5 Memphis cops fired after suspect killed

[Alleycat72]

15 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

Asking to wait until we see the video and giving them the benefit of the doubt. 

This is always a good idea. Regardless of your position on anything, bias comes out. I recall this one time I was told a cop shot a man in the back while he was on his knees with his hands up.

[bubbadavis]

10 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

To my knowledge, there was no helicopter up that night.  The “aerial” footage is from a pole mounted camera known as sky cop. 

Ah, my bad. My mind immediately went to a helicopter. I didn’t have the stomach to match enough footage to figure out it wasn’t. 
 

Thanks!

[tacops]

I have waited for more facts to make any comment on this.  The video is fact enough. As a retired LEO, that was simply a gang beat down, not an arrest.  There is nothing that Tyre could have done in the past or present that could justify this beating.  Mind you, there were a few times in my career that the urge arose to do so, such as arresting violent pedophiles, I did not and neither did my shift mates.  We made the arrest using only the force required to subdue. I imagine this will be a short trial, just show the video.

I would like to speak to the not as obvious that no one has mentioned.  I am curious as to how many years each of these thugs had on the force. Over the past 20 years I have watched as agencies large and small have lowered their hiring standards to fill positions for lack of qualified applicants, or applicants desired by ever increasingly liberal administrations.  Add this to the fact that when budgets in municipal and county agencies get tight the first area to be cut is training.  Now add on top of that the media and political far left attack in general on anybody that wears a badge.  As a professional old school LEO, this trend has been sad to watch.  Unfortunately I believe this is only going to get worse.  Just sad.

[gregintenn]

8 minutes ago, tacops said:

I have waited for more facts to make any comment on this.  The video is fact enough. As a retired LEO, that was simply a gang beat down, not an arrest.  There is nothing that Tyre could have done in the past or present that could justify this beating.  Mind you, there were a few times in my career that the urge arose to do so, such as arresting violent pedophiles, I did not and neither did my shift mates.  We made the arrest using only the force required to subdue. I imagine this will be a short trial, just show the video.

I would like to speak to the not as obvious that no one has mentioned.  I am curious as to how many years each of these thugs had on the force. Over the past 20 years I have watched as agencies large and small have lowered their hiring standards to fill positions for lack of qualified applicants, or applicants desired by ever increasingly liberal administrations.  Add this to the fact that when budgets in municipal and county agencies get tight the first area to be cut is training.  Now add on top of that the media and political far left attack in general on anybody that wears a badge.  As a professional old school LEO, this trend has been sad to watch.  Unfortunately I believe this is only going to get worse.  Just sad.

The main thing I’ve seen change is the fact there are now cameras everywhere. This is nothing new.

[Capbyrd]

51 minutes ago, tacops said:

I have waited for more facts to make any comment on this.  The video is fact enough. As a retired LEO, that was simply a gang beat down, not an arrest.  There is nothing that Tyre could have done in the past or present that could justify this beating.  Mind you, there were a few times in my career that the urge arose to do so, such as arresting violent pedophiles, I did not and neither did my shift mates.  We made the arrest using only the force required to subdue. I imagine this will be a short trial, just show the video.

I would like to speak to the not as obvious that no one has mentioned.  I am curious as to how many years each of these thugs had on the force. Over the past 20 years I have watched as agencies large and small have lowered their hiring standards to fill positions for lack of qualified applicants, or applicants desired by ever increasingly liberal administrations.  Add this to the fact that when budgets in municipal and county agencies get tight the first area to be cut is training.  Now add on top of that the media and political far left attack in general on anybody that wears a badge.  As a professional old school LEO, this trend has been sad to watch.  Unfortunately I believe this is only going to get worse.  Just sad.

The longest tenured of the five had just over five years.  A couple only three years. 
 

and I don’t buy the training argument.  You don’t train cops to be good human beings.  You train them in tactics, policy and law.  None of those are displayed in this series of videos.  These videos demonstrate 8 individuals failing on a basic human decency level.  The argument used to be, and people gave a pass for, that officers only encounter the worst of humanity and so they start to see everyone as less than human.   That doesn’t make it okay.  Not in the slightest.   These guys may have been great people.  But on January 7th, they committed some of the most heinous acts known to man.  I pray for Tyre’s family and the families of those officers.  

Edited January 28, 2023 by Capbyrd

[peejman]

30 minutes ago, tacops said:

I have waited for more facts to make any comment on this.  The video is fact enough. As a retired LEO, that was simply a gang beat down, not an arrest.  There is nothing that Tyre could have done in the past or present that could justify this beating.  Mind you, there were a few times in my career that the urge arose to do so, such as arresting violent pedophiles, I did not and neither did my shift mates.  We made the arrest using only the force required to subdue. I imagine this will be a short trial, just show the video.

I would like to speak to the not as obvious that no one has mentioned.  I am curious as to how many years each of these thugs had on the force. Over the past 20 years I have watched as agencies large and small have lowered their hiring standards to fill positions for lack of qualified applicants, or applicants desired by ever increasingly liberal administrations.  Add this to the fact that when budgets in municipal and county agencies get tight the first area to be cut is training.  Now add on top of that the media and political far left attack in general on anybody that wears a badge.  As a professional old school LEO, this trend has been sad to watch.  Unfortunately I believe this is only going to get worse.  Just sad.

It would be Interesting to know if gangs have begun to infiltrate the police.  Taking over institutions from within seems to be the new way.

All I know is there's a lot of people who need Jesus in their heart.  

[pop pop]

I have not watched the video. I seen the piece they ran, on channel 2, from the pole camera where they were wrestling with him, and one officer kicked him in the head, several times, while the other two officers appeared to be trying to subdue him.  It looks like a bad stop, but one never knows until one gets all the facts on any case. 

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

And those rumors and conjecture don’t contribute to the discussion, at this point.   I think a lot of people are trying to spread these “whys” to justify why people they generally seem to respect or “back” or support would do something like this.  And in my mind it distracts us from the fact that it did happen.  The why doesn’t matter.  They were driving MPD vehicles, getting paid by MPD and wearing MPD uniforms.  They represent not just Memphis but police officers nationwide.  We are a developed, supposedly free, nation.  Our law enforcement officials should never act in this manner, reasons be damned.  
 

If Tyre was sleeping with one of their girls, does it change anything?   They used their position of authority to take a man’s life.  That’s the point of this.  The why doesn’t change that for me.  

And we arent talking about one or two individuals.  

[tacops]

17 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

The longest tenured of the five had just over years.  A couple only three years. 

It was my suspicion that they were inexperienced young officers.  Some would argue that.  From my experience three years and less are automatic rookies still learning the job and more importantly how to deal with the authority of their positions.  These folks require mature strong supervision.  It would take at least five years of progressively proven commendable service to warrant placement on a so called special high crimes, quick response or tactical team assignment.  Their placement in this capacity was bad judgement of the Administration.

Edited January 28, 2023 by tacops

[Daniel]

20 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

the five had just over years.

just over how many years?

[gregintenn]

5 minutes ago, tacops said:

It was my suspicion that they were inexperienced young officers.  Some would argue that.  From my experience three years and less are automatic rookies still learning the job and more importantly how to deal with the authority of their positions.  These folks require mature strong supervision.  It would take at least five years of progressively proven commendable service to warrant placement on a so called special high crimes, quick response or tactical team assignment.  Their placement in this capacity was bad judgement of the Administration.

I read the police chief had been previously fired from the Atlanta police force. You’re right. The organization usually reflects it’s leadership.

[Capbyrd]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

just over how many years?

Sorry.  It’s five. 

[gregintenn]

What will this cost the taxpayers of Memphis?

[Capbyrd]

6 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

What will this cost the taxpayers of Memphis?

Not much.  The city has insurance policies for this stuff.  

[tacops]

50 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

and I don’t buy the training argument

I don't even begin to use training as an argument in this case.  But in general that is the first area cut during budget stress periods.  Most agencies have a year probationary period for all new hires.  It is during this time that a rookies' moral make up and maturity level should be assessed as to their fit for duty status.  If warning signs arise they should be let go, otherwise it would be considered negligent retention on the part of the administration.

It pains me to write these responses because I am about as pro-police as you can get, but what I see here is an insult to all the good officers and administrations out there.

Edited January 28, 2023 by tacops

[gregintenn]

I appreciate your service, tacops. Lord knows I couldn’t do it!

[Grayfox54]

39 minutes ago, tacops said:

It would take at least five years of progressively proven commendable service to warrant placement on a so called special high crimes, quick response or tactical team assignment.  Their placement in this capacity was bad judgement of the Administration.

There was one report that said one of the former officers said he never requested the Scorpion Unit. He was just assigned to it out of the blue. I kinda get the impression that admin was looking to fill this unit with a certain type. 

For the record, I am and always have been a firm supporter of Police. When I worked for Bartlett, I dealt with our cops on pretty much a daily basis. The vast majority of them are good people. We would get an occasional bad apple, but they never lasted very long. But then, I dealt with the person not the cop. 

OTOH: being right next door to Memphis, I have had to deal with MPD from time to time. Frankly, they don't impress me one bit. Most of them come off as dumb as a box of rocks. Its been well known around here for quite some time that Memphis has trouble recruiting new officers. Therefore they have lowered their standards quite a bit. It shows. 

Another big issue with MPD is that good candidates will get hired on because its fairly easy. They get trained, work a couple of years for experience and then take off for greener pastures. They just can't keep the good ones. 

[tacops]

35 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I appreciate your service, tacops. Lord knows I couldn’t do it!

Thanks much, the profession has changed a lot just in the last 10 years and not for the better.  I miss the job but could not stand the politics that now permeate the profession.  I left with many good stories to tell and many that don't need to be told due to the ugliness of humanity they portray, those I keep to myself.

[TGO David]

John Harris at the TFA posted this blog entry today.  It's an interesting read.

Memphis police conduct and the law of self-defense - Tennessee Firearms Association

 

Frankly, I have a feeling that a citizen who rightfully used deadly force to defend himself or herself from police officers would probably not live long enough to make it to the hospital.  Multiple, armed, assailants wearing body armor and beating your ass does not present a scenario where the odds are in your favor.

I find it more than a little ironic that a citizen wearing body armor during the commission of a crime receives additional charges because of the armor.  I wonder, does that apply to the police as well?

 

 

[threeshot]

Another two Shelby County Sheriff 's officers are being investigated when they arrived to the incident.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11686803/Tennessee-sheriff-stands-two-deputies-orders-new-investigation-Tyre-Nichols-death.html

[Grayfox54]

Yeah, that was on the news last night. Bonner has always struck me as a level headed kinda guy. But every cop is under the microscope here right now. And he has said he plans to run for Mayor. Politics I guess. 

[BigK]

The people I know that usually defend LEO at costs are silent on this one. I pray that's because there's nothing defensible about this case instead of because the cops weren't white this time. 

The conversation in the aftermath did sound more like a bunch of street thugs than cops to me though. I saw zero professional law enforcement training displayed in this case, just a group of bullies trying to hurt a guy half their size.

[TGO David]

After watching the video, and lacking any additional evidence that might not be disclosed yet, my opinion is that the police officers who beat this man to death should face the death penalty and that their date with the executioner should not be delayed any more than is necessary.

Officers who didn't contribute to his injuries but neglected to stop the others who were beating him should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I didn't agree with the way that the public reacted to most of the things that occurred over the past 2-3 years, but on this one I think that the public is justified in burning the Memphis Police Department to the ground.  Figuratively and literally.

 

[MacGyver]

A lot of chatter seems to be continuing in the press about his relationship to the some of the officers. If there is shown to be a prior there - then the charges should absolutely be upgraded to 1st degree murder as there would have been clear intent.

I see a lot of people in law enforcement up to and including their chief (who stood up this unit) trying to distance themselves from this incident.  But this is exactly the system we’ve built.

Put yourself in an incoming chief’s shoes. How do you reform this? Even if you were to burn it down and start from scratch?

We clearly need law enforcement - so don’t take this as an abolitionist comment - but I’m not sure we can get where we need to go as communities and a nation with the tools we’ve got.  

[TGO David]

4 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Put yourself in an incoming chief’s shoes. How do you reform this? Even if you were to burn it down and start from scratch?

We clearly need law enforcement - so don’t take this as an abolitionist comment - but I’m not sure we can get where we need to go as communities and a nation with the tools we’ve got.  

Most things worth doing aren't easy.  An incoming chief will have to fix this the old-fashioned way:  hard work.