What’s wrong with my grip?

[gregintenn]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:43 AM, TGO David said:

@62caster - This video is worth watching.  It takes some reps to get the procedure down, but once you do it's solid and adapts to practically any semi-auto handgun.

Bear in mind that that there is some off-color language in this video.  If you've got kids around, maybe wait or listen with headphones. 

 

 

 

This guy is the epitome of why I’d never take a firearms class. What an arrogant jerk!

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

This guy is the epitome of why I’d never take a firearms class. What an arrogant jerk!

To each their own I suppose, but you're depriving yourself of good training if that's where your bar for participation is set.

It's not necessarily arrogant if you can back it up, first of all.  And second, you're seeing a small snippet of his class and not seeing the rapport that was already built with his students by the time the video was recorded.

Scott Jedlinksi's classes sell out almost immediately.  This isn't a case of "I'm going to treat you like crap as a sales gimmick" like you see with places like Original SOE where the bro culture feeds off of the idea that if you're tough enough to take the abuse you're tough enough to own the product and be part of the club.  Scott's classes sell out quickly because he's a good teacher and because people come out of them as better shooters.

 

[peejman]

54 minutes ago, TGO David said:

To each their own I suppose, but you're depriving yourself of good training if that's where your bar for participation is set.

It's not necessarily arrogant if you can back it up, first of all.  And second, you're seeing a small snippet of his class and not seeing the rapport that was already built with his students by the time the video was recorded.

Scott Jedlinksi's classes sell out almost immediately.  This isn't a case of "I'm going to treat you like crap as a sales gimmick" like you see with places like Original SOE where the bro culture feeds off of the idea that if you're tough enough to take the abuse you're tough enough to own the product and be part of the club.  Scott's classes sell out quickly because he's a good teacher and because people come out of them as better shooters.

 

To Greg's point.... The technique seems solid but the unnecessary potty mouth is a definite turn-off.  I get the persona thing, but expanding his vocabulary would likely improve his business. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by peejman

[deerslayer]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

This guy is the epitome of why I’d never take a firearms class. What an arrogant jerk!

Sometimes comes with the territory unfortunately.  

[deerslayer]

I disagree with the guy's premise that the weak hand trigger finger indexing on the strong hand middle finger is the way.  This method often sets up my weak hand grip lower than I like on a G17.  Splitting hairs here, but It does illustrate that a one-size-fits-all method sometimes isn't ideal when different size and shape guns and different size and shape hands are involved.  As usual, training/practice overcomes a lot and whatever works is what works.  

Edited February 21, 2023 by deerslayer

[Chucktshoes]

35 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

I disagree with the guy's premise that the weak hand trigger finger indexing on the strong hand middle finger is the way.  This method often sets up my weak hand grip lower than I like on a G17.  Splitting hairs here, but It does illustrate that a one-size-fits-all method sometimes isn't ideal when different size and shape guns and different size and shape hands are involved.  As usual, training/practice overcomes a lot and whatever works is what works.  

I really want to take a class from Scott. But I also think that you make a very important point. There’s a lot of ways to skin this cat. It doesn’t mean that some aren’t objectively wrong, but there are more ways than one that are subbjectively,l right.

[deerslayer]

1 minute ago, Chucktshoes said:

I really want to take a class from Scott. But I also think that you make a very important point. There’s a lot of ways to skin this cat. It doesn’t mean that some aren’t objectively wrong, but there are more ways than one that are subbjectively,l right.

Agreed - the best handgun shooter in the world, Eric Grauffel, puts his finger around the front of the trigger guard fudd style.  What is counterproductive for some may be perfect for others and vice versa.  

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, deerslayer said:

I disagree with the guy's premise that the weak hand trigger finger indexing on the strong hand middle finger is the way.  This method often sets up my weak hand grip lower than I like on a G17.  Splitting hairs here, but It does illustrate that a one-size-fits-all method sometimes isn't ideal when different size and shape guns and different size and shape hands are involved.  As usual, training/practice overcomes a lot and whatever works is what works.  

Meh.  I get it and I am not disagreeing with your sentiment, but let's bear in mind that Modern Samurai Project is teaching their way of doing it.  They aren't teaching the only way.

What I have found interesting and, so far, true about his way of doing it is that it provides a repeatable grip on a myriad of different guns.  He can teach a Glock shooter the same method that he teaches a 1911 shooter.

It did feel a little awkward to me the first few times that I tried it, because I was used to aligning my grip via a different set of mechanics and had done so for years.  But, once I got over my own preferences and gave it a chance, it actually became my new preferred way of doing it.

Really this is like hiring a personal trainer to improve your form when lifting at the gym, or a golf pro to fix your swing.  If you allow them to teach you and allow yourself to give their recommendations a try, you might find that it was worth the money.  If you discard their advice because it doesn't feel the same as what you've always been doing... guess what.  You're not going to get your money's worth and your results will probably be what they've always been. 

 

 

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, peejman said:

To Greg's point.... The technique seems solid but the unnecessary potty mouth is a definite turn-off.  I get the persona thing, but expanding his vocabulary would likely improve his business. 

I don't think he's hurting for business, but I'm not easily offended either.  Just because I hear the words, it doesn't mean that I have to start using them, myself.  

[Chucktshoes]

Just now, TGO David said:

I don't think he's hurting for business, but I'm not easily offended either.  Just because I hear the words, it doesn't mean that I have to start using them, myself.  

I’m already using them. A lot. So it doesn’t faze me.

[deerslayer]

2 minutes ago, TGO David said:

If you discard their advice because it doesn't feel the same as what you've always been doing... guess what.  You're not going to get your money's worth and your results will probably be what they've always been. 

...which may already be superior to what they are selling.  

[gregintenn]

5 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I don't think he's hurting for business, but I'm not easily offended either.  Just because I hear the words, it doesn't mean that I have to start using them, myself.  

I’m not offended belt the language. I worked in construction for 30 years. Plenty long to hear some pretty flavorful language.

I also learned to pick out azzholes pretty quick. I had to deal with them then, and now choose not to pay for the privilege of enduring one.

Anyway, sorry for the thread drift. I do appreciate all the advice in this thread. Shooting a handgun well is something I struggle with if I don’t shoot almost daily.

[TGO David]

34 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

...which may already be superior to what they are selling.  

Indeed a possibility!  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.   

[et45]

In a recent YouTube video by Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn the subject of grip pressure came up.Hackathorn said you want the heels of your hand to feel like they are crushing a nut between them and less tension in the palms,fingers.

[BHunted]

.........................or.............ya can invest in one of these and it pretty much tells ya what is wrong. I bought the Elite one when it was a tad cheaper, but I did get better from using it. I still use it on occasion when I can't explain my fails. 

Dry Fire Training System & Training Aids for Home & Range | Mantis X

 

[BigK]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:24 AM, 62caster said:

I went shooting last night with my Glock 45. I noticed 2 things. First, I was consistently low left. My friend was dead on with it, so I know it’s me, not the gun.

Second, I have a sore and bruise on my first thumb knuckle closest to my palm (pictured below you can see the red dot). 
 

Is something wrong with my grip? Any suggestions?

 

 

Hey, just realized I hadn't seen anyone comment on the sore thumb. When I shoot Glocks I get this too.

I have short fingers and Glocks have thick grips. To get my trigger finger in the right place the beavertail/backstrap isn't in the web of my thumb and palm like it should be. It winds up touching that joint in my thumb. I've had training days and match days where I shot so many rounds that I was bleeding from there.

If I move the Glock to the right spot, I literally cannot reach the front of the trigger. I guess I could've gotten gloves, but chose to switch brands instead. Plenty of other brands have grips that are narrower and shorter to fit my tiny paws.

[JustEd]

Glocks tends toward the  chunky fat sharp edge frame/grip

I have had two of them “rounded” by qualified armorers to lessen the rub points. Cheap to do. 

[maroonandwhite]

I skimmed through the thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned….

If you don’t have a red dot equipped hand gun, I would get one.  Learning to use and training with a red dot ended up unintentionally being one of the best training tools I have purchased.  The dot will give you instant visual feedback of what’s happening during your trigger press.  Even if you mainly shoot or carry irons only, it will 100% improve not only your trigger press, but your presentation if you put the time in.

 

Now regarding grip, I have found success using this technique shown by Bob Vogel. While I don’t do it exactly like he shows with his support hand, the strong hand advice is spot on. 
I basically apply pressure in the opposite direction with my support hand. I can slap the trigger to my hearts content and stay on target.
 

 

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, maroonandwhite said:

I skimmed through the thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned….

If you don’t have a red dot equipped hand gun, I would get one.  Learning to use and training with a red dot ended up unintentionally being one of the best training tools I have purchased.  The dot will give you instant visual feedback of what’s happening during your trigger press.  Even if you mainly shoot or carry irons only, it will 100% improve not only your trigger press, but your presentation if you put the time in.

 

Now regarding grip, I have found success using this technique shown by Bob Vogel. While I don’t do it exactly like he shows with his support hand, the strong hand advice is spot on. 
I basically apply pressure in the opposite direction with my support hand. I can slap the trigger to my hearts content and stay on target.
 

 

Hard to argue with his results!

[deerslayer]

I could watch Vogel videos all day.  Here are a couple more where he discusses grip and grip strength.  One thing I've always believed and Vogel teaches is not to crush the gun with the firing hand.  Vogel does have freak hand strength, though.

 

 

 

[maroonandwhite]

16 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

I could watch Vogel videos all day.  Here are a couple more where he discusses grip and grip strength.  One thing I've always believed and Vogel teaches is not to crush the gun with the firing hand.  Vogel does have freak hand strength, though.

 

 

 

Anyone that shoots out of their living room must be doing something right. 

[deerslayer]

And just in case anybody thinks Vogel can't shoot...he shoots the Ohio state pistol qual at 5x the distance and half the allowed time.

 

[maroonandwhite]

1 hour ago, deerslayer said:

And just in case anybody thinks Vogel can't shoot...he shoots the Ohio state pistol qual at 5x the distance and half the allowed time.

 

That’s impressive. 

[lock n' load]

Does anyone on here use these? I have used them sometimes to help diagnose what I'm doing wrong.

https://www.amazon.com/MarksmanSKLZ-Diagnostic-Training-Visibility-Correction/dp/B00KJQF4U6

[maroonandwhite]

1 hour ago, lock n' load said:

Does anyone on here use these? I have used them sometimes to help diagnose what I'm doing wrong.

https://www.amazon.com/MarksmanSKLZ-Diagnostic-Training-Visibility-Correction/dp/B00KJQF4U6

I’ve used something similar early on in my shooting. The red dot will get you that same feedback without firing a round though.  Unless of course you close your eyes when you shoot.