Chrysler/Fiat

[Smith]

The industry woes aren't as cut and dry as all the armchair quarterbacks think.

Oh it's pretty cut and dried...... the government needs to leave them alone and let them run their business according to market demands. That includes the unions, cafe standards, etc.

[Guest SUNTZU]

But will the industry woes be fixed by billions in taxpayer money? Whose gonna buy those new cars when everyone's broke as hell? Inquiring minds want to know...

What part of the auto industry do you work in, S&WForty? I didn't know if you were in parts, repair, or sales. Will existing parts and assembly lines to make parts fit the new eco-cars?

[greenego]

Sorry about that. I work in the auto industry. Anything that delays Chrysler restarting production is seen as detrimental. We're sitting on months of inventory.

I can understand where you are coming from. I was looking at this from the point of view that if the government can go around the law and dictate who gets paid and who doesn't in these bankruptcies investors will stop investing where there may be problems. I am sure the folks in these retirement account believe their money was reasonably safe.

[S&WForty]

Oh it's pretty cut and dried...... the government needs to leave them alone and let them run their business according to market demands. That includes the unions, cafe standards, etc.

I totally agree with that.

But will the industry woes be fixed by billions in taxpayer money? Whose gonna buy those new cars when everyone's broke as hell? Inquiring minds want to know...

What part of the auto industry do you work in, S&WForty? I didn't know if

you were in parts, repair, or sales. Will existing parts and assembly lines

to make parts fit the new eco-cars?

I typed up something as soon as I got to work this morning, and when I hit send, it said I wasn't logged in. But I had logged in! Oh well. I'll try to retype it...

I work for a Tier 2 supplier. Sometimes (rarely) we're a Tier 1 supplying

directly to the OEM, and sometimes we are a Tier 3. Regarding your last

question, most things aside from the powertrain should carry over with few

problems. I work with interior switching control interfaces. Changes in

those components will be technology or styling-driven rather than

Eco-GreenieWeenie driven.

I pecked my reply in a hurry on an iPod Touch last night. To explain my

cut and dry comment, I have never seen such a convoluted mess. First, my

disclaimer. I am the typical gun-loving Republican, and I fit most of the

stereotypes for such fine people. (LOL) I am usually anti-union (I come

from the school of thought that unions were a must have in the 20s/30s when

laborers were being worked to death, but like many good things, they've

become twisted, and they have created more entitlement-minded people). I

have worked with the white collar Motown design engineers for the last 13

years, and I know how they have had little job security while their

assembly-line counterparts have not made much less in wages while being

protected by the UAW. But, I am not wanting to slam unions. Ironically, I

am defending them to make a brief point. The UAW gave "historic"

concessions in 2007(?) that were still being phased in when the credit

market froze. Had we not entered into this economic storm, we would be

watching GM turn around. Something critics said would never happen. There

are experts out there that will debate that, but I try to be an optimist,

and the daily reports I read back during that time were very promising.

Look at Ford. Ford managed to eek by without a bailout. They also

received those concessions. I doubt they would be squeaking by bailout free had the UAW not come around. But...

So many "experts" in the media cite the Big Three's past as blame for where

they are now. Is it true? Yes, to a point. Clearly, their past put them in a worse position to weather this storm compared to their competition, but so many of the critics and politicians are slamming them with old facts as if they are current. When I hear people slam the UAW as if we're still in the '80s or even '90s where they wouldn't cooperate, it just makes me roll my eyes. I say give credit where credit is due. Were their concessions two years ago too little too late? With the current economic sitatuon, the clear answer is yes. Had the markets not frozen, I'd have to say "No, better late than never." Also, I don't know how many times I have seen Big Three union wages compared to the "transplants" wages (transplants are those imports with assembly plants in the U.S.) and they were not apples to apples. When people base their arguments over out-dated or distorted "talking points," it gets old.

As the bailout talks approached, I was torn over them. I was John Kerry.

I FLIP-FLOPPED. I didn't like the fact LOANS were being called BAILOUTS and

FREE MONEY. Look at what Chrysler did in the late 70s. That was a loan

and the government was paid back. And the Big Three were asking for drops in a bucket compared to what AIG/etc were asking for and receiving. BUT -

hindsight is 20/20. This Republican wishes he'd been full-force anti-bailout the entire time. Let Ch. 11 sort it all out as quickly as possible. But in my flip-flop defense, it was not clear how going straight to bankruptcy would work for the short or long-term. Protecting our manufacturing base is critical. (Politicians that have enabled out-sourcing just don't get it. We simply cannot remain prosperous as a nation if our ecomony only has service industries...)

Though the bailouts just delayed the inevitable (Ch. 11), maybe they have allowed a softer landing, but who knows. What is appalling is how the

government and unions will come out of all this smelling like a rose. Just

one more march towards Socialism.

I've been very politically-minded since '92 (thank you Mrs. and Mr.

Clinton). I've always found everything to be "black or white, no gray area

in the middle." Seeing this mess from the inside out, I for once have seen

a gray area in what quickly became a political issue. Deep down what makes me the maddest is how the Big Three were righting the ships when out of nowhere the credit issue appeared and hit them in the face with 2x4s. Then along came all the critics slamming them with zero facts about their turnaround efforts that were working.

I can understand where you are coming from. I was looking at this from the point of view that if the government can go around the law and dictate who gets paid and who doesn't in these bankruptcies investors will stop investing where there may be problems. I am sure the folks in these retirement account believe their money was reasonably safe.

You're totally right. My boss recently was explaining how with Chrysler's

Ch. 11, the priorities to debtors are being rearranged on a whim. I think

it's the bondholders getting 20-30 something cents on the dollar when they

are supposed to get 100% or close to it.

Of course, Suppliers are last in line. Visteon just filed Ch. 11 on 5/28. We'd deposited a check on 5/27. We got the "Bounced" notification from the bank today. Just more money that went into the Ch. 11 black hole. The 'ruptcy laws are a joke when Suppliers are the last to get a settlement. It took over two years to get the settlement money when Delphi went bankrupt a few years ago. I think we received about 60% of what they had in payables the moment they filed Ch. 11.

Anyway, while those in higher pecking order argue about the sale of Chrysler and how it affects their investments, companys that supply Chrysler with parts they have to have in order to operate teeter in the verge of bankruptcy, too. Thankfully we're Tier 2 to Chrysler, but in the old days our ship-to location was a Chrysler-owned plant.

Best of all, try not shipping to your bankrupt customer. All Purchase Orders are frozen. No renegotiating until the customer/court says so. You keep shipping like nothing happened while losing the last 60-90 days worth of payables. Quit shipping, and you're in contempt of court.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Thanks for the in depth reply!

Do I owe you anything for that autobiography?

[NuTcAsE]

A fiat car bought with fiat money.

That's a good one!!!!

[Guest SUNTZU]

[S&WForty]

Thanks for the in depth reply!

Do I owe you anything for that autobiography?

Thanks. I'm just presenting one perspective I guess. I can't say how "right" I am.

I'm also a Pontiac nut. I'm gonna miss my brand! But, it's one more thing this Right-Wing Extremist can blame on Obama. Brother Barack, you may have taken my Pontiac Motor Division away, but you ain't takin' my guns!