Question for the Bolt Gun Experts

[Cevans]

I just recently purchased a Savage Arms 110 PCS 300 acc blackout pistol. I have ran approx 100 rounds through it and it has ran flawlessly......but today, see pics below. When we went to fire the gun, it fired and grey smoke came out of the bolt area which it never did before and it was really loud and we were running suppressed with a Dead Air Sandman S. When I went to eject the round, it was stuck inside the bolt. I removed the bolt and pulled the round out and the little squarish piece fell out.....Thinking the bolt is broken. Is this something that will have to go back to Savage for repairs, or would they be able to send me parts to repair, the chamber appears to be fine... And what would have caused that, I was thinking it was way too hot a round and just blew that piece off of the bolt. Let me know your thoughts. After this happened, my son in law chambered another round and it fired fine, but again would not eject the round. I had to remove the bolt and pull the round out of the bolt...I was hoping some of you bolt action experts would give your opinion as this is my first bolt gun.

Thanks 

Chuck

[DWARREN123]

Extractor blew off. May be a "HOT" round or something wrong with bolt/chamber.

I would contact Savage Arms and see what they say. I do think Savage needs to check it out.

Just my opinion and worth every penny you paid for it!

[Omega]

That looks like some serious pressure sign, possibly the infamous powder position detonation.    Did the previous round sound right, and did it hit the target?

[RED333]

Are these reloads? If yes Savage might not cover it under warr.

That is the extractor, there is a spring and ball missing. I would take the complete rifle to a gun smith to have it checked out.

7 hours ago, Omega said:

That looks like some serious pressure sign, possibly the infamous powder position detonation.

Yep

[jpx2rk]

IF the gun was built on the Savage 110 action, you can buy the parts needed to rebuild just the bolt, such as the ejector and related parts, bolt head, etc.  BUT you need to know what caused the damage first, otherwise you are not going to have a safe firearm.    

[gregintenn]

Easy fix, but that rifle about blew up! Could have been a barrel obstruction, bad ammo, or something else possibly. I’d want to find out why this happened before shooting it again.

[Cevans]

The round previous to this one was bunny fart quiet, this round was much louder. Almost sounded unsupressed. These were Ammo inc ammo that I purchased from PSA, so far they have been reliable. Seems this one was just a hot round, you can see in the first pic how the primer blew completely out.  Did a little reading and it appears I will just need the spring and ball for the ejector, but will definitely have a competent gunsmith check it out for sure, just to be on the safe side...My son in law did send one round after this and it was smooth and quiet, but obviously did not eject, the chamber and inside of the pistol show no apparent damage, but will definitely feel better after a gunsmith verifies.

Thanks as usual for all the info

[RED333]

4 hours ago, Cevans said:

but will definitely feel better after a gunsmith verifies.

A little money for a lot of peace of mind.

[Garufa]

8 hours ago, Cevans said:

The round previous to this one was bunny fart quiet, this round was much louder. Almost sounded unsupressed. These were Ammo inc ammo that I purchased from PSA, so far they have been reliable. Seems this one was just a hot round, you can see in the first pic how the primer blew completely out.

I would be in contact with Ammo Inc. requesting satisfaction.

[Cevans]

I took it today to drop off at the gunsmith, gonna have him bless it to send more rounds down the pipe and just going to have him repair the bolt. After looking at videos, it seems super simple to do, but lately I have been crunched for time, so gonna have the pro do the repair.

[derf]

You got lucky. You pulled the trigger on a grenade. I would bet good money that the previous round never made it out of the barrel. The next round made it out of the barrel with the previous round. That’s a ton of pressure and the gun gods were looking after you. I’ve shot Savage rifles for over 30 years and can tell you from experience they use to be ugly but they have always been built like a tank. 
 

Never, never, never fire a gun after you hear a light report in a shot. It normally means that the barrel is obstructed. im thankful that no one was injured. 

[Snaveba]

Well, when shooting subsonic suppressed, I would think a squib round (if that was the issue) might be hard to notice. 

[Cevans]

Previous round definitely made it out of the barrel, fresh target and sighting it in, hole in target. The reason it was quite was that it was running suppressed and 300 blackout is very quiet when suppressed, so the light report was normal for running suppressed. In his initial inspection, the gunsmith believes it was an overpressure round and it appears the gun is okay except for the missing extractor pieces. Either way, we did get lucky that no one was hurt, but it was a situation that nobody saw coming, no real way to look at a round and tell if its gonna be overpressure and this was factory new ammo. I have reached out the the manufacturer about the round, maybe I will hear back from them soon.

As always, thanks for all the input

Chuck

[RED333]

Well that is good news, About the only way you would be able to tell if a round is overcharged is to weigh every one, however I’ve seen case weight variations that would drive you nuts.

[scatman]

56 minutes ago, RED333 said:

Well that is good news, About the only way you would be able to tell if a round is overcharged is to weigh every one, however I’ve seen case weight variations that would drive you nuts.

Don't forget case lube residue, projectile variations, and primer compounds all make a difference in weights. I've had some projectiles weigh two grains off spec. Albeit this is a much rarer problem but still one nonetheless that makes weighing factory ammo a headache because who really wants to pull each round apart?

[Gnarlytoes]

Usually, sub-sonic ammo that will function a semi-auto will be super-sonic from a bolt gun. Sub-sonic 300 blackout for a bolt gun is generally loaded with smaller charges of faster powders versus loading subs for a semi-auto such as an AR. Usually magnum pistol powder instead of fast burning rifle powder. Just like loading pistol rounds, it would be very easy to get a double charge and not realize it. Also, some powders are much more position sensitive than others at low case volume. If you are sure the previous round was not a squib, then I bet one of these options was the case.

[Cevans]

I understand what you are saying, but seems most places, the 300 blackout comes in two varieties, supersonic and subsonic. The only exception I have dealt with is discreet ballistics. They do have option in 300 blackout for barrel length. But I haven't seen any 300 blackout ammo with one load for AR and another load for a bolt gun. Where would one go to find those specifically for a bolt gun or would you have to reload to create your own loads to get that specific.

The previous round was definitely not a squib round, it definitely went downrange and hit the target. The previous round was quiet because we were running suppressed with a Dead Air Sandman S. With both my AR pistol and the bolt gun we are discussing, 300 blackout is very quiet. Seems the bolt gun is a wee bit quieter, but it doesn't have the AR action you can hear.

Im gonna have to look into the different 300 blackout loads, I just buy what I can get at the store, especially since it was so hard to find, its getting easier and cheaper lately which is a good thing..

If you guys have any recommendations on 300 blackout subsonic specifically for a short barrel bolt gun, let me know.

Thanks

[Gnarlytoes]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:22 PM, Cevans said:

I understand what you are saying, but seems most places, the 300 blackout comes in two varieties, supersonic and subsonic. The only exception I have dealt with is discreet ballistics. They do have option in 300 blackout for barrel length. But I haven't seen any 300 blackout ammo with one load for AR and another load for a bolt gun. Where would one go to find those specifically for a bolt gun or would you have to reload to create your own loads to get that specific.

The previous round was definitely not a squib round, it definitely went downrange and hit the target. The previous round was quiet because we were running suppressed with a Dead Air Sandman S. With both my AR pistol and the bolt gun we are discussing, 300 blackout is very quiet. Seems the bolt gun is a wee bit quieter, but it doesn't have the AR action you can hear.

Im gonna have to look into the different 300 blackout loads, I just buy what I can get at the store, especially since it was so hard to find, its getting easier and cheaper lately which is a good thing..

If you guys have any recommendations on 300 blackout subsonic specifically for a short barrel bolt gun, let me know.

Thanks

I'm sure there some specialty ammo places that have loads intended specifically for bolt guns, but I'm poor so I always just rolled my own. Loading allows you to tailor the round to your specific gun. It is possible to get them "Hollywood" quiet. My loads I shoot in my Savage are quieter than most pellet rifles. You hear the firing pin strike, a small whoosh, and then the bullet impact. When the light is right, I can sometimes actually see the bullet flying down range through the scope.

[Snaveba]

9 minutes ago, Gnarlytoes said:

When the light is right, I can sometimes actually see the bullet flying down range through the scope.

Kind of like a pellet rifle.

I would be curious what the energy of those rounds is, and what they would do to ballistic gel. 

[RED333]

7 hours ago, Snaveba said:

Kind of like a pellet rifle.

I would be curious what the energy of those rounds is, and what they would do to ballistic gel. 

200 gr bullet at 1100 FPS is about 530 Ft pounds.

https://larrywillis.com/bullet-energy.html

Speed of sound in feet per sec, https://convertlive.com/u/convert/speed-of-sound/to/feet-per-second#1