Had my first negetive encounter with LEO in Hendersonville ..

[Guest Tn.Mitch]

I was comming out of the Dollars store on New shackle island Rd,this evening about 5:00pm,after checking out, was met at the door by 2 Hendersonville cops,snd 1 park officer.Before I came in the store,which I checked first,and was not marked as a no gun zone.I had a IWB holster anyway,but was hot and had taken off my top shirt, still had a t=shirt on,which shouldnt matter anyway,being this is a oipen carry state.

This Park officer,werring a yellow polo shirt,and shorts,see me come in,gets on the radio abd call the big boys(Hendersonville cops).So they stop me at door,ask me what im doing,I say shopping,he says with a uncovered gun,I said I didnt have to cover it,i have a permit...he says,its in your left back pocket right? I say yes,he says how are we going to get it out.I say you can take it out if you want.all this time, people are looking at me like im a theif that gought caught stealing,or breaking the law somehow,they have me in the middle of a triangle,3 against 1, 1 of my hands is holding my sack of items I purchaced,So the park patrol pulled my wallet out,hands it to me,then I hand them my HCP,while the young rookie calls it in,the other older,still lots younger than me,That officer,me asks me what schooll I went to,and what kind of stuff are they teaching us,he says,I know its leagal,but people get scared when they see civiallians wearing guns,im thinking to myself,well,thats there problem ,not mine, this officer IMO was clearly to, me one of those officers that think,no one should carry guns but cops.

Then it really got crazy,the rookie asked me if I was in any gangs,I told him I was too old for gangs,the only one I was in was my NRA card which was showing.Then he ask me my addy,which was on the permit,my SS# and my phone #,im wondering if this guy wants to date me or what???Then after all that they let me go,as im walking to my suv,Im hearing the park patrol.laughing telling these cops how as I came in he saw me and called them, for back up, Clearly sucking up to them,whishing he was a cop instead of a park patrol,they all thought it was cute but me,as soon as I got home,I called the store and talked to the mananger who knows me,sees,me in the store often and for years,said he didnt have anything do with it,it was the park patrol guy,The park patrol guy was telling me he use to be in a big gang called the army,now he in a gangfcalled cops,The park patrol sounded like a wannabee cop to me all that unnecessary garbage,trying to be a big man,where im a law abbiding citizen,trying to do some shoping and minding my own bussinness,while these guys are having a circle jerk around me, Joe Tax Payer, Thern after talking to the store manager,I called the police satation,but like everywhere else,hours from 8 till 5:00 pm so I left a message explaining my frustration about the way I was treated and the questions about gangs,phone numbers andf Social surcuity numbers, this cop can go open a credit card in my name now.They should of asked to see my permit....looked,called it in maybe, then thats then end, im a law abbiding citizen,and wont be treated without the respect I gave and deserve,until I give them a reason to act differently....ole Philip down at the Goodlesville Gun store said there were some LEO up here like that and...I just met some.....

[Garufa]

Sounds like you got hassled by some young Rambo's.

OC and/or being made does sometimes have consequences. I hate that it happened to you.

If you feel strongly enough about it make some calls Monday morning.

Talk to the Chief or whatever the honcho calls himself there.

[Jasongar8]

Did you get any of their names? I guy I went to school with is a Hendersonville cop now, could have been him as he is fairly new there. I have always heard that Hendersonville had a bunch of ass hats working for them, and you have just proved it. You handled yourself better than I think I would have.

-Jason G

[oldogy]

My main anger would be toward the park patrol guy since he was the one who obviously did not know the law or knowing it wanted to play real cop. My call would be to his boss to suggest a little education for him. My next call would then be to the local chief of police and inform him that I, as a law abiding, tax paying citizen did not appreciate the situation handling by his men. Hey, I have a permit, I am legal, why the harassment!!!!!!!!!

I would never partially open carry as you described for the exact reasons you encountered. Either holstered in plain view or conceled

oldogy

Edited March 28, 2009 by oldogy
wording

[Guest Sixguns]

You know that really is bad to hear since, everyone who has a HCP, has gone through a lot of trouble and hassle to be better citizens and take care of our own safety. It is ashamed that these officers treated you so badly, and I do not believe is probably representative of most of the LEOs in TN.

However, it sounds like you handled yourself very well, and by your cool head and calm reaction, only helps all of us. If you had caused a big scene and acted like an a$$, then they would have said, "look there goes one of those hot headed HCP holders who thinks he's special.â€

So good jobs and thanks for handling yourself so well.

[Ninja9]

Sounds like some jerks with nothing better to do I have had my share of self-serving cops back in my skateboarding days. But i think the majority are still good guys.

So they said you had an "uncovered gun"? But you had your tshirt over it?

[TGO David]

Sounds like a fun day. I took the liberty of trying to break your post up into paragraphs just to make it a little easier to read, though.

[Guest ryan02]

I bet I know one that was involved. Sounds like him atleast..

[Warbird]

1. Did the park officer have a badge exposed or on his shirt or was his shirt a plain shirt with no LEO distinction?

2. Did the park officer have on a gun? Funny how I have heard LEO's n plain clothes tell HCP holders they shouldn't carry or they'll scare folks all the while they are plain clothes themselves.

3. I think I would make sure to stay on top of this including the park officer's bosses. There really is no excuse for this behavior. They had no cause what so ever to detain you and treat you like that.

The fact of the matter is, and any honest cop will tell you this, there are a lot of asshats in LEO. Because of the nature of the job it will naturally draw in power hungry jerks. Good cops have to spend a career with such folks. No mater what you do you can't screen them all out. Some departments who have jerks at the top seek out folks like that too. I don't know this department so I have no opinion on it.

And if you shoot much at all you probably shoot more than any of those cops you were detained by tonight. My cops who refer to everybody else as citizens as though they are somehow better trained and safer, are in general often pathetic shots who shoot only the minimum a year to stay qualified. Again those who care enough and take their 'profession' seriously have to put up with these types. I feel for those guys.

This crap has happened in the past in other parts of the stae. Each time I am aware of the cop was punished in some way and sent back to training. That is what these guys need.

[Guest db99wj]

I would make sure that a "formal" complaint was filed, in other words, written, with the park ranger's superiors and the LEO agency.

[Guest Tn.Mitch]

Sounds like a fun day. I took the liberty of trying to break your post up into paragraphs just to make it a little easier to read, though.

Thanks for the help.feel free to do so anytime,as I stated,I do the best I can...Thanks Again....

[Guest Tn.Mitch]

1. Did the park officer have a badge exposed or on his shirt or was his shirt a plain shirt with no LEO distinction?

2. Did the park officer have on a gun? Funny how I have heard LEO's n plain clothes tell HCP holders they shouldn't carry or they'll scare folks all the while they are plain clothes themselves.

3. I think I would make sure to stay on top of this including the park officer's bosses. There really is no excuse for this behavior. They had no cause what so ever to detain you and treat you like that.

The fact of the matter is, and any honest cop will tell you this, there are a lot of asshats in LEO. Because of the nature of the job it will naturally draw in power hungry jerks. Good cops have to spend a career with such folks. No mater what you do you can't screen them all out. Some departments who have jerks at the top seek out folks like that too. I don't know this department so I have no opinion on it.

And if you shoot much at all you probably shoot more than any of those cops you were detained by tonight. My cops who refer to everybody else as citizens as though they are somehow better trained and safer, are in general often pathetic shots who shoot only the minimum a year to stay qualified. Again those who care enough and take their 'profession' seriously have to put up with these types. I feel for those guys.

This crap has happened in the past in other parts of the stae. Each time I am aware of the cop was punished in some way and sent back to training. That is what these guys need.

The park cop just had a leo insigna thing sewn on the sleves,and no gun,hes the one who started it all,he never approached me,until the LEOs had me at the door,he came up behind me as they were in front,and I cant believe I didnt even look at threre name badges.....

[Fallguy]

My main anger would be toward the park patrol guy since he was the one who obviously did not know the law or knowing it wanted to play real cop. My call would be to his boss to suggest a little education for him. My next call would then be to the local chief of police and inform him that I, as a law abiding, tax paying citizen did not appreciate the situation handling by his men. Hey, I have a permit, I am legal, why the harassment!!!!!!!!!

I would never partially open carry as you described for the exact reasons you encountered. Either holstered in plain view or conceled

oldogy

I agree...other than the smart remark of "what are they teaching you" and "it scares the public" sounds like the LEOs were doing their job. They had a report of a person with a gun....which is illegal in TN if you don't have a permit. You showed your permit and was allowed to go.

Wonder why the park patrol didn't confront you. Could have been as easy as, "Sir, do you have a carry permit?" ... "Yes" (show it to him) ... "Thank you sir" and that be the end of it.

I agree in states where OC is legal without a permit..LE really has not reason to stop a person just because they are OCing, but in TN since a permit is required, one should expect to have to show their HCP when OCing.

I think you handled it very well.

[Smith]

Park police are police officers. In fact they are a special designation within metro police. They go to the same academy, same POST certification, etc. He didn't have to "play up to" the "big boys". That being said it sounded like all 3 were equally bored this particular evening.

In Hendersonville the Park Police are a separate entity, but are still POST certified, same authority etc.

Edited March 28, 2009 by Smith

[EMTRN]

I hate hearing these kind of stories. I can't imagine anyone on either of the dept's I have worked for doing this. I guess West Tennessee has some good things about it.

[Guest shadow12]

As far as the questions that were asked of you, DOB, SSN and phone number, those type questions. The officer had to do a report of who had a gun and why. Our paperwork used to ask for maiden name, and still asks for place of birth. I don't ask those, but I ain't no rookie.

They most likely didn't want to messs with this after they found that you had a permit, but they were called. Surrounding you with offcers is smart, it's called tactics, had I been one of those officers, I would have done the same.

They told you that open carry scares people and you shouldn't do it. That is because it is true. I have had the call before about a "man with a gun". Always it's been some little old lady or chicken snot liberal that called it in. But now I have to detain you long enough to figure out what is going on, I will have backup, and I will aske you the personal info questions. Because now I have to do report, cause you thought it was cool to OC. I don't OC, for the reasons stated above, keep the damn thing covered.

[Fallguy]

As far as the questions that were asked of you, DOB, SSN and phone number, those type questions. The officer had to do a report of who had a gun and why. Our paperwork used to ask for maiden name, and still asks for place of birth. I don't ask those, but I ain't no rookie.

They most likely didn't want to messs with this after they found that you had a permit, but they were called. Surrounding you with offcers is smart, it's called tactics, had I been one of those officers, I would have done the same.

They told you that open carry scares people and you shouldn't do it. That is because it is true. I have had the call before about a "man with a gun". Always it's been some little old lady or chicken snot liberal that called it in. But now I have to detain you long enough to figure out what is going on, I will have backup, and I will aske you the personal info questions. Because now I have to do report, cause you thought it was cool to OC. I don't OC, for the reasons stated above, keep the damn thing covered.

[Guest Tn.Mitch]

I understand that LEO have the right to ask to see a permit for the gun,im saying no scared litttle old lady called,it was the hero park patrol,that called to make a big scene in front of the store....to ask me if I was in a gang,and such ro me was disrepectfull to a grey haired 53 year old man trying to do some poor mans shopping.I wasent in that store before confronted, more than 5 minuites.Im like most men,when I go in a store,I know what I want I get it ,pay for it,and im gone,1 minuite sooner and the park patrol would have to had to confront the big bad old man me himself(me).If it had been a sheep call,I wouldnt have been as upset,and it was the personal questions,that offened me,yes I coopreated fully with them,what else could I do....>??Im old enough to know better,not too give them a problem,it would only hurt me ,not them.They have to do there thing,but I was trittaly within my rights tio be uncovered,and there harrasment isnt going to change that.The rest of the sheep out there treat them like Gods so much,that some of them have come to believe it,well im nopt a but kisser,I show respect for all athority figures,but I know my rights too.The whole thing was blown way outta perportation,when a simple showing of my permit,having them call it in if they think I made it myself,and not all the attacks on the school,that I took for my HCP class.Im a citizen,I know my limits,minding my bussiness,I jumpped through the hoops to get this permit,im not some gang banger,with a gun hanging outta his pocket.I think the LEO should have more respect for us the law abbiding guys for a change,instead of grouping everyone with a gun into the same catagory..If I had had short hair,a suit and tie on,this would have gone down tottaly different,or not at all,but im in Geans ,t-shirt,a working man,its a different world for the people who pay the bills,than for the people who,sit behind a desk and shuffle papers for a pay check.I deserve just as much recpect ,as the guy with the suit,im not a second class citizen, im a regular american working man,just like all of you that pay the LEO to treat us the same,unless we give them a reason not to......enough said,I have no hard feelings,I guess,I just expected more out of our officers here in town.This aint the hood man, its Hendersonville Tn.not East Nashville projects,...people move here to get away from all that crime and gangs,not to be treated as such themselfes..

[Mike.357]

I would not have answered when the gang question was asked. I might have asked him to define a gang. I would not be comfortable giving my SS#. There might have been an argument to get that out of me. Address is on the permit, phone number in the phone book.

Sam are we required by law to give phone number and SS#?

The best thing in this post is not to carry the permit where accessing it causes the holder to reach anywhere near the handgun.

[Guest hickok]

I don't ever carry open, but since it's legal, I think I'd be writing every official in Hendersonville about this, including the police chief, of course. I'd post on every Internet forum I could think of, as you did here, and I might copy and past all the comments in a letter to the police chief.

Most cops are good guys, but "Billy Bad Ass" cops deserve all the negative publicity they can get. Unfortunately, there are a few cops who don't go into LE to serve the public; they do it to make up for a small "member." These are few and far between, but even one or two give an entire city or county a bad reputation.

We're fortunate here in Cheatham County; we generally get people with lots of common sense. I've worked with them and can attest to that. Not so sure about all the Ashland City police, but our county guys and gals are okay.

Anyway, make it your mission to give them publicity. I think some nerdy old guy named Bill Shakespeare said that "The pen is mightier than the sword."

[deerslayer]

I would not be comfortable giving my SS#. There might have been an argument to get that out of me.

+1

They would not have gotten mine.

[Guest HexHead]

I don't ever carry open, but since it's legal, I think I'd be writing every official in Hendersonville about this, including the police chief, of course. I'd post on every Internet forum I could think of, as you did here, and I might copy and past all the comments in a letter to the police chief.

I'd add a letter to the Mayor to that list. I'm not sure I would have answered their questions beyond "everything you need is on my permit."

I'd also request they call their Sergeant if I felt I was being harassed.

[Guest Ggun]

I would not have answered when the gang question was asked. I might have asked him to define a gang. I would not be comfortable giving my SS#. There might have been an argument to get that out of me. Address is on the permit, phone number in the phone book.

Sam are we required by law to give phone number and SS#?

The best thing in this post is not to carry the permit where accessing it causes the holder to reach anywhere near the handgun.

Good point, Mike. The scenario I read most about is where the handgun is at 4:00 and the wallet is rear pocket, when the carryer goes to pull out the wallet at the register, sweeps back the cover garment, shows the weapon, and TSHTF.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Hendersonville has the worst reputation in this area dealing with permit holders, but this can all be avoided if you carry concealed. Mitch's Instructor should have stressed the possibility of these type of situations occuring when one open carrys.

[Ruprect]

To toss some ideas around;

There are very few officers that would approach an armed individual without backup, so figure two officers at minimum.

You know you are a law abiding citizen and should be treated as such until shown to be otherwise, but do you think the officer knows who you are or your intentions? Assuming that you're a law abiding citizen can get an officer or officers killed. THAT IS A FACT.

I think your underestimating how well handled your situation was by the officers, though not perfect. You could have been laid out spread eagle on the concrete at gunpoint and handcuffed until the "situation" was resolved. But you weren't.

The questions you were asked about you date of birth, address, phone number, SS# ect. are all normal. I know this is hard to believe, but a great many people don't update their addressed when they move. Another hard to believe; people lie. A lot. I have personally seen DLs and IDs that have Joe Blow citizen's information, but ****head used his photo and did some laminating (holographs can be hard to see on the IDs) to get a new ID. The officer asking those questions can check your answers to the ID and other information to make sure everything adds up.

Here is the big one; When officers are called to the scene for ANYTHING, ANY REASON AT ALL no matter how BS it sounds they are obligated, both by duty and morally to see that you are not violating the law and more importantly not a danger to the public at large.

How would you feel if the officers had gotten the call, came to the scene assumed the guy with a handgun was a law abiding citizen (cause he looked normal), didn't ask for a permit(because only good guys open carry), didn't do a records check(because people with suspended or revoked permits always turn them in and people with warrants just jump into the police car to go to jail) and left after complementing his weapons choice only to have guy go nuts with a stolen gun, no permit and a long history of violence and kill YOUR family. Be thankful he was doing his job.

No experience is going to be perfect, some cops are *******s(so are some doctors, construction workers and postal employees ect.), people should mind their own damn business unless something is wrong and you have every right to carry however in this state with a permit, but know that you will be the center of attention from time to time.

Sorry for the long post,

I'm going to Guns and Leather.