Another mishandled mental health crisis

[Links2k]

https://thehill.com/homenews/3904434-3-hospital-employees-7-deputies-charged-with-murder-in-death-of-black-virginia-man/

The DA said said she won’t be releasing the video.

Crump, Krudys and Otieno’s family were shown the video of Otieno’s treatment both at the local jail in Henrico and later at the hospital. They all said they could see no evidence of Otieno being disruptive or violent as the deputies had claimed.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Links2k

[Grayfox54]

Mental illness is reaching epidemic levels in this country. Yet nobody wants to admit it exists or try to deal with it. Our society is circling the drain and nobody cares. 

[Luckyforward]

As a licensed mental health therapist the severity of what my clients bring in as issues now compared to 10 years ago is startling.  As a culture we tend to have this "just get over it" attitude that does not always understand and appreciate the experiences of others.

[Chucktshoes]

5 minutes ago, Luckyforward said:

As a licensed mental health therapist the severity of what my clients bring in as issues now compared to 10 years ago is startling.  As a culture we tend to have this "just get over it" attitude that does not always understand and appreciate the experiences of others.

I am not a mental health professional, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night. What I do have are some doubts about this statement.
 

Over the last 30 years or so we have dramatically destigmatized mental health problems, and as a society are far more accommodating of them than we ever have been in the past. During that time, it seems as if the general mental health of folks has only declined. We’re not getting any better the more options and availability of treatment that there is. We’re only getting worse, much worse. On some level, I wonder if we’re simply getting more of what we accommodate and accept? 
 

i’m not calling in to question your expertise or credentials, simply making statements of generalities based upon my observations. What I don’t think is in question at all is that as a society we are obviously doing something very, very wrong.

[Links2k]

10 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

I agree with your last statement, but I’m more in line with @Luckyforwardin my thinking about people seeking help, even though there are more mental health resources available than ever before. 
 

We are definitely a “suck it up” culture. By the time people seek help for their mental health ailments, they’ve probably gone without treatment for years trying to avoid the stigma of being labeled crazy. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Links2k

[gregintenn]

51 minutes ago, Links2k said:

I agree with your last statement, but I’m more in line with @Luckyforwardin my thinking about people seeking help, even though there are more mental health resources available than ever before. 
 

We are definitely a “suck it up” culture. By the time people seek help for their mental health ailments, they’ve probably gone without treatment for years trying to avoid the stigma of being labeled crazy. 

How would you propose we solve this problem? Serious question. I don’t have a clue myself, but it doesn’t appear to me that normalizing it is working. Ignoring it isn’t showing much promise either.

Edited March 20, 2023 by gregintenn

[Luckyforward]

I've been doing this work for 40 years; the longer I do it the less it seems I know.  Here is a fair "10,000 foot overview": https://www.health.com/condition/depression/8-million-americans-psychological-distress

I have never seen anything affect our collective mental health like COVID.  People who were minimally functioning and got through the day by going to work, coming home, and going out in public went into two years of isolation.  The levels of anxiety and depression skyrocketed. Two years of massive life changes challenged everyone's perception of life, normalcy, and safety.  Add political unrest , family strife, etc.  and we have a greater level of triggering events with fewer and safe places to express oneself  For many people "family" is not safe anymore..  People who were not functioning well got worse, many who thought they were "well" were found to be "unwell."  Substance abuse has also reached new and scary levels during the pandemic. And we are all trying to figure out what "normal" is again.

The one good thing that happened during COVID was that insurance started paying for telehealth which it never did before.  Allowing people to do therapy from home has been a help to all.  At this point I still do more therapy online than FTF.  On the other hand, there is not enough mental health available.  In the Nashville area therapist wait time is 2 - 4 months; 6 - 8 for a psychiatrist for medications.

As a culture we still do not make it easy for others to seek help; many are stigmatized by friends or family to seek help.  While some will take a blood pressure medication when their PCP tells them, if a PCP suggests a medication for depression others will respond by saying "I'm not crazy."  

Please do not misunderstand my thoughts: I am not saying I am "right" or have all the answers.  I'm just trying to do the best I can with every client, and most every client is more challenging now than they were in 2019.

And at the end of the day, it's a matter of personal will.  How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?  Only one, but the light bulb really has to want to change . . . 

 

 

[BigK]

1 hour ago, Links2k said:

We are definitely a “suck it up” culture. By the time people seek help for their mental health ailments, they’ve probably gone without treatment for years trying to avoid the stigma of being labeled crazy. 

I respectfully disagree. Based on my experience, I see more of what @Chucktshoes points out. I feel American society is more accommodating toward mental disorders than ever before. I also see the problem growing as it is becoming more normalized. Maybe "sucking it up" isn't the answer, but whatever is causing it to grow so fast also isn't the answer.

[BigK]

5 minutes ago, Luckyforward said:

Allowing people to do therapy from home has been a help to all.  At this point I still do more therapy online than FTF.  On the other hand, there is not enough mental health available.  In the Nashville area therapist wait time is 2 - 4 months; 6 - 8 for a psychiatrist for medications...

I see that same trend in what my company pays/approves in claims too. Telehealth is a blessing and it helps a LOT, but it cannot possibly grow fast enough to make up for the shortage of therapists, counselors, and psychiatrists that you mentioned. By the time someone decides on their own or is coaxed by someone else to finally seek help, waiting another 3-6 months for a first appointment makes people less likely to get help too.

I'm also seeing alcoholism be easier to hide as vast sections of the workforce are still working from home. Imagine having to be sober enough to make it to/from work and collaborate all day before going home to tie one on. Then suddenly you don't have to be fully sober at all anymore to keep your job.

[Hozzie]

For me it all started with the coddling of kids and everyone wins a prize mentality.  We created this mess by our own doing as far as I am concerned.  It’s now coming home to roost.  
 

 

[Alleycat72]

But what about all the happy pills everyone I work with are on?

[Smith]

1 hour ago, Alleycat72 said:

But what about all the happy pills everyone I work with are on?

Treats symptoms and have negative mental side effects that are more often than not worse than the symptom. In no way do they treat casualty or give usable coping skills. Our society has absolutely lost all ability to cope with difficulty/conflict (normal life) and it often festers into what we are seeing. Everyone wants a pill fix and not a work/effort/overcome solution. While "get over it" is extreme, it is far closer to a solution than medication. 

Pills only help natural chemical imbalances. Very few cases are natural chemical imbalance. Most are cognitive behavioral imbalances. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Smith

[Links2k]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

How would you propose we solve this problem? Serious question. I don’t have a clue myself, but it doesn’t appear to me that normalizing it is working. Ignoring it isn’t showing much promise either.

Sorrow, but the answers are above my pay grade. Seriously though, I’d rather see more people seeking treatment than avoiding treatment to avoid ridicule. There are some f’d up people running around who need treatment, but aren’t seeking treatment. 

 

1 hour ago, BigK said:

I also see the problem growing as it is becoming more normalized

Healthy mental health should be normalized.  Here’s an example. I watched a video earlier today of some young Memphis terrorist (car thieves & burglars) and it reminded me of a conversation I had a decade ago with a friend about young people from bad neighborhoods having ptsd. Their behavior is not justified , but growing up around gunfire, beatings, robberies, avoidance of authorities and rape can definitely have an effect on the psyche. In some cases it becomes ingrained as normalcy. 
 

When you couple those issues with being labeled weak or crazy, a person’s mental well being can definitely suffer. 
 

In essence, I get what some may see it as coddling or paying too much attention to the mental well being of others. That being said, I believe we are a society playing catch up on the concerns of the psychological health of the public.
 

Many of us on TGO are hard men and women because of our upbringing. It’s a badge of honor for most.   We are a product of our times. Some things couldn’t get done without hard men and women. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t some scars on the brain. 
 

 

[Luckyforward]

1 hour ago, Smith said:

Treats symptoms and have negative mental side effects that are more often than not worse than the symptom. In no way do they treat casualty or give usable coping skills. Our society has absolutely lost all ability to cope with difficulty/conflict (normal life) and it often festers into what we are seeing. Everyone wants a pill fix and not a work/effort/overcome solution. While "get over it" is extreme, it is far closer to a solution than medication. 

Pills only help natural chemical imbalances. Very few cases are natural chemical imbalance. Most are cognitive behavioral imbalances. 

Good research out there that shows people who receive therapy and go on meds get better 50% faster.

[gregintenn]

2 hours ago, Hozzie said:

For me it all started with the coddling of kids and everyone wins a prize mentality.  We created this mess by our own doing as far as I am concerned.  It’s now coming home to roost.  
 

 

I guess I lean more toward this line of thinking. We as a country have had it too easy for too long. I don’t believe many folks in Namibia or The Congo worry much about which bathroom to use or micro aggressions. Cold hearted, yes, but logically, a good old fashioned famine would go a long way into curing problems many Americans feel they have today.

Edited March 20, 2023 by gregintenn

[Links2k]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

 I don’t believe many folks in Namibia or The Congo worry much about which bathroom to use. 

I believe we’re envisioning two different things when speaking of mental wellness.  Gender identity is not a concern of mine. Live and let live as far as I’m concerned. I’m speaking about issues that actually prevent an individual from being a stable, functioning member of society. 

[Hozzie]

1 minute ago, Links2k said:

I believe we’re envisioning two different things when speaking of mental wellness.  Gender identity is not a concern of mine. Live and let live as far as I’m concerned. I’m speaking about issues that actually prevent an individual from being a stable, functioning member of society. 

I won't speak for Greg, but I don't think he was talking about "gender identity" specifically as a topic, but rather the types of things that trigger people into completely absurd emotional responses.  

[Smith]

1 minute ago, Luckyforward said:

Good research out there that shows people who receive therapy and go on meds get better 50% faster.

Research done by the same people who did the jab research.  All in good fun. Medication should be a necessary second only option. IMO.

Stats show clearly Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is the only solution to the positive across the board by a wide margin.  Not discounting medications, but psychological and behavioral are different applications. One is medicinally approached and the other is cognitively approached. There is a direct correlation between moving our culture from a behavioral approach to medicinal approach over the last 30-40 years. It has not been good. The medicinal approach failed miserably and is usually viable only because CBT is added in. It's not all one or the other, but it is definitely one way before the other. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/

[Links2k]

I appreciate you all engaging this topic. 

[Luckyforward]

1 hour ago, Smith said:

Research done by the same people who did the jab research.  All in good fun. Medication should be a necessary second only option. IMO.

Stats show clearly Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is the only solution to the positive across the board by a wide margin.  Not discounting medications, but psychological and behavioral are different applications. One is medicinally approached and the other is cognitively approached. There is a direct correlation between moving our culture from a behavioral approach to medicinal approach over the last 30-40 years. It has not been good. The medicinal approach failed miserably and is usually viable only because CBT is added in. It's not all one or the other, but it is definitely one way before the other. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/

I totally agree.  In our practice you only make it to the med provider only after it becomes clear that CBT is not able to address the condition.  Folks that come to us wanting meds only are disappointed.

[Smith]

4 minutes ago, Luckyforward said:

I totally agree.  In our practice you only make it to the med provider only after it becomes clear that CBT is not able to address the condition.  Folks that come to us wanting meds only are disappointed.

This is good therapy. 

[Luckyforward]

I humbly thank you.

[Erik88]

@Luckyforward, do you have any opinions on drugs like psilocybin(magic mushrooms) treating depression? I've been impressed by the limited reading I've done. 

[Luckyforward]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

@Luckyforward, do you have any opinions on drugs like psilocybin(magic mushrooms) treating depression? I've been impressed by the limited reading I've done. 

It is showing great promise in terms of research.  https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/psilocybin-treatment-for-major-depression-effective-for-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows

[Links2k]

53 minutes ago, Luckyforward said:

It is showing great promise in terms of research.  https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/psilocybin-treatment-for-major-depression-effective-for-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows

The few stories I’ve heard about psilocybin have been very favorable. Like marijuana, big pharma will bribe our politicians to keep this substance from reaching its full potential.