Pistol Brace Rule

[monkeylizard]

I thought Form 5 was for an unserviceable item. Isn't Form 4 to transfer to another person ($200 tax required)? I'm not an NFA aficionado so I can't say for sure.

I do know that you could set up a trust and transfer it to the trust (not sure if another $200 is required or not) and make her a responsible person on the trust. Then she has just as much legal access to it as you do both now and after your passing, hopefully many years from now.

The other option is that after your passing she can have it removed from the register and return it to a "normal" non-NFA item by notifying the ATF. Sample letter here: https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/blogs/nfa-gun-trust-atf-information-database-blog/atf-letter-requesting-removal-of-a-sbr-sbs-title-2-status That can take a few months for them to process the request and notify her the lower has been removed from the NFA registry. Then she'd either put a longer upper on it or sell the upper and lower separately.

 

[eRay]

3 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

I thought Form 5 was for an unserviceable item. Isn't Form 4 to transfer to another person ($200 tax required)? I'm not an NFA aficionado so I can't say for sure.

 

 

It has been several years since I had a Class 3 Dealers License but I believe the Form 5 was for tax free transfers, such as to a law enforcement agency or to a heir named in a will.

[monkeylizard]

Excellent. Good info.

[DJTC45]

Thanks guy's, I'll do some research and see what my options are, I really don't care either way personally, but God forbid something happened I'd hate for one of my nephews to get in trouble when I leave it to them.

[JohnSutton1980]

I follow all local, state, and federal laws. Always have and will always. I don't and won't change anything I do for "rules" or any other political whims that occur. I don't have any transformer items at all. I thought that technology was a ways off.  Starting to make me want to buy a bulldozer............

[Johnny Rotten]

NFA Handbook - Chapter 9 - Transfers of NFA Firearms (atf.gov)

 

[m16ty]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:45 PM, Danger Rane said:

Also remember, for those of us living in TN, SBRs and SBSs are no longer illegal according to the state. Unless you live in one of the liberal cities you don’t have any real concern about local, or state law enforcement enforcing the federal aspect….unless you are doing something else wrong. Similar to CA and CO in regards to drugs, and several states in regards to illegal immigration.

In theory you would be correct. Federal agents are everywhere in the State though, and some state or local LEOs will still report you to the feds, they won't "officially" report you, but they can call up the ATF just like any citizen can. 

All that being said, most (especially away from the big cities) state and local officers don't care what you have in the way of firearms, as long as you aren't doing something stupid with them.   

If you do decide to ignore an ATF ruling, I would either be very private about it, or go ahead and draw that line in the sand and prepare to defend the line, either though the judicial system or other means. 

[m16ty]

7 hours ago, JohnSutton1980 said:

  Starting to make me want to buy a bulldozer............

Too many people do that and the ATF will start regulating what "accessories" you can have on your bulldozers. You'll have to register your "assault bulldozer", and then another registration for the muffler (suppressor), and then will come a ban for fuel tanks that hold over 9 gallons, nobody needs over 9 gallons to push over a tree. 

[turkeydad]

So apparently when it hits the registry brace equiped pistols will be off the menu.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/pistol-brace-rule.html

[downtown]

How will one know when it's published in the Federal registry?

[turkeydad]

2 hours ago, downtown said:

How will one know when it's published in the Federal registry?

The registry is public so you can see by looking it up. But I'm sure there will be plenty of people letting everyone know when it's published. Or you can just see if braced pistols are still listed for sale.

[turkeydad]

One thing I'm trying to figure out. The rule change says there is no waived fee or amnesty  for braced shotguns like Shockwaves or Tac 14s. Does that mean they are a short Barrell shotgun right off the jump.? And if did pay to file would you have to wait for approval?

[Chucktshoes]

43 minutes ago, turkeydad said:

One thing I'm trying to figure out. The rule change says there is no waived fee or amnesty  for braced shotguns like Shockwaves or Tac 14s. Does that mean they are a short Barrell shotgun right off the jump.? And if did pay to file would you have to wait for approval?

Yes. If you have a braced shotgun and wish to remain within the law you need to remove the brace immediately. 
 

 

[turkeydad]

21 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Yes. If you have a braced shotgun and wish to remain within the law you need to remove the brace immediately. 
 

 

That's what I gathered too. As they so elequently stated since the forward grip on the pump clearly indicates it was never intended to be fired with one hand. So illegal when it hits the registry although they will wait 60 days before enforcement (by their own grace) which of course is worth nothing. As I have the letter saying the brace is ATF approved and a copy of the letter stating shouldering a brace is not a violation as well. 

[RC3]

Will this also apply to the non braceable buffer tubes? The round ones with that tiny layer of padding?

[Chucktshoes]

By my reading, that depends on if it needs the tube like an AR, or if it’s a non-functional extension. Less of an issue with the former. Very much an issue with the latter. 

[RC3]

2 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

By my reading, that depends on if it needs the tube like an AR, or if it’s a non-functional extension. Less of an issue with the former. Very much an issue with the latter. 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018622985?pid=546783

 

So this would be ok then?

[Worriedman]

A number of House members are reaching out to the new TN AG to get him to fight this under 10th Amendment. There may in fact b e legislation filed to require him to do so.

Per the W.V. v. EPA case SCOTUS ruled on last year, this specific issue of "rulemaking" subverting the legislature's job to make law will most likely be stopped at some point. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Worriedman

[Chucktshoes]

18 minutes ago, RC3 said:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018622985?pid=546783

 

So this would be ok then?

It has a better chance than not. I am not a lawyer, and I didn’t stay in a holiday inn last night, so take my opinions with a dump truck full of salt. I hesitate to say that ANYTHING is OK because of the mercurial nature of ATF enforcement policy. I do feel confident in saying that certain things are definitely not kosher. A slick pistol tube that doesn’t allow for locking on a stock doesn’t meet the “definite no” metric which is about as good as it gets at this point. 

[RC3]

6 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

It has a better chance than not. I am not a lawyer, and I didn’t stay in a holiday inn last night, so take my opinions with a dump truck full of salt. I hesitate to say that ANYTHING is OK because of the mercurial nature of ATF enforcement policy. I do feel confident in saying that certain things are definitely not kosher. A slick pistol tube that doesn’t allow for locking on a stock doesn’t meet the “definite no” metric which is about as good as it gets at this point. 

Screw it then. I'm just going to get rid of the barrel and brace. 

[Garufa]

Now that the official new regulatory law is days away defining what makes a “pistol” a short-barreled rifle, what will the new definition of a pistol be?  And when will that be changed if it’s not being changed already as part of this?

The AR and AK platforms were never designed as pistols. 

[RC3]

17 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Now that the official new regulatory law is days away defining what makes a “pistol” a short-barreled rifle, what will the new definition of a pistol be?  And when will that be changed if it’s not being changed already as part of this?

The AR and AK platforms were never designed as pistols. 

Yeah. It was a fun run, I'm just going to get rid of it instead. 

[Snaveba]

So did the ATF put anything in this new rule to compensate the citizens who don’t want to own a SBR?  Or did they basically rob us all of $$$. 

[willki]

3 hours ago, RC3 said:

Yeah. It was a fun run, I'm just going to get rid of it instead. 

but if you sell it now, don't you have to sell it as an NFA item?  Therefore the new buyer will have to pay $200 and wait for approval?

[RC3]

8 minutes ago, willki said:

but if you sell it now, don't you have to sell it as an NFA item?  Therefore the new buyer will have to pay $200 and wait for approval?

The ruling final date hasn't taken effect yet.