Pistol Brace Rule

[Capbyrd]

2 hours ago, guyver60 said:

You may find this guy with Washington Gun Law  interesting as he breaks down the rule on braces.  He's also got other videos on the brace lawsuit, gun trusts, etc - most are typically no more than about 10 minutes in length.

I’ve only seen one clip from one of his videos where he says that a trust can’t own non nfa items.  That may be so in Washington, but it’s not here so I clicked away and wrote him off as a poor source of information. 

[Lumber_Jack]

6 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

I’ve only seen one clip from one of his videos where he says that a trust can’t own non nfa items.  That may be so in Washington, but it’s not here so I clicked away and wrote him off as a poor source of information. 

Yeah, I’d question this validity even in Washington state. A trust can hold anything from land to cars to jewelery whatever. An NFA trust is just a trust like any other it’s just geared towards satisfying the ATF requirements for qualified persons. So you control the schedule sheet, you can add anything you wish to the trust including non-NFA firearms. 
 

if I’m wrong I welcome correction

[DHF]

3 hours ago, Lumber_Jack said:

Yeah, I’d question this validity even in Washington state. A trust can hold anything from land to cars to jewelery whatever. An NFA trust is just a trust like any other it’s just geared towards satisfying the ATF requirements for qualified persons. So you control the schedule sheet, you can add anything you wish to the trust including non-NFA firearms. 
 

if I’m wrong I welcome correction

I agree that I would think your NFA trust could take ownership.  William Kirk's video lays out the "legal" ownership per NFA forms, etc...  but you and I can do a deal today on a non-NFA item and you are now the owner.  The only way to really know if it would fly with the NFA is to try it.  If I was planning on taking advantage of this situation, I would have transferred any pistol I may have owned into my NFA Trust and submitted the paperwork to see what happened.  Especially as I would not want to own any such items if they were not in a Trust.  I would take into consideration that it may not work, but oh well if it doesn't.  We will probably hear reports in the future of people trying it but I would also expect that results may vary among those that try.  As a post I put up on this thread Tuesday 01/31/2023 mentioned, the NFA FAQ on this issue states:

Appears they acknowledge that a trust can own a firearm prior to registering it as an NFA item.

Hope fully this will get shot down by the courts and this conversation will just be academic... until we get to have it again in a year or two, anyway.

[Lumber_Jack]

You don’t need to submit anything to the ATF to add non-NFA regulated items to the trust. The trust is just a legal document. The only reason the ATF has any say at all is because you have transferred a regulated item into the trust and they are regulators if those items. As for any other item in the trust all you need is an amendment to the trust and add the item to the schedule sheet. And at the time of your demise all items in the trust will automatically transfer to the beneficiaries listed regardless of NFA status. The ATF can’t tell you that you are forbidden to add firearms to an NFA trust, they don’t have that authority 

[Lumber_Jack]

21 minutes ago, DHF said:

If I was As a post I put up on this thread Tuesday 01/31/2023 mentioned, the NFA FAQ on this issue states:

Appears they acknowledge that a trust can own a firearm prior to registering it as an NFA item.

 

Yes we discussed this at the local silencer shop last week. The schedule sheet is just hand writing. How would they know or audit of the braced item was on the sheet prior to the publish date? I could say it was on there 5 years ago, or anytime after I bought the brace and the publish date.  
 

im not fooling with any of this bullish I’m just going to sbr it the old fashion way. I was planning to do that right when the whole brace things became popular and I just never submitted the form 1. Now I wished I had already done it. 

[RED333]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:36 PM, Moped said:

This crap is just a bureaucratic power grab, by the ATF. And driven by the greedy powers that be in DC, that are scared of We The People. 

This for 1000000 times!!!

[DHF]

2 hours ago, Lumber_Jack said:

Yes we discussed this at the local silencer shop last week. The schedule sheet is just hand writing. How would they know or audit of the braced item was on the sheet prior to the publish date? I could say it was on there 5 years ago, or anytime after I bought the brace and the publish date.  
 

im not fooling with any of this bullish I’m just going to sbr it the old fashion way. I was planning to do that right when the whole brace things became popular and I just never submitted the form 1. Now I wished I had already done it. 

Copy on this.  I do not have any plans to do so either.  I have already gone through the process and have multiple SBRs in my trust and am glad I did it through the system and would not want to partake in this BS, either.  When I did my most recent one, the pistol brace thing was up in the air the first time and I was advised that it may be free in a month.  I decided then that it wasn't worth the savings.  They aren't exactly known for operating in good faith.

Getting an NFA Trust and some shiny items to put in it was one of the best things I ever did and I highly recommend everyone consider it while they still have the option to do so.

As you mentioned earlier, they do not know what you have amended to your trust or anything about it until you file it with them.  But they (or a court) probably won't recognize something if it is not notarized. 

[Omega]

Well, I'll spin the wheel.  I'm going to submit any lower originally purchased through an FFL as  pistol lower, with brace, for a free stamp.  My lowers purchased as stripped lowers will remain pistols.  

I'm going the paper route, I ordered and received my Form 1s from the ATF so the most it will cost is the fingerprint ink I ordered, and postage to send them in.

[Whisper]

50 minutes ago, Omega said:

Well, I'll spin the wheel.  I'm going to submit any lower originally purchased through an FFL as  pistol lower, with brace, for a free stamp.  My lowers purchased as stripped lowers will remain pistols.  

I'm going the paper route, I ordered and received my Form 1s from the ATF so the most it will cost is the fingerprint ink I ordered, and postage to send them in.

I'm thinking I will do the same. 

[turkeydad]

maybe this will help...

 

[DHF]

16 minutes ago, turkeydad said:

maybe this will help...

 

Guns & Gadgets did a nice video on this as well.  We can only hope that they are able to chip away legally at this but the forces out there trying to take away our rights are many and their ignorance is strong.

[Dustbuster]

Brought to you by the folks that never win against outlaw clubs they investigate for years, distributors of weapons that kill other gov agents,, and like to shoot up churches and children while serving warrants based on hearsay....useless agency. More cowbell. dont need a fng wrist brace anyway...just use the old spray and pray method, go brandon

Edited February 11, 2023 by Dustbuster

[JamesZ28]

   so if you register your ar pistol as a sbr, at a later date will you be able to go back to the ar pistol if all this gets overturned/dropped.  Or are you stuck turning it into a rifle then?

[DHF]

2 minutes ago, JamesZ28 said:

   so if you register your ar pistol as a sbr, at a later date will you be able to go back to the ar pistol if all this gets overturned/dropped.  Or are you stuck turning it into a rifle then?

My understanding is that if it started out as a pistol, it can be returned to being a pistol.

If this all gets overturned/dropped and you wish to do so, you should be able to put a pistol brace back on the firearm.  But the firearm will still be registered with the NFA as an SBR unless you go through the process of de-registering it with them.

[Erik88]

Has there been any update on this? I know various lawsuits have been filed. I'm curious if anything will stop this from becoming permanent. 

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

Has there been any update on this? I know various lawsuits have been filed. I'm curious if anything will stop this from becoming permanent. 

Nothing too much. The process is in process. 

[BigK]

I hope something happens soon before it's time to take mine boating.

[Sleep profit]

9 hours ago, BigK said:

9 hours ago, BigK said:

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Sleep profit

[hipower]

On 2/10/2023 at 5:58 PM, turkeydad said:

maybe this will help...

 

Thanks for the link. Although I had seen this particular one, it did lead to several others that were interesting. Although they all say pretty much the same thing on this topic, they offered a more easily understandable commentary.

 

[TGO David]

 

 

[turkeydad]

3 hours ago, TGO David said:

 

 

Exactly, that's the way I feel. We are being systemically criminalized.

They have activated their social Brown Shirts now known as ANTIFA to create social unrest.

Now follows the propaganda for totalitarian control to save the children.

The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.

Adolf Hitler

Please forgive me for going political on this. And maybe I should just stock up on tinfoil...but dang man it's almost like a screenplay.

Edited April 11, 2023 by turkeydad