Had my first negetive encounter with LEO in Hendersonville ..

[Fallguy]

Why are you getting an asschewing? I've been pulled over, mentioned the ones with my permit, I'll recap, 4 total, 2 road blocks, and 1 for speeding, 1 for tail light and I have NEVER got an asschewing, NEVER, not once. It appears, by your words, that you are, with my experience in getting pulled over, I have to come to the conclusion that the LEO is not the problem, it's you.

Fortunately it doesn't sound like it has happened to you, but "lectures" do happen on traffic stops or other interactions with LEOs. Sometimes without any real provocation from the stopped party. I have seen it when I used to ride along.

The agency my brother and SIL work for actually has a "no lecture" policy.

[Guest db99wj]

Fortunately it doesn't sound like it has happened to you, but "lectures" do happen on traffic stops or other interactions with LEOs. Sometimes without any real provocation from the stopped party. I have seen it when I used to ride along.

The agency my brother and SIL work for actually has a "no lecture" policy.

Good point, but some people seem to bring it more than others...

I have had lectures when pulled over, I had a nissan truck, 87 model, back when I was in high school, was in a baseball park parking lot, gravel, doing donuts, with my date, cop gave me a long lecture that night....I deserved it.. There have been some other times, when I was a lot younger that I got lectures, but I deserved it, usually not for being disrespectful, but for being a stupid kid.

I grew up in Dyersburg, small town. Live in Memphis, big town, been pulled over in a few places in between!

[Fallguy]

Good point, but some people seem to bring it more than others...

I have had lectures when pulled over, I had a nissan truck, 87 model, back when I was in high school, was in a baseball park parking lot, gravel, doing donuts, with my date, cop gave me a long lecture that night....I deserved it.. There have been some other times, when I was a lot younger that I got lectures, but I deserved it, usually not for being disrespectful, but for being a stupid kid.

I grew up in Dyersburg, small town. Live in Memphis, big town, been pulled over in a few places in between!

LOL...well I admit the only ones I ever got from LEOs were when I was young as well. Better them than dad!!!!

[E4 No More]

There are many officers who think their authority entitles them to lecture someone. Heck, judges do the same thing. I've never seen a law granting authority to include a provision to lecture anyone.

[Guest db99wj]

LOL...well I admit the only ones I ever got from LEOs were when I was young as well. Better them than dad!!!!

My dad has had to get up and come pick me up;) and that "silent lecture" was the worst thing in my life!!!

[Guest LieutenantDan67]

This is starting to get a little

Relax guys...it's just a forum discussion....these are always the kind of chats that go a little better in person than over the 'webz'.

[Guest JLowe]

How about I make this perfectly clear for you.

I'm walking down Galatin Rd in East Nashville. Some "good citizen" calls in a MWAG and you respond and see me. You investigate and demand my HCP, I provide it. Everything checks out. That should be the end of the contact.

But, apprently you will start asking me where I'm going, what I'm doing and all sorts of other questions that the law doesn't require me to answer. I may say nothing or I may tell you that it is none of your business.

No, but think what you will.

I am not required to answer any querstion you, as a LEO, pose to me. If I am carrying, I must provide my HCP on demand, if I'm driving, I must provide DL, proof of insurance, and registration. If I'm just walking around (unarmed) I just have to identify myself, verbally. Beyond that, I (or anyone else) has the right to remain silent (even if not arrested).

Using the typical tactics, of bad or lazy LEOs, of browbeating someone, threatening them with arrest on trumped up charges, or even cuffing them to "force them to volunteer" more information IS a violation of their rights.

One of the most ignorant statements that I've seen on here.

I am neither bad or lazy, I am a highly trained professional and I know more about law than you do about whacking your weeny.

LEOs walk a very fine line, but the instant anyone of them crosses the line (even by a fraction of a nanometer) they need to be legally slapped silly. There is no excuse for any LEO to violate the rights of anyone.

I actually agree with you on that one.

[Guest Ggun]

My dad has had to get up and come pick me up;) and that "silent lecture" was the worst thing in my life!!!

Yea, me too, because I always knew the end of the silent lecture was a belt.

[eehlert]

It is true, there is no law that contains a provision for lectures......BUT, a necessary component to Law Enforcement is EDUCATION. TN state law gives the discretion to officers on MOST violations to issue a citation, effect an arrest or none of the above. Its the officer's choice. Traffic Stops and other encounters are very emotional for most people. Recieveing a citation adds to that trauma and in many cases, getting a citation is blocked out of the mind for the time being, because it is viewed as simply a financial burden. Officers lecture to get the point across that certain behavior (e.g. speeding) needs to change. Issuing the citation alone doesn't do the job becuase that is largely a financial concern on the violator's part.

So, if you are roadside and recieving a lecture, its probably not a lecture, its probably the LEO explaining what law you have broken, because you told him/her "that I have no idea why you pulled me over," when in the back of your mind, you know exactly why and thus, what he/she is explaining to you becomes a lecture becuase you don't want to hear what he/she has to say, becuase you already know you screwed up.

My personal policy: If I am going to issue a citation or make an arrest = no lecture, BUT if I am not going to issue a citation or make an arrest = you are gonna get one heck of a lecture. Which would you rather have?

[E4 No More]

There is a difference - in my mind at least - between a lecture and an explanation. I've used the latter when I was a policeman, and have seen the former abused.

I can see that some would think an explanation is a lecture, and to those I say get over it. You have the right to be fully informed of what you are charged.

[Fallguy]

My personal policy: If I am going to issue a citation or make an arrest = no lecture, BUT if I am not going to issue a citation or make an arrest = you are gonna get one heck of a lecture. Which would you rather have?

One or the other, but not both...

There is a difference - in my mind at least - between a lecture and an explanation. I've used the latter when I was a policeman, and have seen the former abused.

Yep

I can see that some would think an explanation is a lecture, and to those I say get over it. You have the right to be fully informed of what you are charged.

Yep again...

[GLOCKMEISTER]

19 PAGES....

[Fallguy]

Better than 10-15 seperate threads....

[E4 No More]

19 PAGES....

That's nothing. On a car forum I go to I have a thread that is now on page 986, and growing!

[jughead]

guess i will put in my 2 cents. been pulled over once in my life for something i didnt do. found out weeks later what happened. i did get out of it. only complaint i have with officers in my later years is i wish SOMEONE would inform all of them that open carry with a permit is legal in tenn. in the last 10 years i have had run-ins with 3. one state trooper made me put my weapon under the seat of my truck.

Edited April 9, 2009 by jughead
DIDNT FINISH HIT WRONG BUTTON

[Guest justme]

Never said that exercising you rights in a respectful manner mad you an assh*le. I said that an uncooperative attitude makes people an assh*le. We are just trying to do our jobs and ignorant attempts at "exercising my rights" just make things harder and extends the time of contact.

So because I refuse to cooperate and answer questions some questions that are not germane to the reason for the stop--that automatically makes me an assh*le? I could say the same thing about LE who starts asking questions that have no bearing on the reason for the stop...For example, while it is your business if I have a permit while carrying--it isn't your business where I am going, or what I do when I get there as long as I abide by the law while I am there/going there/returning from there....

Your correct, the law does not require you to answer questions that would cause you to bear witness against yourself and help to convict you of a crime you have committed. But failure to comply with lawful orders and answer questions that are identifiers, is not a "right" and are required to be answered.

Case law, or the T.C.A to back this up? I have seen no where that I am required to even identify myself to a LEO unless you have PC or RAS to believe I am about to commit, or am committing a crime. Yes, it is proper to follow "lawful" orders--such as "get out", or "turn around"...but please show me the T.C.A that requires me to answer any questions when I am not suspected of committing a crime.

I don't have to answer LE questions, and AFAIK--and please show me the law if I am wrong--there is NO "stop and identify" statute in this state, which means you can't just roll up and demand my "papers" UNLESS you have RAS that I am about to commit a crime, and even then I am only required to give you my name, address, and telephone number and ID...you can't demand my social security number, you can't detain me for an extended period of time and you can't just search me because you might want to....

Now, if there is a "stop and identify" statute-please point to it, and by all means--please provide the T.C.A or case law to back up that I HAVE to answer your "idenfier" questions...

[Oh Shoot]

19 PAGES....

Only 5 for me.

- OS

[TGO David]

Several folks participating in this thread need to simmer down before the moderators intervene.

Thanks.

[DaveTN]

My policy was that I either chewed azz (lectured, educated, whatever silly name you want to put on it) or wrote a ticket, but I didn’t do both. If I lectured you, I let you go. At any time during the lecture you could stop me and I could start writing.

No “authority†for a cop to chew your azz out? You have got to be kidding me.

[Guest Scottech]

I always...always always carried concealed. Even in steamy hot weather.

It may seem like LEO harassment to you but they're only doing their job.

I'd be apologetic.

[Guest justme]

I always...always always carried concealed. Even in steamy hot weather.

And that is your right entirely. It is an individual decision as to whether you OC or CC...the issue for most is access in time of emergency...try drawing from beneath a shirt--that extra couple of seconds or so could cost a person their life if it came down to it.

It may seem like LEO harassment to you but they're only doing their job.

many times it is harassment. And no--it often goes beyond "just doing my job"...that has been taken to the extreme in nearly every case I can think of from history.

I'd be apologetic.

I wouldn't...if I felt the treatment was unjustified I would file a complaint, and if my civil rights were violated I would seek legal counsel to find out whether I had a case...I would also get the entire conversation on tape, FOIA the 911 tapes/call logs if the call came into 911 about a MWAG before they suddenly got taped over or lost, and if the cruiser had a dash cam and was on at the time I would have it too through counsel. And if a legitimate violation of my rights occurred I would go so far as to file a complaint with the civil rights division of the FBI and write my Congressman...but the last thing I would do is be apologetic.

They are your rights--what good are they if you have to exercise them in a way that makes everyone feel good? That is the problem in this country now--we are too concerned about not offending others and about being politically correct...The Constitution does not give you the privilege or the right to be "offended"...but the rights it does give you should be inviolable.

[Punisher84]

And that is your right entirely. It is an individual decision as to whether you OC or CC...the issue for most is access in time of emergency...try drawing from beneath a shirt--that extra couple of seconds or so could cost a person their life if it came down to it.

That's a simple solution. Don't conceal so deep you can't get to it. Wear a t-shirt over it or wear a button up to cover it.

Those short sleeve bowling type shirts are awesome for concealment.

[Guest Astra900]

That's a simple solution. Don't conceal so deep you can't get to it. Wear a t-shirt over it or wear a button up to cover it.

Those short sleeve bowling type shirts are awesome for concealment.

Absolutely, I wear one every time I leave home, I don't care if it's 100 degrees out, better sweat a bit than be hassled by officer Fife.

[Guest justme]

Absolutely, I wear one every time I leave home, I don't care if it's 100 degrees out, better sweat a bit than be hassled by officer Fife.

but if what they do actually violates your rights--that is what lawyers and federal courts are for. even if you cover up, you may print which will give you away anyway. Get it on tape, get the dash cam if it exists, get the call logs/911 recordings and go from there...it is their job to check permit status, it isn't their job to harass us, or intimidate us, or to detain us without cause or for a prolonged period of time or to search us or our things without proper justification.

it is just a personal decision that each person will make--but if you have to cover up to avoid offending someone--then how is it a right, because you can only exercise it in a way that makes everyone feel happy and lovey inside.

a right isn't a right if you have to beg for it or cover it up in order to exercise it.

[Fallguy]

It's very possiable...I might would go so far as to say likely that he didn't mean "hassle" to indicate any wrong doing by a LEO. But rather to simply mean not being stopped and asked to show his HCP in the first place. Which I think we all can agree is less likely (no...it's not an absolute) if you carry concealed instead of open.

As I have said before I am for OC and think those that want to should. But I have also said one reason I don't is because I do not want to explain to sheepel why I carry, why OC is legal and/or I don't want to draw attention to myself from others, including LEOs.

For the most part those that OC don't mind educating the public, the attention they may draw and they should not mind their HCP status being checked (Not talking about any harassment). But...those actions I just mentioned could be called a "hassle" by those who do not OC.