/or pretending there is no problem. In the meantime, a very large segment of our population thinks they have a magic bullet (gun control).

[peejman]

Yesterday I learned one of my aunts used to be neighbors with the shooter's family. Her kids (my cousins) used play with their kids.  They haven't spoken in many years but she thought highly of them.  It's been a tough week.