shot gun questions

[Guest sarah]

I would like to get a shot gun for protection and would like to ask some opinions and advice -

I've never shot one but I think I should get one to keep at home for protection. I was looking at some guns at walmart and don't know if they are good (by good I mean, good quality, won't tear up easily, whatever else I should consider).

I know this is a pretty open-ended wide question, but could you give some advice and opinions on this. Also, please know that I'm new to shot guns and so any "intro" helps or "beginners" advice would be very welcome

I know this may sound silly but I do kind of like the idea of having a good gun at home that makes that "click click" noise. I know the sound doesn't make a gun better but honestly, most people know that sound from movies and such and I think it couldn't hurt in dangerous situations.

I know that may sound naive or stupid, but I'm just being honest. I think a "click click" sounds good and it that's not enough a big "boom" whether or not you hit them - surely it would help them run AWAY from the sound.

I would prefer to not spend more money than necessary but I do not want a cheap, no-good gun. I realize many people trade guns and buy and trade for fun but I just want to go ahead and buy a good, decent gun.

I consider this a long term investment.

If guns were like cars, I am looking for like a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry...not a big hummer suv thing. Well, maybe a Jeep Cherokee, but NOT a Marine Corp Hummer thing. I would prefer a normal gun.

If you can give me brand names that would be good also. Anything to give me at least a "framework" as I go shopping.

Thank you in advance. I appreciate your help and input.

many thanks,

sarah

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

12g Remington 870 or Mossberg 550.

I would recommend going to the range and shooting one first so you can understand how the shot will pattern, or spread out. There is a common misconception that if you aim a shotgun in the general area of your target you will hit it without fail. The spread is likely less than you would think.

[Guest onefastgun45]

Mossberg 500...12G OO Buck...takes care of anything from ants to amtrack!

[BigPoppa]

You're right, Sarah....this is a wide open area of discussion.

There are a range of issues you'll need to narrow down as you go - manufacturer, pump or semi-auto, gauge, size of the gun's stock and its length of pull (are you short or tall ?), and what kind of ammunition you will stoke the gun with for Home Defense.

First of all, Remington and Mossberg are far and away the most popular Home Defense shotgun makers. The Remington 870 is the "Coke" of the HD shotgun world and the Mossberg 500/590 is the "Pepsi". Both are reliable, and will do the job you need. They are very similar - the primary difference being the location of the safety.

Other, less pricy guns you could consider are Charles Daly, and Maverick (made by Mossberg).

Generally, semi-automatic shotguns offer less recoil, but may have trouble cycling some loads. Semi's are also more finicky about maintenance and cleaning. Pump guns, on the other hand, will push you a little more but will usually run any ammunition you put in it.

The size of your gun's stock and it's length of pull are crucial. If your gun doesn't fit you, it will hurt you and you won't practice with it. If you're shorter of stature, you may want to consider youth stocks.

Both Remington and Mossberg make 20 gauge, downsized shotguns for youth and small female shooters. These are capable of performing well in a Home Defense role.

As far as ammunition.........? Much of that depends on if you live on a farm or in an apartment building. 00 buck is considered the "gold standard" of 12 gauge HD ammunition, but again there are a tremendous amount of variables, and this is an area where there is less than a unanimous opinion.

This should get you started. If you're near Middle Tennessee, we're offering a class called General Defensive Shotgun on April 19. That might be of interest to you.

Hope this helps............good luck.

[Guest nj.piney]

and welcome to tgo

[Punisher84]

You're right, Sarah....this is a wide open area of discussion.

There are a range of issues you'll need to narrow down as you go - manufacturer, pump or semi-auto, gauge, size of the gun's stock and its length of pull (are you short or tall ?), and what kind of ammunition you will stoke the gun with for Home Defense.

First of all, Remington and Mossberg are far and away the most popular Home Defense shotgun makers. The Remington 870 is the "Coke" of the HD shotgun world and the Mossberg 500/590 is the "Pepsi". Both are reliable, and will do the job you need. They are very similar - the primary difference being the location of the safety.

Other, less pricy guns you could consider are Charles Daly, and Maverick (made by Mossberg).

Generally, semi-automatic shotguns offer less recoil, but may have trouble cycling some loads. Semi's are also more finicky about maintenance and cleaning. Pump guns, on the other hand, will push you a little more but will usually run any ammunition you put in it.

The size of your gun's stock and it's length of pull are crucial. If your gun doesn't fit you, it will hurt you and you won't practice with it. If you're shorter of stature, you may want to consider youth stocks.

Both Remington and Mossberg make 20 gauge, downsized shotguns for youth and small female shooters. These are capable of performing well in a Home Defense role.

As far as ammunition.........? Much of that depends on if you live on a farm or in an apartment building. 00 buck is considered the "gold standard" of 12 gauge HD ammunition, but again there are a tremendous amount of variables, and this is an area where there is less than a unanimous opinion.

This should get you started. If you're near Middle Tennessee, we're offering a class called General Defensive Shotgun on April 19. That might be of interest to you.

Hope this helps............good luck.

Best. Answer. Ever.

Sarah, best of luck to you and heed BigPoppa's advice about shooting one first. I've seen ladies that will cry after shooting a 12gauge and I've seen tiny ladies blow through 25 rounds and ask for more. Just find what fits you and is comfortable. Most quality HD shotguns can be had for less than 400 dollars.

[Seaslug]

Best. Answer. Ever.

Sarah, best of luck to you and heed BigPoppa's advice about shooting one first. I've seen ladies that will cry after shooting a 12gauge and I've seen tiny ladies blow through 25 rounds and ask for more. Just find what fits you and is comfortable. Most quality HD shotguns can be had for less than 400 dollars.

+1 to that. Nicely done, Poppa.

Also, the aforementioned Remingtons and Mossbergs can typically be found at Wal-Mart, so it's likely that you've already seen at least one version of each. The price is right too, although my Dad actually got an 870 at Dick's for $219 after rebate last year. The only drawback to buying shotguns at the big-box stores is that you're probably going to end up with at least a 28" barrel. This is not ideal for HD. An 18" barrel is going to be much easier to fit through doorways and to swing around in tight spaces, and you may have to visit your local gunshop to find one (something I'd recommend doing anyway). I have a tricked-out 870 Tactical Spec Ops 18" myself, and I wouldn't trade it for anything for HD.

[Mark@Sea]

Sarah, Walmart also carries the NEF Pardner pump shotgun, which is a cheaper chinese copy of the 870. It'll be in the 200 dollar range, and will work fine. If you are recoil sensitive, then the 16 or 20 gauge might suit you better than the 12.

If you do get the partner, you won't feel so bad when you (or someone else) cuts the barrel down to 18.5 inches, and then cuts the buttstock to make it more comfortable for you to shoot. Overall length of the gun must be 26 inches, which should not be a problem. When you shoulder the gun, your nose should rest against the thumb of your gripping hand, and your elbow should not be over extended. You should also have some angle left in the other elbow with the slide forward.

It is harder to explain than it is to demonstrate.

I do second the motion to attend the shotgun course, as well.

[GaryXD]

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_7-round.asp

[PackinMama]

Welcome to the forum Sarah!

The guys are pretty much on the money as far as brands go. You can't go wrong with a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500. I like the Mossbergs for home defense because of the location of the safety. It's on the top of the receiver and you can operate it with your thumb. It can easily be operated in the dark also. I tell new shotgun shooters with that type of safety this rule for operating their safety, it's very easy to remember: FORWARD FIRE and RED READY. There is a visible red dot that you can see when the safety is in the 'off' position. In the dark, all you have to remember is "FORWARD FIRE." The safety on the Remington is in front of the trigger gaurd and it's a bit harder, especially for someone new to shotguns, to operate.

I would also consider, especially if you are a small framed woman, going with a 20 gauge. They have much less kick and will still get the job done very efficiently. Load it with 00 Buckshot and you're good to go. If you decide to go with a 12 gauge, they make Low Recoil Buckshot and Slugs. I load my home defense shotgun with alternating 00 Buck and Slugs in the Low Recoil variety.

If you want a 12 gauge, and are looking for the "Honda Accord" of shotguns.....you might consider spending a bit more money and getting a Mossverg 590A1.....it's the same basic design as the 500 but has a 9 shot capacity and is built much tougher. Whichever model you decide to get, I would definitely go with the "defense" model....it will have a parkerized finish, a higher shell capacity, shorter barrel, usually synthetic stock and forend, sling mounts, etc.

Take a look around on Gunbroker at the various models. If you can, go to a large gun shop or two and look at the home defense shotguns. Walmart usually just carries the hunting type shotguns. You can really get some good deals on Gunbroker too if you take your time looking.

Good luck with your search and feel free to pm me with any questions you may have. Sometimes it's nice to get a womens perspective on things.....and shotguns are definitely something I know well! I've been shooting them for over 30 years!

[Guest hustle]

I have a mossberg 500 and love it. If you get the one with the optional pistol grip, I wouldn't even consider putting it on. If you live around the Roane County area, I'd be glad to let you try it.

[Mike]

I just want to step in and dispose of the "Shotgun Myth".

1. Racking the action will not immediately cause the BG to defecate and leave the premises.

2. You still have to aim. Buckshot will not open up and spray an area like people imagine shotguns do. At 15-20 ft(pretty much max in-home range) it opens up to about a 1.5-3" group. at 40ft it only opens up to about 6-7".

3. Over-penetration. Don't use birdshot in an attempt to minimize wall penetration. You also minimize flesh penetration. birdshot will only penetrate about 1". Much less than is required to do the damage that needs to be done.

Everyone here has covered most of the other topics. Please ask any questions you may have, Sarah. There is no such thing as a stupid question, and there are more than enough people on here that would be more than happy to answer.

I imagine if you would like to get some trigger time in before you buy to see what you like and don't like we can help you out there as well.

-Mike

[Fadex]

I think everything has been covered but I just want to reinforce the importance of having the gun fit you. I used to skppt skeet/trap/sporting clays and there is a big difference between the felt recoil of a properly fitted gun and one that does not fit.

As an example I have a 20ga H&R single shot that is way too small for me and it hurts to shoot it...I never take it out of the safe...while my 12ga over/unders or Beretta AL390 goes with me to the field or range every time.

[PackinMama]

I just want to step in and dispose of the "Shotgun Myth".

1. Racking the action will not immediately cause the BG to defecate and leave the premises.

Depends on the bad guy. Anyone here would have to admit that the sound of a pump shotgun racking a round will at the very least get your immediate attention!

2. You still have to aim. Buckshot will not open up and spray an area like people imagine shotguns do. At 15-20 ft(pretty much max in-home range) it opens up to about a 1.5-3" group. at 40ft it only opens up to about 6-7".

True. You definitely have to aim. A laser and flashlight mounted on your home defense shotgun is a really good idea.

3. Over-penetration. Don't use birdshot in an attempt to minimize wall penetration. You also minimize flesh penetration. birdshot will only penetrate about 1". Much less than is required to do the damage that needs to be done.

Yes, BUT.......If you live in an apartment with thin walls, or in a dwelling with others besides yourself that could be in different rooms (especially if you have children), over-penetration can definitely be a concern. I'd rather have #4 birdshot in my gun and not shoot through the wall into my kids room, if in fact that is an issue. Believe me, #4 birdshot is better than accidently shooting an innocent, and can still be effective in stopping a bad guy, especially if you aim for the face!

Everyone here has covered most of the other topics. Please ask any questions you may have, Sarah. There is no such thing as a stupid question, and there are more than enough people on here that would be more than happy to answer.

I imagine if you would like to get some trigger time in before you buy to see what you like and don't like we can help you out there as well.

Absolutely!

-Mike

See my comments in blue above.

[Guest Grout]

PackinMama speaks the truth.Don't let the "macho" talk fool you.Bird shot is deadly at close range.

[Punisher84]

PackinMama speaks the truth.Don't let the "macho" talk fool you.Bird shot is deadly at close range.

Yea I gotta agree with her on everything except the racking thing. #4 birdshot from a shotgun inside of 25 feet is not going to be a pleasant experience for the person it is hitting. This is the old argument of...

"Oh it's just a .380"

"Yea well you stand here and let me shoot you center mass with it."

"Oh nevermind man."

The racking of a shotgun is a well known sound and it may very well have a psychological effect on an intruder or it may not. The problem is the Hollywood effect or the macho cool like chambering a round before you go fight the bad guys or racking the slide on the shotgun before you storm the house. There is just no realistic reason to do it in a defensive situation.

You're announcing your general direction, the fact that you have a gun, etc. If you expect that sound to send criminals fleeing in terror and it doesn't you better be able to start pumping rounds into them immediately after.

[Punisher84]

double post whoopsie

[Rightwinger]

Maybe she will come back and read some of this.

One post and has not logged on since then.

[PackinMama]

I agree with you Punisher. Like you said, even though the racking sound of the shotgun potentially has the ability to have a phychological effect on the BG, it is definitely smarter to keep a round chambered and ready to fire.

[Punisher84]

I agree with you Punisher. Like you said, even though the racking sound of the shotgun potentially has the ability to have a phychological effect on the BG, it is definitely smarter to keep a round chambered and ready to fire.

I actually keep mine full tube without a round in so all I have to do is rack it, but they'll hear a boom a nanosecond after the racking lol

[nightrunner]

i agree with most of what has been said.

we dont know what size you are physically, but if you are small-framed, i would suggest a 20ga. youth version, remington makes a 20ga. with a youth stock in home defense disguise (synthetic stock, 18" barrel, full-length mag tube)

in 20ga. you can still get buckshot and slugs just like 12ga.

also you might consider a recoil-reducing stock, like from KNOXX, either with or without the pistol grip in the shoulder stock

im sure if you post up where you are in TN there is somebody nearby that will let you try out their shotgun before you buy one that doesnt fit you

[Guest sarah]

wow - this is a great list of info -

first of all - thank you all so much, so many different things, a good list of guns and info, I'm need to print this out and mark it up with notes when I go shopping

second - I laughed at "rightwinger" that commented about me coming back and reading - LOL - yes, I'm back now and I read all the posts

this is the deal - I was up in knoxville the other night and I went into Gander Mountain, it is a big "guy store" with tons of stuff including guns -

anyway, the guy was really nice and he showed me some things (I didn't shoot any of them) but he showed me and I kind of think these 2 are good ones (based on what little I know)

1. Benelli Nova 20ga 24" bbl $369

2. Of Mossberg 500A 12 ga 18" bbl $349

I noticed that "packinmama" mentioned the "mossberg" was a good honda accord type of gun, but I'm not sure if you meant just that model 590A1 or mossberg in general? (I'm thinking "mossberg" = "of mossberg" ? don't know what the "of" designates?)

also - no one mentioned "benelli nova" so I'm thinking that must not be a very good brand?

The guy that helped me explained

12 gauge is bigger than 20 gauge so it is harder to shoot,

also he said to stick with 18" if possible and maybe 24" was too big

I FOR SURE want "pump action" because I like that sound - I know some of you say it's not scary but I think it is - I know it may not scare some of you but for sure that is what a gun sounds like so I think it would be good to have that sound because I do think that sound would scare the bad guy

He was really great BUT - he did not say anything about "birdshot" so I'm not sure what your posts are about on that, I'm thinking that is the type of bullet to use (or not to use?) -

I have to confess I have not looked at the guns at walmart so I don't know if they have these at better prices there or not...but I was shocked at HOW MANY gander mountain had - they had dozens and dozens of guns.

thank you all so much, this is a great site with lots of helpful responses and I appreciate it. thanks for helping.

blessings,

sarah

[Guest sarah]

one more thing - I've just gone back and was re-reading this -

I'm a little more confused about the sizing -

I thought I understood that 20 gauge and 12 gauge were the 2 sizes and that 12 was bigger than 20. so what is birdshot? I mean, it's a bullet right? so don't know have to buy a bullet that fits the gun -

so when you are talking about birdshot are you talking about a 12 or a 20 OR are you talking about a bullet?

what are you talking about a bullet or a gun (12 or 20)?

[Punisher84]

1. Benelli Nova 20ga 24" bbl $369

2. Of Mossberg 500A 12 ga 18" bbl $349

also he said to stick with 18" if possible and maybe 24" was too big

I FOR SURE want "pump action" because I like that sound - I know some of you say it's not scary but I think it is - I know it may not scare some of you but for sure that is what a gun sounds like so I think it would be good to have that sound because I do think that sound would scare the bad guy

He was really great BUT - he did not say anything about "birdshot" so I'm not sure what your posts are about on that, I'm thinking that is the type of bullet to use (or not to use?) -

That's correct 24" barrel is too long for home defense. It's 6 inches of barrel you don't need.

As far as the pump sound...it CAN be a deterrent, but don't rely on it. It may scare them off (probably will), but if it doesn't you HAVE to be prepared to fire that weapon in defense of your life.

Where this comes from is hearing several people say "Well I could just keep it near my bed unloaded and the sound will scare away a burglar!" Don't believe Hollywood junk or some over eager salesman. It's a cool sound, but it is not a magic sound that automatically makes criminals run in fear.

Birdshot is a type of load for a shotgun. There is #4 shot, 00buck, slugs, etc These are all types of ammo for shotguns. Shotguns don't really fire a "bullet" they fire pellets loaded into a shotshell.

It's a ton of information to soak up, but you'll pick it up quick.

[Punisher84]

one more thing - I've just gone back and was re-reading this -

I'm a little more confused about the sizing -

I thought I understood that 20 gauge and 12 gauge were the 2 sizes and that 12 was bigger than 20. so what is birdshot? I mean, it's a bullet right? so don't know have to buy a bullet that fits the gun -

so when you are talking about birdshot are you talking about a 12 or a 20 OR are you talking about a bullet?

what are you talking about a bullet or a gun (12 or 20)?

12 and 20 are gauges. That's the size of the chamber of the shotgun.

You can buy 12 gauge slugs, 12 gauge buckshot, 12 gauge birdshot, etc Same for 20 gauge. It's just different number of pellets and powder loaded into the shotshell of that particular gauge.