Discussion of Underappreciated Handguns

[ken_mays]

Some of my personal picks for underappreciated handguns:

 

Beretta PX4 - These are excellent DA/SA platforms and they offer a real reduction in recoil over their tilting block counterparts.   Quite accurate too.

SIG PRO line - Another polymer DA/SA that's a solid platform with some agency issue and track record behind it.  Unfortunately I think it's being jettisoned in preference to the P320.

S&W SD9 / 40 - While this model plays second banana to the M&P line, and is also tainted by lingering negative associations with the Sigma, it still remains a capable and affordable offering. 

Stoeger Cougar - Beretta abandoned this predecessor to the PX4 line, but Stoeger continues to manufacture them.  They are a bit bulky for what they are, however.

Steyr M9A1 - The "other" Austrian striker pistol, the Steyr is a design that gives up nothing to Glock on the engineering front.  However, its adoption rate is microscopic due to Steyr's uniformly horrible US marketing efforts.

[CMDRStormBorn]

I’m with BJB on this one.  I am a 1%er collector and own or have owned… let’s say more than my fair share of handguns. The Tactical version of Arex Rex Zero 1 has ALL the bases covered and in a side by side comparison it makes Sig look like a poorer clone of IT.  At any price point, I couldn’t recommend any other Tactical 9mm higher.

[hipower]

17 hours ago, TGO David said:

I've never owned a PPQ so I really can't say.  From looking at photos, the PDP looks to build off of the PPQ's positive points and adds quite a bit more.

 

The PDP's grip texture is insanely good.  Grippy without being abrasive.  The PDP F-Series addresses the issues that you had with the length of pull.

Your assessment is dead on! I've been a big fan of the PPQ since I traded into one. That was 3 guns ago. Still have them. Only one I didn't keep was the 45 cal model. It seemed too heavy for my taste, and the muzzle flip was pretty serious. I shot a G41 that was softer shooting and less rise.

Got a 4" PDP. and it's awesome. Grip is perfect, though circumfrence is a bit larger than I like. In reading about the F series, I'm really attracted to it. Though first, and still marketed towards women shooters; I'm thinking it would be an obvious choice for me. Smaller grip, and trigger moved back a bit. Should be perfect for us guys with the medium size mitts. Also with the more agressive frame cuts for gripping; it should be easier for those of us with the old man's disease...arthritis, to grip and chamber the first round. 

Kudos and apologies to ken_mayes and TGODavid. I think I basically said the same thing you gus did. But...I'm one of Those guys...I like the finger grooves. lol. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by hipower

[hipower]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:25 AM, gregintenn said:

I guess he just lucked into a good one.

Maybe. But...I got into Taurus in the late 80s and early 90s while I was slinging auto parts. Always found a shop tech with something to sell. Oddly, most often I bought Taurus pistols. Usually they were bought pretty cheap. The best ones that I found, and kept, were the PT 92(Beretta clone in black), The PT100, same but in 40 cal. Also several 1911s. I've kept the SS model, wish I'd kept the black/blue one. They've all been good and dependable for range guns. Would I use for edc? If I had no other choices...yes. But I'm blessed to not need that option.

Also had several of the poly PT111 and PT145. The 111 was a bit off for accuracy. Made a good close range gun though. Mine I thought of as more of a belly gun. The 145, I still have, is awesome. Shoots well and is accurate as far as I can see to shoot. A bit heavy on recoil I admit though.

More to the point, I think Taurus is a viable option for shooters. Not as cheaply made as they once were, but prices have gone up on some models. I hear good things on the G2 and G3 models, and now a G4 iscoming. I know of at least 2 lgs that sell a lot as entry level pistols, and also to a certain street element as well.  

[-boatman-]

7 hours ago, hipower said:

Maybe. But...I got into Taurus in the late 80s and early 90s while I was slinging auto parts. Always found a shop tech with something to sell. Oddly, most often I bought Taurus pistols. Usually they were bought pretty cheap. The best ones that I found, and kept, were the PT 92(Beretta clone in black), The PT100, same but in 40 cal. Also several 1911s. I've kept the SS model, wish I'd kept the black/blue one. They've all been good and dependable for range guns. Would I use for edc? If I had no other choices...yes. But I'm blessed to not need that option.

Also had several of the poly PT111 and PT145. The 111 was a bit off for accuracy. Made a good close range gun though. Mine I thought of as more of a belly gun. The 145, I still have, is awesome. Shoots well and is accurate as far as I can see to shoot. A bit heavy on recoil I admit though.

More to the point, I think Taurus is a viable option for shooters. Not as cheaply made as they once were, but prices have gone up on some models. I hear good things on the G2 and G3 models, and now a G4 iscoming. I know of at least 2 lgs that sell a lot as entry level pistols, and also to a certain street element as well.  

I had a PT145 for a while. It was the only Taurus I ever owned and the only 45acp gun I ever owned. It was a good gun and I can't say anything bad about it but it was heavier than I liked for carry. The gun wasn't heavy. It was the 45 ammo.

[monkeylizard]

I had a Taurus PT-92 Stainless and a Beretta M9. I still have the M9.

The Taurus was OK. I didn't care for the aesthetics of their large roll mark on the slide, but that has nothing to do with the quality of the gun. It worked fine and I actually prefer their safety design over Beretta's (you go from safe to decock on Taurus, but Beretta has to pass through fire while moving from safe to decock) and the lever is easier to reach with the thumb on Taurus.

There is a quality difference. When I field stripped them, the fit and finish inside the Beretta was noticeably better. That's why I kept the Beretta and sold the Taurus. If I was on a budget and wanted an M9 style gun, I'd have no qualms owning the Taurus PT-92 in either color.

 

[Moped]

Got two more. One of the best 1911s I’ve ever owned was an Chicom Norinco 1911a1. Bought that and used to shoot it against a couple of buddies, 1911a one was a Colt 1991 and the other was a Springfield GI. All three of us shot all three pistols and all three of us consistently shot the Norinco better. It shot to point with 230gr ball at 15 and 20 yards. The SA shoot a couple inches low and the Colt’s group were always bigger.

The second was a Ruger P89. Big and kinda a clunky, but ate any 9mm parabellum out there. Used to go in with a friend and buy that cheap Egyptian 9mm machinegun ammo they sold on Shotgun News. They had really hard primers and not all pistols would shoot it. My friend had SIG 226 hated that ammo. The Ruger would sail through mag after mag, with no issue.

The worst pistol I ever is a tie between a F.I. Industries .380 and. Keltec PF-9. The .380 would jam at least once a mag. It looked like a Colt Mustang. The PF-9 would drop the mag about every third shot. Didn’t matter which mag I used. It also was the most painful pistol I’ve ever shot. 

[Jamie Jackson]

I don't recall seeing the Star PD mentioned, I had one of these alloy framed 45 acp pistols around '89 -'90. Despite having to use it proprietary (edited for spelling) 6 round magazine and having to replace it's recoil shock buffer at least every 1000 rounds it was a great and very easy to carry little autoloader.

IIRC it had adjustable sights but shot great with 230 gr "hardball" and 230 gr Hydra-shoks. AND it didn't have a grip safety! I liked that feature as it was a "trend" back in the day to pin the grip safety to ensure reliable function in less than ideal grip situations. Think entangled fighting and/or non-dominate hand use.

It's thumb safety has a decent size and very positive in use.

I believe Star stopped making them around 1990. When I first purchased this little gem I bought around 20 of the plastic buffers. Those buffers sold out (dried up) quickly when Star dropped this PD from it's line up.

I regret selling it from time to time...but I ran several thousand rounds through it without a hitch. It was really a well made alloy frame pistol for the time. But without replacement buffers it's life/use would have been limited...

I'll "defend" it for what it was at the time LOL.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Jamie Jackson
spelling...again...

[Moped]

6 hours ago, Jamie Jackson said:

I don't recall seeing the Star PD mentioned, I had one of these alloy framed 45 acp pistols around '89 -'90. Despite having to use it propitiatory 6 round magazine and having to replace it's recoil shock buffer at least every 1000 rounds it was a great and very easy to carry little autoloader.

IIRC it had adjustable sights but shot great with 230 gr "hardball" and 230 gr Hydra-shoks. AND it didn't have a grip safety! I liked that feature as it was a "trend" back in the day to pin the grip safety to ensure reliable function in less than ideal grip situations. Think entangled fighting and/or non-dominate hand use.

It's thumb safety has a decent size and very positive in use.

I believe Star stopped making them around 1990. When I first purchased this little gem I bought around 20 of the plastic buffers. Those buffers sold out (dried up) quickly when Star dropped this PD from it's line up.

I regret selling it from time to time...but I ran several thousand rounds through it without a hitch. It was really a well made alloy frame pistol for the time. But without replacement buffers it's life/use would have been limited...

I'll "defend" it for what it was at the time LOL.

Always wanted one of these.  Ran across one at a Clinton Pawn Shop, last summer. But felt they wanted too much for it at $600.  It was pretty beat up.  And also I remembered the thing about the shock buffers.  Not sure you can find them anymore at all. Pretty sure they replaced it with the Firestorm, which was a little all steel single action pistol, in 9mm and .45acp.  Those were pretty neat little SA autos too.  Still see them around from time to time. Someone may have already mentioned them on this thread.

[1gewehr]

Savage 1907 in .32 and .380.  "Ten shots quick!" with endorsements from "Wild Bill' Cody and Bat Masterson.  First double-column detachable magazine, and striker fired.  Extremely reliable if you remember that early .32acp, especially European ammo, was hotter than modern SAAMI spec.

Also endorse the original Remington 51 .380.  A favorite of Gen George Patton and others.  Very ergonomic!

Finally, Star PD buffers are still available here:  

10 buffers for $44.95

Made & sold by:

Jim Dawg
5zero3-59one-51five9

E-mail & PayPal address: bigdawgguns (at) comcast (dot) net

[TSG]

I'll argue in defense of the smaller single stack self defense handguns. More rounds is better, but being able to comfortably carry and shoot accurately is more important.

I have a soft spot for pretty much any of the Spanish pistols. I'd love an older Star Model S, or a French contract Spanish Ruby.

[monkeylizard]

7 hours ago, TSG said:

I'll argue in defense of the smaller single stack self defense handguns. More rounds is better, but being able to comfortably carry and shoot accurately is more important.

This. A 6+1 or 7+1with you is better than a 15 or more +1 left at home.

[hipower]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:15 AM, -boatman- said:

I had a PT145 for a while. It was the only Taurus I ever owned and the only 45acp gun I ever owned. It was a good gun and I can't say anything bad about it but it was heavier than I liked for carry. The gun wasn't heavy. It was the 45 ammo.

Never looked at it that way...but that might just be right! LOL

[JHP45]

P220 Carry. It's similar to a commander 1911 size version of the P220. Mine has been super reliable with all types of projectile profiles and types. P229 sized slide with P220 lower. Fits P229 holsters. DA/SA has become far less popular in recent years but I still like them. It's similar to having a stick shift car. If you know how to drive, it's good. I like 45s.

The original Springfield XDS 45 post recall is another I still like. Before the GRIP ZONE.

This is another 45 that's been an absolute omnivore when it comes to ammo. I got it back in the G43 days when the 9mm capacity advantage was only 1 more round and the XDS was similar in size to the G43. XDS came with decent sights stock.

Both of the P220 carry and XDS above run reliably dirty.

45 ACP isn't popular anymore because of projectile tech advancements. The question I always ask everyone who preaches 9mm is: how many cases of premium JHP rounds do you have on hand? If the answer is one 20 round box, I'd take the 45.

FMJ to FMJ the 45 will be the winner for me. For the record, I like all calibers but I feel like this unpopular opinion is often overlooked in the echo chamber.

Also, +1 for the Ruger P series, cool workhorse guns.

[BigK]

25 minutes ago, JHP45 said:

The original Springfield XDS 45 post recall is another I still like. Before the GRIP ZONE.

I'm still quite fond my my XDS 45 too. It's a lot of fun to shoot as well. There's just something very satisfying about this little gun that shoots that big ol .45acp.

[Choatecav]

51 minutes ago, JHP45 said:

 

The original Springfield XDS 45 post recall is another I still like. Before the GRIP ZONE.

 

Hear, hear!!!!  I cannot agree with this post more!!!

The XDs does not get NEARLY the love that it should.  I mean, heck, a .45 that is less than one inch in width!!  Amazing.

[Colt4530]

I'll toss in the Beretta Serie 80 .380s.  I have an 84BB and an 85BB.  The 84 is a double stack and fits my hand so I shoot it better.  BBs have a safety.  Later models have a decocker.  Ala Burger King, have it your way.  Light Al frames make them easy to carry.  Midsize so they conceal well.  Too big for a pocket (XSP for that), though.

[TGO David]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:00 PM, Choatecav said:

Hear, hear!!!!  I cannot agree with this post more!!!

The XDs does not get NEARLY the love that it should.  I mean, heck, a .45 that is less than one inch in width!!  Amazing.

I've owned several XDs over the years.  I jumped on that bandwagon really early when Springfield began bringing the HS2000 into the United States under the XD banner.  So, bear in mind that I really want to be more of a fan of them than I am.

The bad news is that they just do not hold up well under use.  I've had the roll pin work out of the top of the slide on two Tactical models in multi-day hangun classes.  I know that anything can break, but this happened to both guns in settings where we were running a 1,000 round course of training.

When it happened, they both went down for the count and the only "fix" was to send them back to Springfield.  I don't know if Springfield has changed its posture on this or not but they used to refuse to sell/send spare parts to the consumer for self-repair.

My own experiences aside, several very reputable trainers (Aaron Cowan at Sage Dynaics, for example) keep their own log of what makes and models of handguns fail mechanically in their classes.  Aaron has said on several occasions that the Springfield XD has a VERY high rate of failure.  I want to say a higher rate of failure than any other handguns in his classes.

 

I don't consider them to be "duty ready" guns.  They might be fun for the range, but I wouldn't carry one.

[Lroszkow]

I enjoyed reading all of the posts of underappreciated handguns and thought I should post a photo of my own.

Almost 20 years carrying this Mauser HSc .380ACP.  I stopped carrying it when I found out how valuable it now was to the collecting world.

An odd looking tool with old world charm.   It still shoots small groups at combat distances, but I've been keeping it lovingly cared for and locked away.  Newer tech now decorates my waistband holster (Ruger LC9).

[Choatecav]

7 hours ago, TGO David said:

I've owned several XDs over the years.  I jumped on that bandwagon really early when Springfield began bringing the HS2000 into the United States under the XD banner.  So, bear in mind that I really want to be more of a fan of them than I am.

The bad news is that they just do not hold up well under use.  I've had the roll pin work out of the top of the slide on two Tactical models in multi-day hangun classes.  I know that anything can break, but this happened to both guns in settings where we were running a 1,000 round course of training.

When it happened, they both went down for the count and the only "fix" was to send them back to Springfield.  I don't know if Springfield has changed its posture on this or not but they used to refuse to sell/send spare parts to the consumer for self-repair.

My own experiences aside, several very reputable trainers (Aaron Cowan at Sage Dynaics, for example) keep their own log of what makes and models of handguns fail mechanically in their classes.  Aaron has said on several occasions that the Springfield XD has a VERY high rate of failure.  I want to say a higher rate of failure than any other handguns in his classes.

 

I don't consider them to be "duty ready" guns.  They might be fun for the range, but I wouldn't carry one.

Well, David, I gotta say that you bring some "eye-opening" data to the discussion on not one, but two different guns going down.  Can't say that I blame you for being a bit squeamish on them, given what you've experienced.

I can't dispute your findings but I can say that I have had mine for about six years and have over 2,000 rounds through it with nary a problem.  Of course, in fairness, I did not run those rounds through the gun at the pace that you did in the training course.  But I have had a couple of sessions that I ran close to 300 through it at a time.  And it has been beat up some with a fall out of the truck on one occassion. 

With due respect, I still appreciate the weapon and consider it my most often selected EDC.

Thanks for the info.

[gregintenn]

On 2/22/2023 at 9:18 AM, NoBanStan said:

Oddly, any CZ.

I know that's an odd submission because anyone who has used them knows better, but it's surprising to me just how unknown they are with your average joe. I was in the same boat as a young buck. The only CZ I ever knew about was the old vz 61.

Even a fair amount of "gun guys" just talk about their M&P or Glock all day but haven't shot a CZ

I’ve found no fault with my CZ75, except I’d prefer to have an ambi safety lever.

[papa61]

4 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I’ve found no fault with my CZ75, except I’d prefer to have an ambi safety lever.

my very favorite gun person tested and reviewed a CZ75. Col. Cooper declared it the second best handgun in the world and wrote that it would be hard to decide number one if it fired .45 ACP. When EAA came out with the Witness clone in .45 I bought the first one I found. Great pistol but one of those regretted sales discussed in another thread. Now they are ridiculously priced and it's hard to find a base, non-race gun. The only fault I found is the grip is too big for my hand. If I'd known then what I know now it would have thinner grip panels and be my favorite pistol. I never have "gun money" when a CZ97 comes up, so sad.

[FireMedic]

I feel like a lot of people either disregard, discount, or do not adequately appreciate the Sig P938 pistols. I have had mine for..... 6 years? I've never had a single malfunction or other issue. Maybe its a "1911 style" pistol and so I'm being to nit picky since everyone loves a good 1911 but I see people selling P938's all the time and it always seems like they are slow to be picked up. Conversely everyone nowadays seems to be wanting a SigP365 or some such "new gun." No offense to those new polymers but the P938 with extended mags is a great pocket pistol with no printing even in athletic shorts. 

[Eddie Southgate]

Beretta 81 BB in .32 ACP.

Easy to carry, has a decent trigger, light weight,12 in the mag one in the pipe, accurate. Not powerful compared to bigger cartridges but I can hit you in the head with it at any reasonable distance all day long. Love how it feels in your hand, like a full size gun. Mine was surplus from the Italian Forrest Service and was like new for $349.00 and shipping a few years back and can still be found for about $100.00 more as can the .380 version. You can convert the 81BB to .380 with a barrel and magazine swap and shoot both. Not what I carry every day but I have carried it quite a lot, much more than I ever imagined I would.

[TGO David]

Alright here's another submission from me:  The FN 509MRD.

 

I no longer own this particular firearm but I would buy another if the opportunity arose.  These guns have practically everything that you need in a fighting handgun:

• Ready for a variety of optics with a good, strong mounting system.
• Excellent grip texture to maximize control.
• Grip size is customizable with three different size backstraps.
• Forward cocking serrations on the slide.
• Good trigger with good reset.  It gets better with use, too.
• Excellent accuracy thanks to a quality barrel, which is crowned at the muzzle.
• Glock 19 sized.  15-rd mags.

 

For some reason these don't get much love.  FN's marketing isn't the best, but this gun is worth your consideration.