Was this a "Good Shoot"?

[RED333]

Arizona Family Dollar employee charged with murder after firing 10 shots at shoplifter who punched him

An employee of an Arizona Family Dollar store has been charged with murder after police say he fired ten shots at a shoplifter who punched him.

Kevin Salas Madrid, 24, confronted the serial shoplifter and told him to leave the store at which point the shoplifter punched him in the face which knocked off Madrid's eyeglasses, FOX 10 Phoenix reported.

Madrid then allegedly pulled out a gun and shot the shoplifter at least ten times, including several times when the shoplifter was on the ground.

"Kevin stated he had made the worst decision of his life," police said in his probable cause statement.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/arizona-family-dollar-employee-charged-murder-firing-10-shots-shoplifter-punched

I feel is was good, however he shot when the person was down and told the police he made a mistake.

Edited March 26, 2023 by RED333
Because I can

[Darrell]

He probably should have stopped after one double-tap.

 

[Grayfox54]

On the surface with little information, I'm gonna say no. Shooter admitted he fired in anger and that it was a mistake. I'm also not sure if one punch could be considered a deadly assault. 

We had a case in Memphis a few years back where a man was attacked outside a local mall. Victim pulled his gun and emptied a 16 round mag into the attacker and kept firing even after the attacker fell. But in this case the shooter said he just panicked and kept pulling the trigger. He wasn't charged. So you never know. 

[DHF]

I'd need to see the video before throwing in my two cents.

Was it a good shoot and will someone be charged and then convicted are different questions.  Yours is the harder one to answer.

[monkeylizard]

Assuming AZ has similar statutes to TN and based on what was presented in the article, no. An adult (especially a presumably healthy young adult) getting punched does not rise to the level of being in fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury. If there were other things at play like if the shooter had some rare brittle-bone disease, or the shoplifter jumped on top of him and was pummeling his head or bashing it into the floor, or the shoplifter presented a weapon, sure. But that's not what the article says and based on the arrest and charges, probably not what the store security video shows.

Edited March 26, 2023 by monkeylizard

[Light_F_T]

Doesn't sound like a good shoot.  But I highly doubt that limited information covers all the factors in the shooting.  

[Erik88]

It saddens me that people still haven't learned to keep their mouth shut. The police are not your friends. Ask for a lawyer! He pretty much sealed his fate. 

[Alleycat72]

Devils advocate. 

I have a gun on me and there's a robbery. If the guy knocks me out and can get my gun, he could use it to kill people. That's a deadly threat. 

Cops shoot people 37 times on video without any repercussions. I should be treated the same as they are. 

Sometimes people need to be shot 37 times.

There is nothing that says you can't be angry at someone when you shoot them in self defense. I'm not afraid of dying so does that mean I can't use lethal force to defend myself if someone is trying to kill me. You are required to fear for your life  

If you shoot someone that was trying to kill 37 nuns, 16 lady's, and 27 babies....50 people took video....DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE.  Don't be an ass about it. The police will be okay. It'll get figured out. If you talk, you'll say something stupid. 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Alleycat72

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

It saddens me that people still haven't learned to keep their mouth shut. The police are not your friends. Ask for a lawyer! He pretty much sealed his fate. 

We are almost ALWAYS our own worst enemy. We simply never could understand the real need to keep our mouths SHUT, sometimes for as little as a few precious minutes, but we can’t. Nope, blah, blah, blah… 

And just like in this scenario, you can’t “un-say” what’s been said…

in the bigger sense, yes, it was a good shoot in that society has made a conscious decision to let crime run completely wild in America today, but the fact that the US criminal justice system turns a blind eye to it doesn’t make it right, and our adorable little “serial shop lifter” has been cured… Forever.

[-boatman-]

Going on what info we have I said no. It may have been justified in the beginning but it looks he went far beyond that. Anger and/or temper took over.

[pms]

Difficult to say at best without the video and getting further context.

However: 1. Shot the shoplifter several times while on the ground

                  2. "Kevin stated he had made the worst decision of his life," police said in his probable cause statement

                  3.  "Kevin explained he was struck and decided to shoot but looking back, he realized it was egregious."

                  4.  One employee in the store said that Madrid fired as many as 15 shots and admitted after the shooting that he could not control his anger

 

I would go out on a limb to say that things do NOT look good for our friend Kevin!

Edited March 27, 2023 by pms

[Cruel Hand Luke]

This is why we tell people in class to GIVE A LIMITED STATEMENT establishing that you were the victim of criminal assault , point out the perpetrator ( or perpetrators) point out any witnesses...and then stop talking. No matter how much you might want to talk to the cops to convince them you are a good guy, just STOP. And you can invoke your right to remain silent after that without sounding like a poor impression of a film noir villain. You don't want to say "I ain't sayin' nothin' till my mouth piece gets here...ya see..." Just tell them I want to cooperate but I'm invoking my right to silence .  I guarantee 99.% of people have never practiced talking to the police.... so if you have not practiced it, don't try to be good at it right after the most stressful event you have probably ever been involved in.   

Couple of random thoughts.... You cannot legally shoot people for punching you UNLESS a REASONABLE person would be in fear of grave bodily injury or death. If those factors are absent then it is NOT a good shoot. Now if the guy knocks you to the ground and follows you down to the floor and keeps punching you then YES that is a reasonable fear of grave bodily injury or death. Or if he knocks you down and starts kicking you. Again, grave bodily injury (or death) is a REASONABLE fear there. But no,  you cannot legally shoot someone because they punched you and you "let your anger get the best of you". Ask Michael Drejka ....... 

 

If you say NOTHING AT ALL then your side of the story will not get told until after they decide you are the perpetrator. Saying NOTHING at all is advice attorneys give to guilty people. Mas Ayoob talks about that as being the advice that attorneys who represent guilty clients give to those clients. Having SOMETHING on record (limited statement that you are the victim) is better than just clamming up and having no say in how the evidence is seen (or not) and collected (or not noticed).... ask Larry Hickey....his ordeal would have been far less time consuming (and $$$ consuming) if he had given a limited statement at the scene.

 

If you cannot control your anger you don't need to be carrying a gun...period. That is part of being a functional adult in society. Here is yet another case of someone who apparently has no hand to hand skills going immediately to his gun because he's mad that he just got punched. If the bad guy does not continue the attack and turn it into a potentially lethal situation then ALL you can do is respond with the same level of force...and shooting him is not the same level of force as a punch. Someone probably should have taught him that in a class somewhere along the line....

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Cruel Hand Luke

[m16ty]

It my personal opinion, it was a good shoot. Sadly I'm not authority on this though. 

Legally speaking, I'd say it would be hard to justify deadly force over just a punch, but there could be factors we don't know. At the end of the day, a lot of these cases boil down to how well of a defense you can afford. 

Never tell the police "I made a mistake". 

[JayC]

No video, so it's impossible to tell with this limited information. 

But, without glasses I'm as blind as a bat.  If I was attacked, and they disabled my ability to see/defend myself, and knocked to the ground I'd probably be in reasonable fear of my life.

As others have said, point out witnesses, and evidence, then tell the police you'd like your attorney present before you make a statement.

[45guy]

I thought he was going to kill me.  I need a doctor. That's it for me. 

[BigK]

Lacking enough information to assume there was a disparity of force between the shoplifter and the employee, I'd assume the punch doesn't warrant the use of deadly force. 

[docachna]

"I feared for my life, and shot to protect myself. I intend to cooperate fully once I have spoken to my lawyer."

 

Then STFU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eddie Southgate]

My personal opinion is that you should be able to use a gun to protect yourself from any physical assault. The law however does not agree with me and just from the little there was to read , legally it would not be a good shoot, not even close. Even if he does somehow manage to avoid being criminally charged , his Biggest Mistake of My Life comment will ruin him in a civil case.  I would guess he'll be charged with murder , if for no other reason than firing ten times and shooting him after he was helpless on the ground.

[chances R]

not my circus, not my monkey.  Thanks for shopping, have a nice day.  Local Tractor Supply employee got shot and died over a box of bullets....