WCF 25-20 puzzle

[Richard A Butler]

I am hoping to find information from an experienced reloader.

It seems that Win 25-20 ammo is unobtainable now. So which is the best way to go, necking up a 218 Bee or reducing a 32-20? I understand I will have to purchase dies and maybe even modify 2 or more sets of dies. I had hoped to find a .38spl barrel to work on the old Winchester Model 1892 (1915) receiver but no luck there.

Any suggestions or information would be helpful.

RB

Knoxville TN Where we never have problems...(at least very few)

[toby1304]

Interested in this.

Richard, I have an 1892 (1905) 25-20. One of the nicest shooting guns I have. When you can find some ammo you’re looking at around $85 a box.

[icruz]

Amazing how people built and engineered stuff back then.  No computers or electricity to help and much of it is better made than stuff today!

[Richard A Butler]

12 hours ago, toby1304 said:

Interested in this.

Richard, I have an 1892 (1905) 25-20. One of the nicest shooting guns I have. When you can find some ammo you’re looking at around $85 a box.

$85 a box is about par from what I found during my search. Everyone is sold out. I have already spent a lot on small parts. I traded for this as a parts lot in a box. Do you know of a source for 25-20 cartridges?

Thanks for your reply. This helps me meet the required ten days of posts to become an active forum member.

 

4 hours ago, icruz said:

Amazing how people built and engineered stuff back then.  No computers or electricity to help and much of it is better made than stuff today!

 

12 hours ago, toby1304 said:

Interested in this.

Richard, I have an 1892 (1905) 25-20. One of the nicest shooting guns I have. When you can find some ammo you’re looking at around $85 a box.

 

[Richard A Butler]

4 hours ago, icruz said:

Amazing how people built and engineered stuff back then.  No computers or electricity to help and much of it is better made than stuff today!

Hi there icruz,

Amazing indeed! If it weren't for the internet. I would be stuck for sure. I started with basically a box of 25-20 parts. Im a former civil war reenactor and once did some blacksmithing too. I can hardly imagine trying to create a gun barrel over a hundred years ago. Thank you very much for responding to my post. This assist me in reaching the 10 post required to becoming an active member

[Snaveba]

almost 300 rounds of 25/20 at auction on March 28th. 
 

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/289-rds-6-boxes-of-25-20-win-ammo-1649-c-c504f868d8?objectID=178201973&algIndex=upcoming_lots_prod&queryID=ff5de8df1e0d0f844984f8840b6dd691

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Snaveba

[gregintenn]

I’m curious where you are finding 218 Bee brass. I have some and I guard it with my life.

I’d keep an eye out for 25-20 brass as I like the head stamp to match the ammo.

[Richard A Butler]

Snaveba,

Wow! Thanks for that link. I will likely be bidding on that lot. I plan to call McGowan Barrel later today to explore getting a .357 barrel made. I will have to decide where and how to spend. If I were to win that lot, I would also need to purchase reloading dies and source bullets or a mold. Have you bid and purchased on that auction site before?

[Richard A Butler]

Gregintenn,

I have not found 218 Bee brass. I understand some folks have resized up to work in the 25-20 chamber. Just trying to e3xplore my options. I am still early on my lever action journey.

Thanks for your reply. I am now closer to the 10 post requirement to be an active forum member.

[Snaveba]

I have bid through that sight.  I have won one auction and been out bid on a bunch of lever guns. I am still following a few gun in upcoming auctions. When you place a bid it will tell you what the final price with the dealers premium. Just remember it will be an additional 15-20% on top of what you bid. Plus shipping.  

[gregintenn]

I’d suggest joining a large forum such as castboolits, 24hourcampfire, arf, etc. and posting a want to buy ad in their classifieds. There are many guys with that stuff collecting dust in their shops that would be willing to help you out. I wish I could help, but I only have enough 218 and 33-20 for me. I think I have a single 25-20 case. No idea where it came from.

 

It couldn’t hurt to post a want to buy as in the classifieds here too!

Edited March 15, 2023 by gregintenn

[Eddie Southgate]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:13 AM, Richard A Butler said:

Snaveba,

Wow! Thanks for that link. I will likely be bidding on that lot. I plan to call McGowan Barrel later today to explore getting a .357 barrel made. I will have to decide where and how to spend. If I were to win that lot, I would also need to purchase reloading dies and source bullets or a mold. Have you bid and purchased on that auction site before?

Too valuable as a collectors item to shoot up for brass not to mention most of it is probably corrosive primed and might be a bit brittle due to mercury leeching. I'd buy it to display with the rifle in my loading room. Just buy factory loads until somebody makes a run of new brass. Larry's in Huntsville and Madison Alabama usually have a few boxes , not cheap but available. I buy two from the Huntsville store and two from the Madison store every so often and have accumulated a reasonable supply of brass that way.

Converting the '92 to .357 will lower the value and may require more work than just a barrel swap. I'd stick with the 25-20 and keep the gun original and buy a new Taurus/ Rossi '92 in .357 for less than the cost to ruin the value of the Winchester.

[Snaveba]

Please expound on the corrosive primers and mercury leaching. How old does ammo need to be for this to be a concern?

[seez52]

I've got a 1892 carbine in 25-20 that was my uncles from way back. He bought it new around 1913. It's a great shooter but I don't shoot it much. I have some ammo about the same vintage as those on the auction site and it seems like the brass has gotten hard over time and many of the necks split when shot so they are no good for reloading.

There was a box of new ammo on the shelf at the lgs a while back. Marked at $65. This was way before the ammo pandemic. I looked at it several times but could never make myself buy it. I later decided that I should, and when back to find someone else had snapped it up.

[Eddie Southgate]

Not too much of an expounder but you can find any amount of info on mercuric priming and the reasons to avoid it on the net. Corrosive is easy enough to clean in the gun barrel and can be done with anything with a bit of ammonia in it but you also need to take the action apart to clean as residue gets in there also . Truth is , the cases may already be too brittle . Age , priming and the powder can all damage brass . If you bought that lot of cartridges  for the cost of brand new production 25-20  you could sell them to collectors for enough to buy at least two boxes of new for each one of the old even at todays inflated prices for the new. Those will not likely go cheap if they are well advertised. Good luck either way.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Eddie Southgate

[gregintenn]

28 minutes ago, Eddie Southgate said:

Not too much of an expounder but you can find any amount of info on mercuric priming and the reasons to avoid it on the net. Corrosive is easy enough to clean in the gun barrel and can be done with anything with a bit of ammonia in it but you also need to take the action apart to clean as residue gets in there also . Truth is , the cases may already be too brittle . Age , priming and the powder can all damage brass . If you bought that lot of cartridges  for the cost of brand new production 25-20  you could sell them to collectors for enough to buy at least two boxes of new for each one of the old even at todays inflated prices for the new. Those will not likely go cheap if they are well advertised. Good luck either way.

I once bought a bunch of ancient 303 Savage brass. Some of the necks split during reloading, and after firing, many of the rest split. I annealed the remaining brass, but it didn’t seem to help either. That I ld brass was just shot for whatever reason. 
 

I have some sure enough antique 38 Special brass that just keeps going and going. I think the straightwalled brass just lasts better than bottleneck cases.

[Alleycat72]

How much do you need?

 

[Snaveba]

I was asking because I have some older 32WS and older 35 Rem. I just was wondering how old it had to be to be concerned about corrosive primers, etc. 

[Eddie Southgate]

As

7 hours ago, Snaveba said:

I was asking because I have some older 32WS and older 35 Rem. I just was wondering how old it had to be to be concerned about corrosive primers, etc. 

As far as commercial ammo goes by the mid '30's probably 90% was non corrosive . Some Match ammo was still using corrosive for some reason , can't remember right off who made it but it was a long time in changing. Some of the boxes in that auction are from the 1920's and earlier. The first two boxes of Winchester in that auction  would be safe , the rest would absolutely be corrosive and the brass brittle. Look up Ray Giles collectable ammo dealer for an idea how old the older boxes are and how much they are worth.

Post pictures of the .32WS and .35 Remington ammo in question.

[Snaveba]

Here is the older ammo. I think it is 50s-60s. 

[Eddie Southgate]

Good to go on all of that. The Remington is the oldest and it's way past the corrosive era.

[Snaveba]

Thanks 

[gregintenn]

Kleanbore was Remington touting its then new non corrosive ammo.

[Snaveba]

43 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Kleanbore was Remington touting its then new non corrosive ammo.

Good to know 

[myg30]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:00 AM, Richard A Butler said:

I am hoping to find information from an experienced reloader.

It seems that Win 25-20 ammo is unobtainable now. So which is the best way to go, necking up a 218 Bee or reducing a 32-20? I understand I will have to purchase dies and maybe even modify 2 or more sets of dies. I had hoped to find a .38spl barrel to work on the old Winchester Model 1892 (1915) receiver but no luck there.

Any suggestions or information would be helpful.

RB

Knoxville TN Where we never have problems...(at least very few)

Good morning Richard. I’m sorry I’m so late to see this post about the 25-20. 
I believe I can help you out.  I’m retired and probably easiest to talk to ya if that’s ok. I’m better explaining by talking  than txting. At your convience you can call me on my cell any time 615-415-6736. I’m located in Winchester, shame we not closer we could go shoot our 25-20’s.

 

   Mike