What’s wrong with my grip?

[Rainsford]

I went shooting last night with my Glock 45. I noticed 2 things. First, I was consistently low left. My friend was dead on with it, so I know it’s me, not the gun.

Second, I have a sore and bruise on my first thumb knuckle closest to my palm (pictured below you can see the red dot). 
 

Is something wrong with my grip? Any suggestions?

 

 

[Smith]

Yes, a way over tight grip. Using a two hand grip, you want to be pushing your right hand into your left hand and your left hand pushing back on the right hand. You want a firm but light grip with your right hand. 

You can tell by dry firing. With just your right hand, dry fire like you would at the range. I believe you will see (with an over tight grip) when you squeeze the trigger, the torque from your trigger finger is pulling the gun left and down.

You want you your trigger finger coming straight back into the gun. Trigger should be to the left side of the trigger finger first knuckle.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Smith

[TripleGGG]

Agree with @Smithvery tight grip. Need a firm grip but don't try and strangle the gun.

If I am truly practicing, not just burning lead, I video all my shots from multiple angles. You can spot bad habits very quick. 

 

[Smith]

This does a better job putting it into visual. Go to 5:46 for your particular question. https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=397&v=vmnLA2DuYJs&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&feature=emb_logo

[TGO David]

@62caster - This video is worth watching.  It takes some reps to get the procedure down, but once you do it's solid and adapts to practically any semi-auto handgun.

Bear in mind that that there is some off-color language in this video.  If you've got kids around, maybe wait or listen with headphones. 

 

 

 

[Rainsford]

53 minutes ago, TGO David said:

@62caster - This video is worth watching.  It takes some reps to get the procedure down, but once you do it's solid and adapts to practically any semi-auto handgun.

Bear in mind that that there is some off-color language in this video.  If you've got kids around, maybe wait or listen with headphones. 

 

 

 

That’s helpful! So less right hand, more left hand grip.

[TGO David]

14 minutes ago, 62caster said:

That’s helpful! So less right hand, more left hand grip.

Yes, if you are a right-handed shooter you want more squeeze from your support (left) hand.

This is more noticeable with a dot optic on your gun, but you can notice even in in dry-firing that if you squeeze more with your dominant (right) hand, your point of impact will shift toward the left when you break the trigger with your finger.  If you release some pressure with your dominant hand, your point of impact won't move much or any.

When I dry fire, I watch what my dot is doing.  If it moves ANY, I know I didn't form my grip properly.

 

[NoBanStan]

Popping up like the ghost of Christmas past on this one (I haven't posted in YEARS).

These guys are steering you right, though I would add a bit. Down and to the left also sounds like you're anticipating recoil and you have too much finger on the trigger.

TDR is dead on, get a video of yourself, that will tell you alot. A couple other things you can do.

1. ensure the gun is unloaded and put a piece of spent brass on the front sight (or as close as you can get it). Then pull the trigger naturally, see if it falls off. work the slide and try it again (did i say yet to make sure it was empty?). Don't fire a live round until you can balance that thing consistently

2. have your buddy load your magazine but sneak in a snap cap somewhere in there. When you hit it, you'll likely notice how much recoil anticipation you're doing because your gun will dip without the "boom"

3. squeeze the trigger, don't pull it or yank it. It should surprise you. Make sure you're using 3/4 pad on your index (just google it for pictures). Try to teach yourself to bend the trigger finger from your second knuckle, not the third. If you're bending the entire finger, you will push the gun left (assuming you're righty).

[Rainsford]

1 hour ago, NoBanStan said:

Popping up like the ghost of Christmas past on this one (I haven't posted in YEARS).

These guys are steering you right, though I would add a bit. Down and to the left also sounds like you're anticipating recoil and you have too much finger on the trigger.

TDR is dead on, get a video of yourself, that will tell you alot. A couple other things you can do.

1. ensure the gun is unloaded and put a piece of spent brass on the front sight (or as close as you can get it). Then pull the trigger naturally, see if it falls off. work the slide and try it again (did i say yet to make sure it was empty?). Don't fire a live round until you can balance that thing consistently

2. have your buddy load your magazine but sneak in a snap cap somewhere in there. When you hit it, you'll likely notice how much recoil anticipation you're doing because your gun will dip without the "boom"

3. squeeze the trigger, don't pull it or yank it. It should surprise you. Make sure you're using 3/4 pad on your index (just google it for pictures). Try to teach yourself to bend the trigger finger from your second knuckle, not the third. If you're bending the entire finger, you will push the gun left (assuming you're righty).

Thanks so much! Good tip on the empty brass. I’ll have ti try that out. I don’t know why my mind can’t comprehend #3 very well but I’ll try to find some videos and pictures.

[NoBanStan]

2 minutes ago, 62caster said:

Thanks so much! Good tip on the empty brass. I’ll have ti try that out. I don’t know why my mind can’t comprehend #3 very well but I’ll try to find some videos and pictures.

Found that online... I am not a cat person.

https://www.elegantandarmed.com/blog/trigger-pull-is-doing-whats-natural-messing-up-your-shot  This lady seems to have a good writeup and pictures.

 

[BigK]

Shooting accurately is a really simple 2 step process: 1. get a proper aim on the target and 2. pull the trigger w/out upsetting the sight picture before the bullet exits the barrel. 

There's a ton of variable in those 2 steps though, right? That brass on the slide exercise is worth its weight in gold to find/overcome the variables.

[NoBanStan]

42 minutes ago, BigK said:

Shooting accurately is a really simple 2 step process: 1. get a proper aim on the target and 2. pull the trigger w/out upsetting the sight picture before the bullet exits the barrel. 

There's a ton of variable in those 2 steps though, right? That brass on the slide exercise is worth its weight in gold to find/overcome the variables.

You were with me when that lady kept hitting the metal divider at the range... she was maybe 2 feet to the right at 10 yards! I made her do the brass trick for about 10 minutes and then suddenly she's shooting softball sized groups center mass.

[TGO David]

3 hours ago, NoBanStan said:

Popping up like the ghost of Christmas past on this one (I haven't posted in YEARS).

These guys are steering you right, though I would add a bit. Down and to the left also sounds like you're anticipating recoil and you have too much finger on the trigger.

You're not wrong, but as I've refined my grip over the years I've noticed that I can slap the trigger all I want and the point of impact stays true with point of aim.  A proper grip will keep trigger manipulation of almost any sort from disturbing the point of impact.

Years ago I had read something from Rob Latham about this very thing and wrongly assumed that it was Rob being superhuman.  Once I got my grip right, I realized that he was just speaking truth.  Proper grip fixes almost everything.

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, NoBanStan said:

Found that online... I am not a cat person.

This sounds just like something a cat person would say.   

[NoBanStan]

Just now, TGO David said:

This sounds just like something a cat person would say.   

Don't judge me!

Good to "see" you David.

[TGO David]

8 minutes ago, NoBanStan said:

Don't judge me!

Good to "see" you David.

Likewise!  Glad you're posting!

[chances R]

Look at pictures of any of the top shooters' forearms.....they are tight with well defined muscles.  This is from a firm, very tight grip.  Maximum force short of tremor.  This is the most easily repeatable grip.  One cannot consistently apply 'lighter' grip.  To help maximize one's grip, the small finger on both hands has to be really in play as well.  Shake hands with someone using and then NOT using the small finger.  Grip strength is almost 20% greater when you make the small finger really work.  This also helps prevent milking the grip and pulling shots....mostly to the left.  Additionally, if you don't really clamp down with the support hand,  your gun has less left sided resistance and will tend to migrate to that side.  After good rounds of practice, either dry or live, your forearms should feel some fatigue due to the work required for grip.  Also keep the thumbs loose, another common cause of pushing the gun.  Consistent thumb pressure just can't happen...leave them loose, flopping in the wind so to speak.

[Sleep profit]

9 hours ago, Smith said:

Yes, a way over tight grip. Using a two hand grip, you want to be pushing your right hand into your left hand and your left hand pushing back on the right hand. You want a firm but light grip with your right hand. 

You can tell by dry firing. With just your right hand, dry fire like you would at the range. I believe you will see (with an over tight grip) when you squeeze the trigger, the torque from your trigger finger is pulling the gun left and down.

You want you your trigger finger coming straight back into the gun. Trigger should be to the left side of the trigger finger first knuckle.

I agree and get what you’re saying but can a over tight grip cause a sore and a bruise on a young man ? Like shown Never have seen that  Are the thumbs overlapped or pointing forward 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Sleep profit

[Smith]

12 minutes ago, Sleep profit said:

I agree and get what you’re saying but can a over tight grip cause a sore and a bruise on a young man ? Like shown Never have seen that  Are the thumbs overlapped or pointing forward 

Yes. Because the recoil is coming in sideways and slapping into that spot instead of inline into the palm of the hand and arm. Seen it before.

[Sleep profit]

Ok thanks I learned something new

[chances R]

2 hours ago, Sleep profit said:

I agree and get what you’re saying but can a over tight grip cause a sore and a bruise on a young man ? Like shown Never have seen that  Are the thumbs overlapped or pointing forward 

I suggest that he is gripping with the thumbs, and there should not be any pressure on the thumbs at all.  If the grip is firm there should not be movement to slap the thumbs, especially in 9mm.

Probably best to get with a good instructor to help.  Will save experimentation and possibly developing a flinch that will be problamatic.  I'll check the RangeMaster roster to see if there is one in your area.  I know there are several in Nashville.

Edited February 18, 2023 by chances R

[chances R]

https://ontargetshootingsports.com/

Check with Chris Norville in Murfreesboro

[JustEd]

Snap caps and dry fire against a safe, preferably white, object or wall. 

*Remember rule #2

You will see how your grip and trigger finger affect where the front sight goes at the moment the striker is let off.

Adjust your grip and trigger finger until the front sight does not move when dry firing. 

Keep practicing that technique until it become automatic.

edit:  Glock's often leave marks on my hand if not using a glove or tape.  Am more worried about where it shoots than an "owie."  btw, My 1911 with fancy walnut grips does the same thing but because the checkering is so sharp.

Edited February 20, 2023 by JustEd

[gregintenn]

On 2/17/2023 at 11:59 AM, NoBanStan said:

Popping up like the ghost of Christmas past on this one (I haven't posted in YEARS).

These guys are steering you right, though I would add a bit. Down and to the left also sounds like you're anticipating recoil and you have too much finger on the trigger.

TDR is dead on, get a video of yourself, that will tell you alot. A couple other things you can do.

1. ensure the gun is unloaded and put a piece of spent brass on the front sight (or as close as you can get it). Then pull the trigger naturally, see if it falls off. work the slide and try it again (did i say yet to make sure it was empty?). Don't fire a live round until you can balance that thing consistently

2. have your buddy load your magazine but sneak in a snap cap somewhere in there. When you hit it, you'll likely notice how much recoil anticipation you're doing because your gun will dip without the "boom"

3. squeeze the trigger, don't pull it or yank it. It should surprise you. Make sure you're using 3/4 pad on your index (just google it for pictures). Try to teach yourself to bend the trigger finger from your second knuckle, not the third. If you're bending the entire finger, you will push the gun left (assuming you're righty).

#1 take some concentration! Glad to see you posting again. I appreciate the tips and expect others or as well.

Edited February 20, 2023 by gregintenn

[Erich]

I’ll throw in a glock specific thing to look for on top of all the ideas presented related to the mark on your thumb. If you’re  gripping high into the tang, it’s possible that the slide is grazing that knuckle as it cycles.  A right off passage with Glocks, the infamous Glock bite.

Most of the time  it’s presents a bit differently, more of a long tear in the skin, but its the right spot and can vary depending on how high into the tang you’re getting and where your hold places the thumb.  If you’re borderline high without the skin folding over much, you would get more of a small contact spot like that instead of the larger bite.  

Glocks don’t have a beaver tail to prevent it, and the rear ledge is easy enough to over ride if you’re  choking up trying to control it. Simple  to see by using your normal grip and pressure. As you present, see where that knuckle is relative to the plane of the underside of the side.  If its close, good bet the slide is giving you a love tap once in a while.