Pistol Brace Rule

[DHF]

7 minutes ago, willki said:

But as I understand it, if the item was not SBR before then you could not put it in a trust.  In some video I watched recently they mentioned that you can only put NFA items into a firearms trust like that.  So the video I saw presented it as a catch-22. You have to have these "pistols" in a trust before they magically turn into rifles.  But there is no way to get "pistols" into a trust since they are not NFA items yet.  Maybe I misunderstood what they were saying.  All this trust information is very new to me. 

Many years ago, I had a lot of NFA items in an LLC and that made it easy to add people to the LLC and eventually it helped when selling them as I sold the entire LLC to a new buyer.

I agree with you.  It appears to be circular.  In a state such as Tennessee, I believe I could move/add an item to a trust with an amendment and have it notarized.  If I had the trust in place before the rules publication date and the item was placed in the trust before this date as well (with proof), I could submit this to the ATF and see if it was accepted.

I don't plan on registering anything during this window and am making donations to aid in it and other overreaching actions being overturned.  But, this would have been the method I employed as I wouldn't want to deal with an "NFA Item" that wasn't part of a trust.  Past the date now, so all speculation.

[jeff43]

All of this is sooo clear and easy to understand!

[lock n' load]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:41 PM, Chucktshoes said:

It is, until you put a brace on it. Then it’s an SBS. 

I got suckered into buying one when I bought my Shockwave but it is the "Cruiser" length 18.5". Anyways, I didnt care for it and ended up just putting a 12" LOP stock on it and now the brace just collects dust as I have no need for it. Do I have register the brace or does it only apply when it's attached to a AR pistol or 14" barrel Shockwave/Tac 14 shotgun?

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, lock n' load said:

I got suckered into buying one when I bought my Shockwave but it is the "Cruiser" length 18.5". Anyways, I didnt care for it and ended up just putting a 12" LOP stock on it and now the brace just collects dust as I have no need for it. Do I have register the brace or does it only apply when it's attached to a AR pistol or 14" barrel Shockwave/Tac 14 shotgun?

Brace alone poses no issue at all. 

[lock n' load]

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know if I'd need to either register it, destroy it or turn it in to my local PD. I don't plan on using for anything. I just didn't want to take a chance on becoming a felon over a whim with the ATF.

[DHF]

The video that Jared at Guns & Gadgets posted today from a training seminar with the ATF tries to explain some current questions asked of the ATF on this.  As much as answers from a government agency and it agents can explain anything clearly.

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by DHF

[willki]

If you have a pistol with a folding brace attached to it, now that the rule is published, can you sell it if you want to without that being a NFA transfer?  or does any sale of a pistol with a folding brace now require a $200 fee and long wait for approval?

There are currently many for sale here and on gunbroker and other places.  Are these now illegal to transfer without a Form 4?

Edited February 1, 2023 by willki

[DHF]

3 hours ago, willki said:

If you have a pistol with a folding brace attached to it, now that the rule is published, can you sell it if you want to without that being a NFA transfer?  or does any sale of a pistol with a folding brace now require a $200 fee and long wait for approval?

There are currently many for sale here and on gunbroker and other places.  Are these now illegal to transfer without a Form 4?

The rule doesn't take effect until 120 days after being published so it looks like an individual has until May 31st, 2023 until it takes effect.  I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV or the YouTubes, though.

Edited February 1, 2023 by DHF

[Chucktshoes]

29 minutes ago, DHF said:

The rule doesn't take effect until 120 days after being published so it looks like an individual has until May 31st, 2023 until it takes effect.  I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV or the YouTubes, though.

An FFL on the other hand must comply immediately. 

[Fourtyfive]

Went to a UPS store today and used Printscan to get a digital fingerprint file that is accepted with the e-form. Filed 3 free SBR form 1’s today. I’m gonna take free while it’s available. Your mileage may vary….

https://www.printscan.com
 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Fourtyfive

[BHunted]

12 hours ago, Fourtyfive said:

Went to a UPS store today and used Printscan to get a digital fingerprint file that is accepted with the e-form. Filed 3 free SBR form 1’s today. I’m gonna take free while it’s available. Your mileage may vary….

https://www.printscan.com
 

What it cost ya? That site does not list them up front.

[Fourtyfive]

1 hour ago, BHunted said:

What it cost ya? That site does not list them up front.

$65 but the file is good for other stamps as well, no mailing! They will mail two cards to you but I don’t think I have a use for them, I’ll just put them in my ATF file.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Fourtyfive

[DHF]

17 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

$65 but the file is good for other stamps as well, no mailing! They will mail two cards to you but I don’t think I have a use for them, I’ll just put them in my ATF file.

Did you use the Finger Print or the ATF option?  If you don't mind, I would appreciate an outline of your experience with their service and how it worked, as I am sure others would.

[Fourtyfive]

36 minutes ago, DHF said:

Did you use the Finger Print or the ATF option?  If you don't mind, I would appreciate an outline of your experience with their service and how it worked, as I am sure others would.

As I recall I used ATF and put in the description for FBI card whatever the number is of the card they use. It was shown in the description. It had me choose off a map the office closest to me by zip code. I chose a UPS store / date / time. When I arrived the employee pointed to a device sitting on a table and said just sit down and hit start. After a few demo screens I was prompted to get an employee to verify my credentials, they then put in a code to get me going. 
I was prompted to do the finger tips and thumbs and then moved on to rolling prints. I can tell you that I had a heck of a time getting it to read my prints, they at first just would not show up on the screen. I had other employees come over and theirs appeared instantly. We called the company  and a person tried to help me while they viewed the screen remotely. There is a metal frame that surrounds the pad that reads your print, you must contact that metal band while your finger is on the screen. Nothing was working for me, the guy on the phone wanted me to stop and just get paper ones done. It finally hit me, if everyone else in there could do it and I was having so much trouble maybe my skin on my lower fingers was just to dry for it to know I was making contact with the metal band. I put some of that pink paper grip stuff on my lower fingers near the palm and it worked perfectly. Lesson learned…..the guy on the phone with the company said “ Ya know, we just have some people this won’t work on but I think you just solved our problem.”

[DHF]

7 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

As I recall I used ATF and put in the description for FBI card whatever the number is of the card they use. It was shown in the description. It had me choose off a map the office closest to me by zip code. I chose a UPS store / date / time. When I arrived the employee pointed to a device sitting on a table and said just sit down and hit start. After a few demo screens I was prompted to get an employee to verify my credentials, they then put in a code to get me going. 
I was prompted to do the finger tips and thumbs and then moved on to rolling prints. I can tell you that I had a heck of a time getting it to read my prints, they at first just would not show up on the screen. I had other employees come over and theirs appeared instantly. We called the company  and a person tried to help me while they viewed the screen remotely. There is a metal frame that surrounds the pad that reads your print, you must contact that metal band while your finger is on the screen. Nothing was working for me, the guy on the phone wanted me to stop and just get paper ones done. It finally hit me, if everyone else in there could do it and I was having so much trouble maybe my skin on my lower fingers was just to dry for it to know I was making contact with the metal band. I put some of that pink paper grip stuff on my lower fingers near the palm and it worked perfectly. Lesson learned…..the guy on the phone with the company said “ Ya know, we just have some people this won’t work on but I think you just solved our problem.”

I have used a Silencer Shop kiosk and had the same trouble.  It was myself and another person in my trust.  We both had the same problems.  It was absolutely painful.  Employees at the store said it happened a lot.  I darn near through in the towel and went and had them done with ink.  Finally quite worrying if the system said they were passable and just went with it as I was told they would be inspected before submission, anyway.  They ended up going through but was just about more trouble than it was worth as it even took longer than it would have to have just have cards physically.

I appreciate you sharing your experience and I will definitely make note of your tip.  I hope it helps others as well.

[Fourtyfive]

9 minutes ago, DHF said:

I have used a Silencer Shop kiosk and had the same trouble.  It was myself and another person in my trust.  We both had the same problems.  It was absolutely painful.  Employees at the store said it happened a lot.  I darn near through in the towel and went and had them done with ink.  Finally quite worrying if the system said they were passable and just went with it as I was told they would be inspected before submission, anyway.  They ended up going through but was just about more trouble than it was worth as it even took longer than it would have to have just have cards physically.

I appreciate you sharing your experience and I will definitely make note of your tip.  I hope it helps others as well.

Yeah, I was not leaving till I figured it out! I asked the UPS employee when the last successful prints were taken and he said “an hour ago, we’ve had 5 people this morning.” It just hit me as a last resort to try getting a better connection with my skin on that metal band and success! Sending that file with an e-form is so easy. All 3 forms show as submitted and in-process this morning.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Fourtyfive

[turkeydad]

Well at least there are members of the House at least talking about this. And the little gal from Colorado  at about 10 minutes in is smoking hot.  

 

 

[Capbyrd]

26 minutes ago, turkeydad said:

Well at least there are members of the House at least talking about this. And the little gal from Colorado  at about 10 minutes in is smoking hot.  

 

 

She ain’t bad.   Seems an empty room though. 

[Smith]

My biggest thing is that by going from a pistol to an SBR, I am now crippled on transporting, crossing state lines, vehicle carry, and carry ability with my current HCP. I prefer to keep them in pistol status and wait this thing out. I got used to the Uzi push/pull sling method before the brace and if necessary will go back to that method. 

[Erik88]

11 minutes ago, Smith said:

My biggest thing is that by going from a pistol to an SBR, I am now crippled on transporting, crossing state lines, vehicle carry, and carry ability with my current HCP. I prefer to keep them in pistol status and wait this thing out. I got used to the Uzi push/pull sling method before the brace and if necessary will go back to that method. 

And once you SBR, how does it work with a spouse? If I die, my wife wouldn't be able to be in possession right? 

[eRay]

10 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

And once you SBR, how does it work with a spouse? If I die, my wife wouldn't be able to be in possession right? 

The way it was explained to me 25 years ago when I got my Class 3 dealers license is an NFA firearm can be possessed by the executor of your estate and transferred by the executor to an heir named in your will on a form 5 with no transfer tax. This was 25 years ago and may have been changed but my guess is it still works this way.

[turkeydad]

8 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

She ain’t bad.   Seems an empty room though. 

No she ain't.  Oh yeah there's no teeth behind their words yet. And any bill would have to pass the Senate and then get signed by Sleepy Joe before it became law. Perhaps they could do something to inhibit funding. 

[Fourtyfive]

9 hours ago, Eray said:

The way it was explained to me 25 years ago when I got my Class 3 dealers license is an NFA firearm can be possessed by the executor of your estate and transferred by the executor to an heir named in your will on a form 5 with no transfer tax. This was 25 years ago and may have been changed but my guess is it still works this way.

Still true.

[Fourtyfive]

10 hours ago, Smith said:

My biggest thing is that by going from a pistol to an SBR, I am now crippled on transporting, crossing state lines, vehicle carry, and carry ability with my current HCP. I prefer to keep them in pistol status and wait this thing out. I got used to the Uzi push/pull sling method before the brace and if necessary will go back to that method. 

I have other pistols without braces, in state just carry your stamp as well.

You can also file a form 20 which will allow you to take out of state for 365 days providing the item is allowed in the state traveling to.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Fourtyfive

[Moped]

Quite honestly, I hope most brace owners decide to ignore the "free SBR Licensing scheme", being foisted on them and tell the ATF to go f#$& themselves. If this brace ruling is allowed to stand, I think it will just a matter of time, before pistols with magazines forward of the trigger, will be placed under the NFA, just like they did the Street Sweeper back in the Clinton era.

We either win the ensuing lawsuit against this rule in the Supreme Court, or we see a further eroding of our 2A rights. 

But if you want to SBR your pistol, go right ahead. Me, I'd just take the damn thing off and put in the closet, for a time when it may be needed.