Why Carry....

[Mike.357]

We know how it will work don’t we?

ain't that the truth

[timcalhoun]

And my point is that you can give all the reasons as to why you think you have this right; but that does not make it so. You do not have any “Right” recognized by the Federal government or the state of Tennessee to bear arms.

97% of the people of the state of Tennessee would be subject to arrest if they carried a loaded handgun off their property. That is not a right.

I believe that it should be a right. But as expected the SCOTUS (in Heller) stopped short of acknowledging our right to bear arms because of states’ rights. Gun owners running around acting like we made some kind of big win with Heller and we will be another 100 years getting this back in court.

This is no difference in what I'm talking about and the heller decision you mention. Folks in D.C. rights were infringed upon for decades until it was challenged properly. Then some of their rights were RESTORED. Heck, supreme court justice Scalia carried his rifle on the subway in NY to school when he was a kid and no one thought anything of it. He talked about this very subject at the National Turkey Federation. And agrees with my premise.

No one is saying that if you go around with a loaded gun you and don't have a permit you won't get arrested. You just shouldn't.

Edited April 7, 2009 by timcalhoun

[DaveTN]

This is no difference in what I'm talking about and the heller decision you mention. Folks in D.C. rights were infringed upon for decades until it was challenged properly. Then some of their rights were RESTORED. Heck, supreme court justice Scalia carried his rifle on the subway in NY to school when he was a kid and no one thought anything of it. He talked about this very subject at the National Turkey Federation. And agrees with my premise.

No one is saying that if you go around with a loaded gun you and don't have a permit you won't get arrested. You just shouldn't.

Rights don’t require permits.

Can Scalia carry his loaded rifle on the subway today? Most of us here agree with your idea; we just know that it is not a right. Rights are rights. Pie in the sky or the way things should be mean nothing.

The Chicago handgun ban is still doing well.

[timcalhoun]

Rights don’t require permits.

Can Scalia carry his loaded rifle on the subway today? Most of us here agree with your idea; we just know that it is not a right. Rights are rights. Pie in the sky or the way things should be mean nothing.

The Chicago handgun ban is still doing well.

You see you operate under the premise that a right is whatever the state or government allows you. I reject that and so did the framers of the constitution.

[Punisher84]

You see you operate under the premise that a right is whatever the state or government allows you. I reject that and so did the framers of the constitution.

That being my point exactly. Just because the state says they don't recognize a right our founding father's explicitly gave us doesn't make it less of a right.

However I will follow the law because that is what law abiding gun owners do. Kinda of a fricked up catch 22 I suppose.

[mcurrier]

You see you operate under the premise that a right is whatever the state or government allows you. I reject that and so did the framers of the constitution.

I absolutely agree.

[DaveTN]

You see you operate under the premise that a right is whatever the state or government allows you. I reject that and so did the framers of the constitution.

No …I have been placed in jail for no crime other than carrying a loaded handgun.

When that happens you can’t make an intelligent argument that you have a right to carry.

Our founding fathers never pretended to have great wisdom and that everyone for the rest of time would have to adhere to what they wrote. They put the basics in place and then gave us a system to change or interpret the Constitution. The system that they put in places is still working and it most recently has said that you have a right to keep arms but you do not have a right to bear arms.

Should it be enforced (and it never will) the second amendment has the potential to violate States Rights. And for that reason alone the SCOTUS will never rule that you must be allowed to carry guns.

I am from Illinois. I have lived in Tennessee 11 years and I continually offer thanks to those that allow us the privilege of carrying in Tennessee. It is our legislators, not the 2nd amendment that is the reason we can carry. And if we don’t support them and vote for those that support our cause; it can be gone with the stoke of a pen.

[timcalhoun]

No …I have been placed in jail for no crime other than carrying a loaded handgun.

When that happens you can’t make an intelligent argument that you have a right to carry.

Our founding fathers never pretended to have great wisdom and that everyone for the rest of time would have to adhere to what they wrote. They put the basics in place and then gave us a system to change or interpret the Constitution. The system that they put in places is still working and it most recently has said that you have a right to keep arms but you do not have a right to bear arms.

Should it be enforced (and it never will) the second amendment has the potential to violate States Rights. And for that reason alone the SCOTUS will never rule that you must be allowed to carry guns.

I am from Illinois. I have lived in Tennessee 11 years and I continually offer thanks to those that allow us the privilege of carrying in Tennessee. It is our legislators, not the 2nd amendment that is the reason we can carry. And if we don’t support them and vote for those that support our cause; it can be gone with the stoke of a pen.

Dude,

I know it is not your fault, you probably went through the public school system like I did. They simply do not teach U.S. history worth a darn. And even getting my degree from the Univ. of Miami I can tell you that even the American history classes taught there were less than ideal. But saying our founding fathers never claimed wisdom shows real ignorance on the subject. Did you know that Thomas Jefferson's personal library was donated to start the library of congress? And in the first 56 years of its existence his original donation made up over 50% of the books there. And it is said that Adams' library was even more extensive. Your whole second paragraph does not have a sentence in it that is not flawed. Sorry.

Obviously I cannot (in this forum) share with you all I need to in order for you to see my point.

[DaveTN]

Dude,

I know it is not your fault, you probably went through the public school system like I did. They simply do not teach U.S. history worth a darn. And even getting my degree from the Univ. of Miami I can tell you that even the American history classes taught there were less than ideal. But saying our founding fathers never claimed wisdom shows real ignorance on the subject. Did you know that Thomas Jefferson's personal library was donated to start the library of congress? And in the first 56 years of its existence his original donation made up over 50% of the books there. And it is said that Adams' library was even more extensive. Your whole second paragraph does not have a sentence in it that is not flawed. Sorry.

Obviously I cannot (in this forum) share with you all I need to in order for you to see my point.

RIF… did they teach that the university of Miami?

I didn’t say our founding fathers weren’t educated…..Dude.

[Mike.357]

I agree with Dave here in his second paragraph.

The founders were humble men, they did not think they had all the answers. They bickered over many things, the right to keep arms was one of them. One argument was who should possess or supply guns to the militia. it has been good fortune for us that they settled on individuals supplying and keeping possession of their guns.

States rights were paramount to the cause of liberty. They never envisioned the federal gov't controlling rights. Big arguments ensued over even having a bill of rights.

Jefferson once said something to the effect that the goverment should be redone in twenty years for the purpose of power staying in the hands of the people.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Mike.357

[Guest Whiskers]

The second ammendment comes from THE BILL OF RIGHTS... does it not?

I carry because:

The response time to my house is 25 minutes.

I HAVE been threatened by a hunter trespassing... who seemed as though he would raise his shotgun to intimidate me .... or worse... until I turned to one side showing the .45 I was wearing.

I have been shot at while hiking by a kid who THOUGHT I was on his grandpa's land.

I have been shot at while camping by a redneck shooting at TVA signs on the other side of a small slough. I fired a shot into the air to let the guy know he was endangering people and he started shooting at ME. He was caught because I was able to hit his car with a .45 slug. The cops said it was close to 500 yards away. They retrieved a bullet from the guy's 30-30 in a tree not 3 feet above my tent.

I personally know a woman who was featured on "I Survived" after surviving a home invasion robbery in FL in which she was shot twice and her husband 3 times. She killed one of the robbers, who was armed with a sawed off shotgun, with a Mark II.

My nephew was robbed at gunpoint while fishing on a TVA lake. The robber was later convicted of murder in another case.

In 1970 I was in a restaurant when a drunk decided he would drive his car through the building. Everybody tried to find cover after the building started to collapse. The drunk backed up and rammed the building a second time. I was behind the counter and saw a 38 special on a shelf underneath the cash register. I grabbed the gun and aimed at the drunk's head (the car was inside the building and he was about 15 feet from me) A passenger in the car saw the gun and got his attention. He backed out and sped away. There were about 20 people inside the restaurant at the time. Luckily no one was injured. There was a real danger that the building... which was built on a slope and had a second floor underneath, would have collapsed and injured or killed several people. I'm not sure the guy would have stopped if I had not found the gun and aimed it at him. I was told that all the cops were AFRAID of the scumbag because he was politically connected.... even the owner of the building refused to press charges. The building was condemned and torn down.

There are a lot more reasons I carry, but I'm not interested in being a hero. However, if the situation arose and there was a scumbag shooting away.... I would take the shot.

[timcalhoun]

All right guys, I'll deflate this.

Can we at least agree that the declaration of independence was the catalyst to the writing of the constitution which in turn confirmed the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

[Mike.357]

All right guys, I'll deflate this.

Can we at least agree that the declaration of independence was the catalyst to the writing of the constitution which in turn confirmed the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Nothing to deflate Tim. Were just having a discussion.

I am not so sure the Declaration was the catalyst or not. I am sure that the revolution began because the English were enacting gun and ammunition bans and confiscations. Those confiscations along with what was viewed as illegal taxation was the straw that broke the camels back.

I wonder if another round of gun confiscations on a nation wide scale would begin another revolution.

[Guest canynracer]

Oh dear...

I swear this is his FAVORITE discussion!!!

[timcalhoun]

Nothing to deflate Tim. Were just having a discussion.

I am not so sure the Declaration was the catalyst or not. I am sure that the revolution began because the English were enacting gun and ammunition bans and confiscations. Those confiscations along with what was viewed as illegal taxation was the straw that broke the camels back.

I wonder if another round of gun confiscations on a nation wide scale would begin another revolution.

Well, I guess all we can do right now is to attend a tea party near you. I'll be at the legislative plaza.

[eapking]

Amen!