Pistol Brace Rule

[DJTC45]

I'll just say this, take the Brace off and just pay the $200 Tax. Remember "Free always come with a catch" so if I decide to turn my SP5 Pistol to an SBR on Form 1 then I'll skip their "Free Tax Stamp" and pay the fee. Just my opinion on this crappy subject, I still say you should be able to buy an SBR, or Suppressor directly from an FFL and pay your Tax Stamp Fee right then and there and as long as you pass the background check you should be able to leave with it along with a copy of were you paid the tax and then let ATF send you your stamp as long as you passed the background check. The system can be streamlined to be able to do that, just think of all the money they would make if it where just made that simple. Just my two cents on this subject.

[Alleycat72]

19 minutes ago, DJTC45 said:

I'll just say this, take the Brace off and just pay the $200 Tax. Remember "Free always come with a catch" so if I decide to turn my SP5 Pistol to an SBR on Form 1 then I'll skip their "Free Tax Stamp" and pay the fee. Just my opinion on this crappy subject, I still say you should be able to buy an SBR, or Suppressor directly from an FFL and pay your Tax Stamp Fee right then and there and as long as you pass the background check you should be able to leave with it along with a copy of were you paid the tax and then let ATF send you your stamp as long as you passed the background check. The system can be streamlined to be able to do that, just think of all the money they would make if it where just made that simple. Just my two cents on this subject.

The system should be removed all together. No NFA act. 4473 machineguns for all.

[RED333]

3 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

The system should be removed all together. No NFA act. 4473 machineguns for all.

With out the NFA there is no 4473 as the form came along in 1968.

[Alleycat72]

11 minutes ago, RED333 said:

With out the NFA there is no 4473 as the form came along in 1968.

Even better. Get rid of all of it. The 4473 would give the libs a reason to live so I thought I'd give them a bone. 

[RED333]

10 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

The 4473 would give the libs a reason to live so I thought I'd give them a bone. 

[Garufa]

The rule is scheduled to be published tomorrow, January 31st.

https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/2023-01001/factoring-criteria-for-firearms-with-attached-stabilizing-braces

Edited January 30, 2023 by Garufa

[Chucktshoes]

43 minutes ago, Garufa said:

The rule is scheduled to be published tomorrow, January 31st.

https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/2023-01001/factoring-criteria-for-firearms-with-attached-stabilizing-braces

[jeff43]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

The rule is scheduled to be published tomorrow, January 31st.

https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/2023-01001/factoring-criteria-for-firearms-with-attached-stabilizing-braces

Then what?

[Snaveba]

7 minutes ago, jeff43 said:

Then what?

Law suits

[Garufa]

9 minutes ago, jeff43 said:

Then what?

The rule effectively becomes “law” and the 120 day clock starts ticking.  If you want a tax free SBR then register and apply within that time frame, otherwise remove the brace.

[Garufa]

53 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Now that song is stuck in my head.  Thanks for that.  

[Chucktshoes]

13 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Now that song is stuck in my head.  Thanks for that.  

Happy to be of service.

[A.J. Holst]

Why am I reminded of this quote from Atlas Shrugged:

Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.

 

[crc4]

9 minutes ago, A.J. Holst said:

Why am I reminded of this quote from Atlas Shrugged:

Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.

 

Ayn Rand is not popular with progressives, socialists, Marxists, and SJWs. All the more reason to know her work.

[Snaveba]

Who is John Gault

[jeff43]

So , do y’all think this will become a law?I’ve heard the bump stock rule, law or whatever it was got overturned and is now legal. Is that true?

[Garufa]

11 minutes ago, jeff43 said:

So , do y’all think this will become a law?I’ve heard the bump stock rule, law or whatever it was got overturned and is now legal. Is that true?

When a federal agency publishes a ruling (regulation) based upon the power granted them by US Code (the laws actually passed by Congress) to interpret and enact regulations within the framework of said code, it becomes law.

The brace rule becomes law tomorrow until such time a court might stop it.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Garufa

[jeff43]

Thanks.

[Lumber_Jack]

Sorry for not reading this entire thread. But if I remove a brace and just go back to the old school AR pistol-style with a buffer tube, that’s considered compliance, yes? 

[Capbyrd]

5 hours ago, Lumber_Jack said:

Sorry for not reading this entire thread. But if I remove a brace and just go back to the old school AR pistol-style with a buffer tube, that’s considered compliance, yes? 

Kinda, possibly.   It’s based on the “surface area” of the end of the extension.   And I don’t know what their metric is there as I haven’t read the entire ruling. 

[Lumber_Jack]

2 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

Kinda, possibly.   It’s based on the “surface area” of the end of the extension.   And I don’t know what their metric is there as I haven’t read the entire ruling. 

so I guess I’m just gonna sbr it the old fashion way and be done. It’ll probably take 6 years for all the paperwork to clear 

[turkeydad]

4 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

Kinda, possibly.   It’s based on the “surface area” of the end of the extension.   And I don’t know what their metric is there as I haven’t read the entire ruling. 

I read it and they mentioned if it had to have a buffer tube to function then it could have one but they went on to say that just because it has to have one  doesn't mean it couldn't be determined to be an SBR. 

You know the standard double talk that would allow them levity to do whatever they want to do.

[JN01]

Since they are allowed to make up or change definitions at their whim, what's to stop them from declaring all AR pistols, braced or not, to be SBRs?

[DHF]

Transferring an AR Stabilizing Braced Pistol to an NFA Trust

Hopefully the upcoming lawsuits will make this all null and void but I thought I’d throw this out for your reading pleasure and consideration.  Not sure if I should have l=placed this in a new post but figured this was a good place to start.  Please correct any inaccuracy you notice.

If you are thinking of utilizing the window to register your AR pistol as an SBR and utilize an NFA Trust, it may not be that simple.  The NFA says on page 5 of their FAQ for Final Rule 2021-8F (item 12) that you can do so but that the firearm would have to be owned by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register (see below or link)

 Frequently Asked Questions for 2021R-08F (atf.gov)

William Kirk with Washington Gun Law addresses this in a video he posted.  Link is below starting at time he addresses the highlights of this. Entire video should be watched, If you are interested.

https://youtu.be/mTGfhG-kpVE?t=648

It looks like that if the firearm was not owned by the trust at the time the rule was published, you would have to submit your Form I and have it approved and then transfer it into your NFA Trust, which will require the $200 tax.

So, from what I can tell, if you had already had an NFA Trust in place and properly transferred the item into your trust before the rule was published properly (i.e. could prove it), you may have a chance of not having to transfer it to your trust later and pay for the $200 tax stamp to do so.

[willki]

But as I understand it, if the item was not SBR before then you could not put it in a trust.  In some video I watched recently they mentioned that you can only put NFA items into a firearms trust like that.  So the video I saw presented it as a catch-22. You have to have these "pistols" in a trust before they magically turn into rifles.  But there is no way to get "pistols" into a trust since they are not NFA items yet.  Maybe I misunderstood what they were saying.  All this trust information is very new to me. 

Many years ago, I had a lot of NFA items in an LLC and that made it easy to add people to the LLC and eventually it helped when selling them as I sold the entire LLC to a new buyer.