What Most People Who Carry Fail to Realize

[crc4]

As we hear more about those who legally carry firearms and use them in self-defense, almost all discussions of shootings from someone legally carrying a firearm lead to these facts.

Many people carry guns legally.

Fewer people have a license to carry permit.

Damn few that carry guns have the slightest idea of what the law says about self-defense, have ever given a cursory examination as to what constitutes actionable self-defense, and, should they use their gun, what to say to police after the shooting, how to present themselves to police, and what's going to legally happen to them afterward.

That's scary.

Do yourself and your family a favor. Stay out of prison. Educate yourself before you go to court for a shooting you're involved in.

[gregintenn]

Share you advice with us if you’d be so kind.

[DHF]

I find it amazing as well how many I people I talk to in our community that spend a large amount of time and money on firearms, accessories and even a lot of training but haven't spent any time on educating themselves on the legality of carrying and self-defense law.  The fudd lore is very strong on these subjects.  I often even receive scoffs from people when I bring it up. 

Andrew Branca's book is cheap as heck and a great place to start.  https://lawofselfdefense.com and on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@Lawofselfdefense

The following two cover self-defense and firearms law and are great resources as well:

William Kirk at Washington Gun Law.  https://www.youtube.com/@WashingtonGunLaw

Richard Hayes and Emily Taylor at the Armed Attorneys are another great reference.  https://www.youtube.com/@ArmedAttorneys

 

 

[Guest]

I am also a member of a Maryland shooting forum and where they JUST got some relief to their non-existent CCW laws, all of them are busy as hell, filling each other up with absolute BS about their interpretation of their new laws, best holsters, ultimate carry pieces, practical engagement tactics, etc, etc. Mix this up with their closest (literally subconscious) liberal mentality and it is entertaining as heck. Bless their hearts, they’ll figure it out I guess.

[crc4]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Share you advice with us if you’d be so kind.

Not to be flippant, but I don't have enough time to do something that can so easily be done by an interested party. There are many good sources.

Here's a great source. Then if you're interested you can take it from there.

Massad Ayoob. Watch his videos, read his books, listen to what he's telling you. He's a 40 year expert. I know of no one better for you to start with for the education you and every gun carrier needs.

It requires study, lots of it. A permit class teaches you almost nothing. If you think it's too much time to study, get involved in a self defense shooting. Then you'll get an education that you'll pay for dearly.

I hope you'll take the time to do it. It will make you wiser and better informed.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by crc4

[crc4]

Here's some ideas that are believed to be right, but are wrong.
1. Drag 'em in the house so as to make it legal.
2. Ain't no jury gonna convict me.
3. I'll keep a throwaway gun with me just in case.
4. The lawyer who did my will is good enough for me.
5. Let 'em sue. I'll beat it in court (with the lawyer who did my will).
6. I ain't gonna talk to the police until my attorney arrives.
7. Everybody will see my shooting was justified.
8. My home insurance will cover me.
9. I'm ain't going to waste my time learning about legalities.

And on it goes.

[Snaveba]

I really hope (and think) that most of the members I know on this list are not nearly that clueless as to entertain any of those options. 

[crc4]

1 minute ago, Snaveba said:

I really hope (and think) that most of the members I know on this list are not nearly that clueless as to entertain any of those options. 

You're an optimist.

Even good people do dumb things. With good people they make big errors out of fear and out of ignorance. "Ignorance" is not used derisively here. We are all ignorant about many things. But in carrying a gun and when to use it in self-defense and the aftermath of using it is an ignorance that can be overcome if the person wants to put in the effort.

Just like we train, shoot, practice, and learn all we can about our firearms, equally important is to learn about the legalities of self defense. That takes work.

But as a gun may save your life, so too can learning the whys, wherefores, and consequences of using that gun. 

The good thing is that knowledge is readily available.

[gregintenn]

I guess my statement was poorly worded. Ayoob  would be a good place to start. I didn’t really expect a full dissertation. Thanks for the response.

[crc4]

14 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I guess my statement was poorly worded. Ayoob  would be a good place to start. I didn’t really expect a full dissertation. Thanks for the response.

If I might recommend a great book to read by Mas, it's "Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self-Defense, 2nd edition Paperback." This is the new edition that comes out this week. I read the first edition and can honestly say that if you read nothing else, you'll have read the best one volume book ever on the self-defense issues you should know. ( I plan on ordering it myself this week as it has very current information.)

Deadly Force 2nd ed. - Massad Ayoob.

Thanks for your interest. 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by crc4

[JN01]

For a short and sweet booklet that hits the main points: Hayes_SDLaw.pdf (armedcitizensnetwork.org)

[crc4]

48 minutes ago, JN01 said:

For a short and sweet booklet that hits the main points: Hayes_SDLaw.pdf (armedcitizensnetwork.org)

I'm a member of ACLDN. They educate the gun owner.

[Trekbike]

4 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I guess my statement was poorly worded. Ayoob  would be a good place to start. 

I took Massad's "Armed Citizen Rules of Engagement" class back in the summer and learned tons of valuable information.   It's frightening to learn just how much the prosecution will twist and manipulate the truth against a defendant in a court room even in a justified shooting.   Highly recommended IMO.    

https://massadayoobgroup.com/mag-20-classroom/

 

[crc4]

3 minutes ago, Trekbike said:

I took Massad's "Armed Citizen Rules of Engagement" class back in the summer and learned tons of valuable information.   It's frightening to learn just how much the prosecution will twist and manipulate the truth against a defendant in a court room even in a justified shooting.   Highly recommended IMO.    

https://massadayoobgroup.com/mag-20-classroom/

 

Congratulations! That could well turn out to be the best education of your life. Now you see why I am passionate about educating gun owners about this.

Thanks.

[Alleycat72]

The number 1 thing to realize is that your family will be in a better financial position if you are shot and killed than if you successfully defend yourself. 

[crc4]

3 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

The number 1 thing to realize is that your family will be in a better financial position if you are shot and killed than if you successfully defend yourself. 

I won't be though. That's the reason I acquired self-defense coverage. I can live and not put my family in the poor house.

[Snaveba]

10 hours ago, crc4 said:

You're an optimist

Actually I’m the third glass

[billyblazes]

I so wish there were TN specific reads such as these based on Florida law as well as Federal statutes.

Home index page for Florida Firearms gun law book (floridafirearmslaw.com)

Florida Gun Law: Armed And Educated (Third Edition): 9780578456485: Amazon.com: Books

[crc4]

14 minutes ago, billyblazes said:

I so wish there were TN specific reads such as these based on Florida law as well as Federal statutes.

Home index page for Florida Firearms gun law book (floridafirearmslaw.com)

Florida Gun Law: Armed And Educated (Third Edition): 9780578456485: Amazon.com: Books

See if this helps. Excellent site for gun laws and related stuff.

Handgunlaw.us link for the Un ited States

[Alleycat72]

On 12/11/2022 at 5:38 PM, crc4 said:

I won't be though. That's the reason I acquired self-defense coverage. I can live and not put my family in the poor house.

LOL

 

[m16ty]

I probably spend as much time or more researching the legal aspects of carrying as I do firearm training. I think both are equally important. You have to train yourself how to act in a certain situation, as much so as you do training to use a firearm.  

[Sunfish]

#5 on the list only happens when the shooting was deemed not to be self defense.  TN Law now prevents civil action. One of our own was instrumental in this legislation  

[crc4]

2 hours ago, Sunfish said:

#5 on the list only happens when the shooting was deemed not to be self defense.  TN Law now prevents civil action. One of our own was instrumental in this legislation  

Yes. But it certainly applies in states even where a case of self-defense was determined to be justified that civil actions can proceed. Lawyers love these type of cases.

Due to only requiring a 51% preponderance of the evidence rather that the higher (say 97%) for a guilty verdict in a criminal trial, it's more likely than not you will be going to civil court and much more likely to be found at fault.

It's easier to come out clean from a criminal trial than a civil one.

That's the reason  to have a 1,000,000 personal liability policy (most often attached to homeowner's policy) and some type of self-defense 'insurance' policy that offers civil trial protection.

Considering what you have to lose either way, it's cheap compared to a civil judgement and civil and criminal defense costs.

Edited December 16, 2022 by crc4

[crc4]

7 hours ago, m16ty said:

I probably spend as much time or more researching the legal aspects of carrying as I do firearm training. I think both are equally important. You have to train yourself how to act in a certain situation, as much so as you do training to use a firearm.  

That's great! It's far better, easier, and cheaper to stay out of trouble than get out of it.

[221 Fireball]

I have followed and read Massad for years. I read his book "In the Gravest Extreme" cover to cover and passed it to my lawyer friend who admitted he needed further education on such things.

Massad has quite a bit on PDF, but crc4 ... thanks ... you've inspired me to order Massad's latest book. That will be done this week.

I actually saw and met Massad at Bianchi Cup years ago, he was the banquet guest speaker. I always read his after action reviews "The Ayoob Files" in American Handgunner. He knows his stuff.