Blackhawk Serpa CQC Holster?

[Guest gcrookston]

I'm thinking about complimenting my shoulder rig for my Sig 226/220 with one of these paddle holsters on days I'm wear coats and suits (ya, I'm hurdling into the technology of the 1990's at a rapid pace). Thoughts? Experiences?

[dunndw]

I'd rather have leather than plastic...something like a concealed carry paddle (CCP) from Galco

IMO the Serpa on a paddle juts out too car to be easily concealed even by a coat...on the belt is isn't a bad, but...meh

[Daniel]

It has a spacer that is about a 1/4 of an inch that can be removed to make it a closer fit.

[Defender]

I use one of those daily to carry my Glock 30. I love it. It is secure until I push that button...then it slides right out in my hand...wish they made one of those for some of my other guns...

[Mike]

Serpas are bad news.....

On a the draw you can actually pull the trigger and shoot yourself. A lady lost 9 inches of femur due to that retention button.

-Mike

[BigPoppa]

Serpas are bad news.....

On a the draw you can actually pull the trigger and shoot yourself. A lady lost 9 inches of femur due to that retention button.

-Mike

GLOCKS enjoy the same reputation......the gun just "goes off" and somebody has a case of GLOCK leg.

Trigger discipline is key no matter what model or type of holster. I have had Serpas for two different pistols for a long time now. I haven't shot my leg off yet. I keep my finger off the trigger when I draw and holster.

Edited March 27, 2009 by BigPoppa

[TGO David]

The lady in question clearly got her finger into the trigger guard after it cleared the holster. You could do that with any holster if you don't keep your finger indexed on the slide and away from the trigger during draw or reholstering.

[Guest gcrookston]

I've heard they are trouble with Glocks and recalled for corrective measures for that pistol. I can't seem to find an issue with them with Sigs. The one I played with was almost natural. Index finger falls right on the release. I don't understand how someone with a Sig could shoot themselves with this holster. But then, there is a lot of stuff that happens around me every day that I don't understand...

[Guest gcrookston]

The lady in question clearly got her finger into the trigger guard after it cleared the holster. You could do that with any holster if you don't keep your finger indexed on the slide and away from the trigger during draw or reholstering.

David, ya, that's right. I guess. I was trained to draw with my finger indexed against the slide above the trigger, perhaps this is why playing with this holster seems so natural to me, as my finger immediately rests upon the holster's release button.

[Mike]

Under stress she pressed the button and continued pressure until she came in contact with the trigger.

Not saying you will shoot yourself if you use this holster.

Just saying it's happened before...

Edited March 27, 2009 by Mike

[BigPoppa]

Those nylon, "one size fits 12 different pistols", holsters that collapse each time the gun is removed worry me A LOT more than Serpas do.

[EMTRN]

A lady lost 9 inches of femur due to that retention button.

-Mike

Wow, 9 inches? Is there documentation on this ortho wonder? I highly doubt this.

[TGO David]

I can see where if she pressed the release as if it were a button (with her finger tip) how she could have transitioned into stabbing the trigger also. Again, it can happen with any holster. The SERPA design is a pretty natural, instinctive one if you're used to indexing your finger properly as you draw.

Back to the original topic, as someone else stated, the SERPA holster rides closer to your body when you use the belt mounting point rather than the paddle. The paddle definitely juts the holster out a bit.

[Mike]

Wow, 9 inches? Is there documentation on this ortho wonder?

My mistake, 4" of femur...

She was as much to blame as the holster, But it just goes to show what could happen.

Not that it will. But it could.

As always, training and equipment familiarity lessen the chance of an accident.

Yes. I had a student shoot herself through the femur because of the IMHO damn dangerous ergonomics.

Shattered 4" of bone and required two "surgical nails" and about 18 months to heal. Lucky for her it was

- on a range

- with professional help (EMT, SWAT) available on site

- near a hospital with extensive gunshot wound experience

Why dangerous ergonomics? During the standard draw stroke it is impossible to avoid sweeping your leg (unless you assume a very awkward sideways bend). This makes keeping the trigger finger OFF the trigger of paramount importance. Grabbing a gun with only the trigger finger straight and the other fingers bent is definitely not a natural motion. This should not be made even more unnatural by requiring the trigger finger to PRESS a release button on the holster, return to EXTEND during the draw and come back to PRESS on the trigger.

Analysis of the events leading up to the shooting of self identified the following contributing circumstances:

- third day of training (statistically the most accident prone day for physical activity)

- right after lunch (statistically the least awake part of the normal waking day)

- unfamiliar equipment (her BF had been using this "great new fangled holster" the last two days)

- competitive stress (she was on line for a Wyatt Protocol drill with her BF and a SWAT guy)

- ergonomics

Slow motion action replay:

- the drill is explained and demonstrated

- the first three students (see above) get on line

- the drill is initiated by a command from the instructor

- the other students draw and fire on the target

- she can't get the gun out

- she remembers to "press the release button"

- the gun is released

- her trigger finger remains in "PRESS" mode during the draw

- the trigger and finger clear the top of the holster (muzzle still inside holster)

- trigger finger slaps the trigger causing the gun to discharge

- bullet penetrates the holster from inside, jeans, thigh muscle, femur, jeans and strikes the rubber padding of the floor (it is later retrieved from the range)

- she gives out a shriek of pain

- she begins to fall forwards and turns around to land on her backside

- rescue operations begin immediately (911 call, clear obstacles, secure weapons, prepare to stem blood flow if necessary)

http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/5095.page Edited March 27, 2009 by Mike

[deerslayer]

I personally witnessed a very alarming ND with a Springfield XD and a Blackhawk Serpa. Nobody rants about finger-off-the-trigger-til-it-clears-the-holster like I do, BUT the Serpa, IMO, increases the chances of an ND. Any holster that requires pressure from the shooter's trigger finger inward toward the holster with such close proximity to the trigger is bad ju-ju. This guy ripped a hole in his pantsleg about 12" long, missing his leg by what had to be less than 1/4", and blew a hole in the ground 3" from his foot. His lack of trigger finger discipline was to blame for sure, but I feel that the holster fueled the danger. One lucky SOB.

[robin48]

Serpas are bad news.....

On a the draw you can actually pull the trigger and shoot yourself. A lady lost 9 inches of femur due to that retention button.

-Mike

Practice, practice, practice

[Warbird]

I personally witnessed a very alarming ND with a Springfield XD and a Blackhawk Serpa. Nobody rants about finger-off-the-trigger-til-it-clears-the-holster like I do, BUT the Serpa, IMO, increases the chances of an ND. Any holster that requires pressure from the shooter's trigger finger inward toward the holster with such close proximity to the trigger is bad ju-ju. This guy ripped a hole in his pantsleg about 12" long, missing his leg by what had to be less than 1/4", and blew a hole in the ground 3" from his foot. His lack of trigger finger discipline was to blame for sure, but I feel that the holster fueled the danger. One lucky SOB.

While I agree with this statement, I will also go back to the original question and say the Serpa is a lousy choice for a suit. I wear suits quite often with my handgun. I have tried several options, but I prefer the OWB leather in a nice high ride so that it sits high up on your side. They are not the most comfortable thing to use and button the suit, but neither in shoulder for that. I just don't button my suits. But you never see the holster or gun with the suit jacket on and it is comfortable. I have both a Mitch Rosen and a Don Hume that both work well for this.

As for the Serpa I will also add regarding the model with the push button release, I have witnessed a person who had some dirt or other small matter get itself into the mechanism of that button. Any foreign object has the potential. Anyway, he could not get that button to release and that would not come out of there. At the time I witnessed this I had several remark to me that they had seen it before. For me that is the only time I have seen it. Still, that was enough for me.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Warbird

[Ropin4gold]

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=45333&highlight=serpa

[Punisher84]

I'm always amazed at the amount of operators in Iraq and Afghanistan, countless soldiers and Marines, and LE officers that have no issue with the Blackhawk rigs, but they are deemed dangerous by civilian instructors because some idiot couldn't keep their booger hook off the bang switch.

Wait...what's that sound? Oh nevermind, it's just the excuse police.

[Guest truthsayer]

I spent a good amount of time training with Serpas for my Glock and my wheelies. These days, I usually carry in a JIT Slide or a leather IWB, but I trust my Serpas. FWIW.

[Punisher84]

I would like to report that about 6 of us used Serpa holsters today with 1911s, glocks, and an XD for several complicated drills and no one shot anything but the target.

[willis68]

Question: on the Serpa the lock release it it on the bottom or top? what I mean is where you press to release it is it closer to the slide or trigger? I am thinking of ordering a couple of these

[Punisher84]

I'm not 100 percent sure I understand the question, but the lock release is on the side of the holster. The mechanism that catches is inside and it catches on the trigger guard of the firearm.

[Guest bkelm18]

Wait...what's that sound? Oh nevermind, it's just the excuse police.

I bet they get paid more than $8/hr....

My friend uses a Blackhawk with the release button. I have tried it, personally I didn't feel comfortable with it but like anything, it takes practice to get it down right.

[willis68]

I'm not 100 percent sure I understand the question, but the lock release is on the side of the holster. The mechanism that catches is inside and it catches on the trigger guard of the firearm.

on this picture http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/images/bh_serpa_19_jpg.jpg where the release is do you press it on the end that is closer to the grip or the end that is closer to the slide? I have never used one. I hope you can understand what I am asking. Think of it as a rocker switch, it looks to me like it can be pressed on either side of it. If you press the end closer to the slide it is further away from the trigger and I thing safer?

Edited April 5, 2009 by willis68