CCW Safe question

[lock n' load]

How many on here use CCW Safe and if so, did you opt for the extra civil liability add-on? It's an extra $200/yr and I wasn't sure if I should get it or just stick with the standard plan. Thanks.

[TripleGGG]

I have CCW and definitely would add the civil liability coverage.

In a shooting you are definitely going to be defending civil cases whether you are charged with a crime or not. 

[DHF]

I have been a member of CCW Safe for a few years now.  I have what they now call their Ultimate Plan.  I agree with TripleGGG, you should seriously look at a plan that includes civil liability coverage.

They used to run a 10% discount on your first year through partners such as Law of Self Defense and Calguns but I don't believe they are doing it as often.  You can do a little searching and see if you find a code out there.

[TripleGGG]

11 minutes ago, DHF said:

I have been a member of CCW Safe for a few years now.  I have what they now call their Ultimate Plan.  I agree with TripleGGG, you should seriously look at a plan that includes civil liability coverage.

They used to run a 10% discount on your first year through partners such as Law of Self Defense and Calguns but I don't believe they are doing it as often.  You can do a little searching and see if you find a code out there.

I have the Ultimate plan on me and my wife. I also have ACLDN as well. 

[lock n' load]

I'm looking at getting the Defender plan. I'll most likely get the additional civil protection option as well. It would be nice if our legislation would pass sime kind of bill that provides civil immunity in a justified SD event. I think we have one that is tied to the Castle Doctrine law but I'm sure that wouldn't stop someone from trying to sue.

[crc4]

Also look at your homeowner's insurance for civil liability that would cover you for a civil suit for a SD claim. Mine has $300,000 on the HO policy and 1 million coverage as an add on for about $150-175. Plus, that HO policy covers everything that one could typically be sued for in addition to SD.

It is important to remember that any claims will only be paid for a SD action where the covered party comes to the incident with 'clean hands.' 

Some carry insurance policies do not cover you if you are found guilty, plead, or are convicted of an included lesser offence. Then you may be required to pay back all the monies spent on your behalf.

Another good reason to know SD law and legal justifications ahead of time. It's too late after the event, but you will be schooled at your peril.

[chances R]

It will be hard to get a definite answer from your HO insurance.  Doesn't mean you can't ask, but don't be surprised if you get a 'it depends" answer.  Also, in TN, if you have an adjudicated case of SD, you cannot be sued by the other party in a civil case.  Does not mean an inocent bystander/victim couldn't sue you though.

[TripleGGG]

1 hour ago, chances R said:

It will be hard to get a definite answer from your HO insurance.  Doesn't mean you can't ask, but don't be surprised if you get a 'it depends" answer.  Also, in TN, if you have an adjudicated case of SD, you cannot be sued by the other party in a civil case.  Does not mean an inocent bystander/victim couldn't sue you though.

This and remember you may not always be in the state of TN. 

[crc4]

33 minutes ago, TripleGGG said:

This and remember you may not always be in the state of TN. 

My liability and carry program follows me throughout the United States. It depends on what company you have.

[lock n' load]

I ended up getting the Defender plan with civil protection option.  Considering the cost, it is really miniscule compared to bail and attorney fees. I've been watching the self defense case of Luis Casado on Andrew Branca's YT channel. He had some damn good attorneys and was eventually aquitted. I'm sure he paid a pretty penny for them but they definitely earned their paycheck. The fees for expert witnesses on defense aren't cheap either. Good thing my plan covers all that.

[chances R]

A little bit of / on Casado.  He didn’t go to trial, which saved him a ton of money.  In FL there is a “Self Defense Immunity” law which worked like it was designed for. Still not cheap, but a bargain in this case. Another good example where Avoidance reigns supreme.

[lock n' load]

Does TN have such a law?

[lock n' load]

21 hours ago, DHF said:

I have been a member of CCW Safe for a few years now.  I have what they now call their Ultimate Plan.  I agree with TripleGGG, you should seriously look at a plan that includes civil liability coverage.

They used to run a 10% discount on your first year through partners such as Law of Self Defense and Calguns but I don't believe they are doing it as often.  You can do a little searching and see if you find a code out there.

This brings up a couple of questions I didnt really think about. Do the plans also cover incidents that may occur inside the home also such as home invasion or do you need to also purchase the Home Dender plan? I'm thinking I would need to get the extra policy but I could be wrong. I dddnt specifially see that info under the plan I bought. The same may also apply to getting the additional civil package to go with the Home Defense plan.

[DHF]

17 minutes ago, lock n' load said:

This brings up a couple of questions I didnt really think about. Do the plans also cover incidents that may occur inside the home also such as home invasion or do you need to also purchase the Home Dender plan? I'm thinking I would need to get the extra policy but I could be wrong. I dddnt specifially see that info under the plan I bought. The same may also apply to getting the additional civil package to go with the Home Defense plan.

If I was strapped for cash and there was a way to buy a plan that only covered in the home and a plan that only covered outside the home, I would want a plan that covered me outside the home before I worried about anything covering me in the my home.  If something happens in you household such as a home invasion, it will be a pretty clear cut case of who the aggressor is.  It is outside of your household where things get much more questionable.  I also want as much coverage as possible. 1 million dollars sounds like a lot but even that will get eaten up quickly.

[crc4]

Some carry programs do not provide coverage for incidents that take place within the home in all issues.

For instance, if you have an invited guest that gets drunk and threatens bodily harm and you're forced to shoot him, you're not covered.

Your drug-addict son goes wild and attacks your wife and your shoot him, you're not covered.

That's the reason to know specifically what you are covered and not covered for when looking at a carry protection program.

They are not all the same. These programs are in essence a contract and you and the company are bound by that contract. Read the fine print. That's what matters - not your assumptions or beliefs.

 

 

[lock n' load]

I guess it's kinda like insurance policies. You may have insurance to cover your car but, if for example, you rent an apartment, if you needed coverage for that, you would need to buy a separate renter's insurance policy.

[chances R]

21 hours ago, lock n' load said:

Does TN have such a law?

No, but would be nice if we did.

[crc4]

Here's quick look at Tennessee Self-Defense laws. It is not all, but does hit the salient points you should know and live by to have a legal and justified self-defense event.

Tennessee Self Defense Laws

At the bottom of that page, you can find out the laws on:

• Section 39-11-612 (Defense of Third Person)
• Section 39-11-613 (Protection of Life or Health)
• Section 39-11-614 (Protection of Property)
• Section 39-11-615 (Protection of Third Person's Property)

It's better to know than to assume.

 

[chances R]

While reading the above references, understand the difference between force and deadly force.  Two different things.  Force may be referred to as mere force.  

[crc4]

22 minutes ago, chances R said:

While reading the above references, understand the difference between force and deadly force.  Two different things.  Force may be referred to as mere force.  

You'll also hear/see it as non-deadly force. In self defense, non-deadly force and deadly force are the only two options.

To keep it simple always read 'force' as non-deadly force. Deadly force is (or should be) written as deadly force.

Knowing when one becomes the other is key to an intelligent response.

Edited January 24, 2023 by crc4

[lock n' load]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:12 AM, DHF said:

If I was strapped for cash and there was a way to buy a plan that only covered in the home and a plan that only covered outside the home, I would want a plan that covered me outside the home before I worried about anything covering me in the my home.  If something happens in you household such as a home invasion, it will be a pretty clear cut case of who the aggressor is.  It is outside of your household where things get much more questionable.  I also want as much coverage as possible. 1 million dollars sounds like a lot but even that will get eaten up quickly.

After going back through the terms again and verifying with CCW Safe, I was informed that the coverage also applies to home self defense as well minus the stipulations brought up earlier about family/domestic issues. I've also been watching some of their courses they offer on de-escalation and the monetary costs associated with legal defense for use of force situations. It is good info.

[crc4]

I know of no SD coverage that doesn't have exceptions. Some are more stringent that others or increase the cost for you to be covered in certain cases. Some exceptions are reasonable (not instigating the fight, not prolonging the fight).

That's another good reason to be sure of what coverage you're getting before you sign and particularly before you act on false assumptions.

 

 

[lock n' load]

There appears to be a stipulation that says you can't be under the influence of "mind alterimg"substances (alcohol, drugs, etc) when the use of force occurred.

[chances R]

15 minutes ago, lock n' load said:

There appears to be a stipulation that says you can't be under the influence of "mind alterimg"substances (alcohol, drugs, etc) when the use of force occurred.

not suprising and one should avoid carrying a firearm if that's the case anyway.  In fact, illegal to do so in TN.

[crc4]

17 minutes ago, lock n' load said:

There appears to be a stipulation that says you can't be under the influence of "mind alterimg"substances (alcohol, drugs, etc) when the use of force occurred.

I was talking today with my homeowner's agent about that very thing. My 1 million umbrella policy is up for renewal this Friday that covers SD events as long as the policy holder has 'clean hands." 

We're were discussing how many times people think they're covered for law suits, but any form of criminal negligence negates that coverage. That's the same for self defense coverage as well. 

That's as it should be. Keeps policy costs lower and scams to a minimum.

If you want to see a great movie about insurance fraud, watch "Double Indemnity" with Fred MacMurray, Barbara Stanwyck, and Edgar G. Robinson. It's a film noir classic.