Healthcare idea

[timcalhoun]

Health Care:

So we all know the health care system needs to improve. While the US has the best HC technology in the world it is very expensive and more people need access. How do we lower the cost? The best way is to address the problem at its source? And that problematic source is largely insurance companies themselves. The amount of overhead a doctor has in dealing with insurance companies is major to say the least. Also, an insurance based system keeps the free market from doing what it does best, lower cost. If you can remember back in the 80s a CD player cost 800-900 dollars. Now you can go to wal-mart and pick one up for 20 bucks. Also, insurance companies greatly limit competition between hospitals and private practices. One hospital will accept your insurance at its full value and another one will accept it a 50%, but that one will do BCBS at 100%. They are not competing for the same customers. If it didn't matter where we went we would choose the place with the best healthcare at the best price. It would cut most healthcare procedures by 50%. Here is an example. When I look at my UHC statement the doctor charges let's say 100 dollars for procedure X. The insurance company paying 100% actually only pays 60-70 bucks and the debt is settled. Now if you have no insurance try to pay 70 cents on the dollar and see where you get. But here is the deal. The doctor, even with the insurance company only paying 70% of what was billed still makes a decent profit. Now if you get rid of the overhead of dealing with insurance companies what could he or she charge for procedure X. Yep.

So here is my plan:

Healthcare savings accounts have bee around a long time and basically this is a giant expansion on that idea.

First, every individual or family has a Healthcare savings account. The goal here is to get enough money in these accounts so that everyone is eventually self insured. How do we do that???? Well, initially we will have to come up with a number that represents an adequate amount per person. Then at first the government would insure each account to the full amount (I know I know....just bare with me here). Employers whom currently pay healthcare benefits would no longer pay that to an insurance company but instead will go directly to your HCSA. Those people who are self employed or whose employer does not pay healthcare benefits would contribute to his or her accounts at a certain percentage. Once the HCSA is fully funded you no longer need to deposit money in that account. So, the healthcare benefit that is paid by your employer now goes in your pocket. And the percentage that self employed deposited stays in their pockets. And here is the best part. That HCSA is your money! Now before you start to dance a jig, there are some strings attached. The account can only be used for medical expenses and if you use a potion you will have to go back to depositing money again until it is fully funded. But, since it is your money, you will be able to (in the event of your death) pass it to your children or in the case where there is no children you can will it to a person/persons of your choosing. Also, since the family medical account is greater because of the children, that portion alloted for them goes with them when they leave the nest greatly reducing the amount they will need to deposit in their own accounts.

Of course this is just a working idea that I know needs more fleshing out. But I think the left and the right could come together on this. Any thoughts???

[Guest Astra900]

I don't understand the whole healthcare thing myself. People want a free capitalist society to do business in, they want to come an go as they please, and when things get rough, they expect the gubment to fix it. That's a sorry, lazy ass system. Since when does the world owe anyone a damn thing? The whole idea of national HC is flawed and will never work...unless? Nope. Communism doesn't work very well, we know that. Other countries have free health care. My wife has a friend in Slovenia that pays nothing for any kind of health care. Flipside, when his government says jump, he does. No thanks.

Man wants to keep everything, give nothing, and when times are hard he wants to continue to survive at the expense of someone else. *coughKatrinaCough* Selfish cowards. Since when does the world owe us living?

I don't have any form of health care. Why? Well, that's what I get for not having an education. That's what I get for being stupid, and not grabbing life by the gonads and bending it to my will, by the sweat of my brow. As such, my expectations for my future???? I hope to die quickly, probably not. Probably some long and lingering something or other, but in any event, it's no one's problem but MINE. End of story.

If I get diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, no one owes me treatment. I don't wanna die, but death is a part of life. Man's heart is so evil, even the the atheist fears death. QUIT WHINING! Get to work! You know, 99% of life is what you make of it, so if your life sucks, you suck! Charity starts at home, so what have you done lately, for yourself, by yourself?

Taxing someone else to take care of me is garbage. Taxing me to take care of someone else is garbage. Social programs belong in a socialist society, which thanks to the "O" we are spiraling toward at twice the speed of sound.

Rant over. Please accept my virtual handi wipe as I clean up after :poop: on this thread.

[timcalhoun]

I don't understand the whole healthcare thing myself. People want a free capitalist society to do business in, they want to come an go as they please, and when things get rough, they expect the gubment to fix it. That's a sorry, lazy ass system. Since when does the world owe anyone a damn thing? The whole idea of national HC is flawed and will never work...unless? Nope. Communism doesn't work very well, we know that. Other countries have free health care. My wife has a friend in Slovenia that pays nothing for any kind of health care. Flipside, when his government says jump, he does. No thanks.

Man wants to keep everything, give nothing, and when times are hard he wants to continue to survive at the expense of someone else. *coughKatrinaCough* Selfish cowards. Since when does the world owe us living?

I don't have any form of health care. Why? Well, that's what I get for not having an education. That's what I get for being stupid, and not grabbing life by the gonads and bending it to my will, by the sweat of my brow. As such, my expectations for my future???? I hope to die quickly, probably not. Probably some long and lingering something or other, but in any event, it's no one's problem but MINE. End of story.

If I get diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, no one owes me treatment. I don't wanna die, but death is a part of life. Man's heart is so evil, even the the atheist fears death. QUIT WHINING! Get to work! You know, 99% of life is what you make of it, so if your life sucks, you suck! Charity starts at home, so what have you done lately, for yourself, by yourself?

Taxing someone else to take care of me is garbage. Taxing me to take care of someone else is garbage. Social programs belong in a socialist society, which thanks to the "O" we are spiraling toward at twice the speed of sound.

Rant over. Please accept my virtual handi wipe as I clean up after :poop: on this thread.

Well leading folks away from socialism is the whole idea behind this. I'm all for someone who is willing to opt out and die a horrible painful death if that is what they choose. And also giving the right of healthcare folks to refuse care for a history of none payment. Hell, if someone doesn't pay me I'm not going to continue to do the work. Also, if I could I would opt out of the social security system for sure.

What my attempt is with this, is to make sure everyone is out of the wagon and pushing.............not riding along and enjoying the ride.

[Guest Astra900]

What my attempt is with this, is to make sure everyone is out of the wagon and pushing.............not riding along and enjoying the ride.

I can go along with that for sure,makes perfect sense, but I don't see any boots on the ground do you?

[timcalhoun]

I can go along with that for sure,makes perfect sense, but I don't see any boots on the ground do you?

Well, for sure not with the Obama plan. We have the best HC system in the world and the left is willing to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[midtennchip]

Tim, your basic idea (i.e., make people better consumers/shoppers) has merit, it is not a silver bullet for "fixing" healthcare. Healthcare is extremely complex and insurance cost (or insurance "overhead") is a very small part. Technology and the desire of people to treat every possible ailment is the major cost factor. Bringing new equipment and drugs to market is extremely expensive, and unfortunately, the U.S. picks up more than its share of the cost for that development.

The typical health insurance plan pays out 85 to 90 percent of its premiums in provider claims. So, insurance companies use only 10 to 15 percent of premiums for adminitration and profit. Providers generally do not expend even 10 percent of their revenues towards insurance administration. In total, cutting out insurance would save (at best) 20 to 25 percent.

However, there will have to be so form of insurance. Some people would never be able to "fully fund" any type to health savings account. With some diseases, drugs alone cost over 10 grand a month. If you could even cut that in half, most people would never make enough to "save" for such treatment. So, some type of insurance is a necessity.

The countries that have cut out private insurance haven't figured it all out either. Those countries haven't reduced actual procedure costs that much by eliminating insurance. If they save any money, it's in limiting care, not significantly reducing costs.

Reducing costs is where we need to look, but savings account will not be enough.

[Guest Astra900]

The countries that have cut out private insurance haven't figured it all out either. Those countries haven't reduced actual procedure costs that much by eliminating insurance. If they save any money, it's in limiting care, not significantly reducing costs.

Reducing costs is where we need to look, but savings account will not be enough.

Other countries are far cheaper for comparable services than we are. You can go to Israel and get a hip replacement for less than half what Vanderbilt would charge, and enjoy your recovery at a dead sea spa. There are other countries doing similar things. America needs to find a way to cut cost on all ends, for sure.

[timcalhoun]

Tim, your basic idea (i.e., make people better consumers/shoppers) has merit, it is not a silver bullet for "fixing" healthcare. Healthcare is extremely complex and insurance cost (or insurance "overhead") is a very small part. Technology and the desire of people to treat every possible ailment is the major cost factor. Bringing new equipment and drugs to market is extremely expensive, and unfortunately, the U.S. picks up more than its share of the cost for that development.

The typical health insurance plan pays out 85 to 90 percent of its premiums in provider claims. So, insurance companies use only 10 to 15 percent of premiums for adminitration and profit. Providers generally do not expend even 10 percent of their revenues towards insurance administration. In total, cutting out insurance would save (at best) 20 to 25 percent.

However, there will have to be so form of insurance. Some people would never be able to "fully fund" any type to health savings account. With some diseases, drugs alone cost over 10 grand a month. If you could even cut that in half, most people would never make enough to "save" for such treatment. So, some type of insurance is a necessity.

The countries that have cut out private insurance haven't figured it all out either. Those countries haven't reduced actual procedure costs that much by eliminating insurance. If they save any money, it's in limiting care, not significantly reducing costs.

Reducing costs is where we need to look, but savings account will not be enough.

Well, even if it is as low as 20-25% as you suggest it would be a good start. No? Also, I believe a huge reason for the insurance companies paying out a high percentage is because of abuse. My wife is guilty of this as are most of the people with good insurance. She will take our boys to the doctor when they have a cold or has a fever more than a day or two. She says it's just 15 bucks. And 99% of the time the doc says "it's a virus...it will have to run it's course.....that will be 100 bucks.That would not happen nearly as much if it was really our money.

And I'm not suggesting getting rid of insurance all together. Insurance should be just that...... insurance against a catastropic happening. Not as a way of life. So, your insurance would kick in at a much larger amount and cost very little.

Also, the 10,000 grand a month thing is such a tiny percentage and would certanly be addressed by catastrophic insurance policy.

All I know is we (conservatives) are going to have to do something or we are going to wake up one day and think we live in france.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

Other countries are far cheaper for comparable services than we are. You can go to Israel and get a hip replacement for less than half what Vanderbilt would charge, and enjoy your recovery at a dead sea spa. There are other countries doing similar things. America needs to find a way to cut cost on all ends, for sure.

Vanderbilt, at least my department, only has a collection rate somewhere in the 40% range. I would imagine the Emergency Department is even lower, but I haven't bothered to run any reports. Granted, part of that is the insurance companies only paying a reduced portion of what gets charged, but there is still a significant portion of people who receive "free" healthcare that everyone else is already paying for.

Best way to cut costs is to get more people to actually pay for the services they receive or deny service to people who are unable to pay.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

Well, even if it is as low as 20-25% as you suggest it would be a good start. No? Also, I believe a huge reason for the insurance companies paying out a high percentage is because of abuse. My wife is guilty of this as are most of the people with good insurance. She will take our boys to the doctor when they have a cold or has a fever more than a day or two. She says it's just 15 bucks. And 99% of the time the doc says "it's a virus...it will have to run it's course.....that will be 100 bucks.That would not happen nearly as much if it was really our money.

That is not what drives the price of insurance high. The cost of a few PCP (primary care physician) visits pales in comparison to the cost of even one emergency room visit or a long term illness (cancer, diabetes, etc.).

This nation, as a whole, is not health focused. The majority of the population is obese and most people don't get enough physical activity. On top of that, when people are told that their lifestyle is causing problems, they choose to ignore the issue or attempt to deal with it with medication. You wouldn't believe how often people are told that exercise and diet will fix something and they don't even make an effort to try. "Just give me a pill that will fix it..."

The high cost of healthcare is a side effect of the modern entitlement attitude and laziness.

[timcalhoun]

Vanderbilt, at least my department, only has a collection rate somewhere in the 40% range. I would imagine the Emergency Department is even lower, but I haven't bothered to run any reports. Granted, part of that is the insurance companies only paying a reduced portion of what gets charged, but there is still a significant portion of people who receive "free" healthcare that everyone else is already paying for.

Best way to cut costs is to get more people to actually pay for the services they receive or deny service to people who are unable to pay.

+1

That is why we need to make sure everyone is paying. But if you want to opt you can. But we have to have the will to make them stand by their decision.

[timcalhoun]

That is not what drives the price of insurance high. The cost of a few PCP (primary care physician) visits pales in comparison to the cost of even one emergency room visit or a long term illness (cancer, diabetes, etc.).

This nation, as a whole, is not health focused. The majority of the population is obese and most people don't get enough physical activity. On top of that, when people are told that their lifestyle is causing problems, they choose to ignore the issue or attempt to deal with it with medication. You wouldn't believe how often people are told that exercise and diet will fix something and they don't even make an effort to try. "Just give me a pill that will fix it..."

The high cost of healthcare is a side effect of the modern entitlement attitude and laziness.

Yep. Here again is why we need folks to get involved in paying for their own healthcare.

[Guest grimel]

Problems 1-10 causing the cost of healthcare to be so "high" in the USA are Government, Government agencies, Government oversight, Government paying, repeat.

Make it a consumer based system not a government based system.

[Guest Astra900]

Best way to cut costs is to get more people to actually pay for the services they receive or deny service to people who are unable to pay.

I've been flamed hard for saying this before, but maybe they should adopt a pay or no service policy? If you're starving, you can't go into Kroger and get food, then not pay for it????? Seems harsh, but half the world's problems are population related. Let natural selection have free reign again.

But anyways, YES, if people would start paying for the services they receive, doctors and hospitals wouldn't feel the need to inflate their prices to make up for it.

[strickj]

There are severals problem with any system.The system we have now does not work.Any proposed system will not work.

Unfortunately,insurance needs to be done away with,plane and simple.

A great example is the auto repair industries.

If your car breaks down,you pay to have it fixed.However if you wreck it,theres no way in hell you could afford to pay to fix it,and thats because of insurance.

Problem being,medical facilities,doctors,etc will not give up the ins system because thats who pays them(most of the time anyway) without problems.So thats not going to happen!

The problem with the "social ins" is that people do not want to pay for it.

However what folks do not seem to see is that they already pay for it now,its just spread out instead of one single bill.

You pay for it with increased ins premiums,increased medical bills,and through your taxes.

When someone without ins goes to the ER for a cold,you pay for it,not the uninsured,and definitely not the hospital.

Ive done allot of studying on the matter,and there are some major ups to the social system,and some major downs to it as well.

I personally have been on more sides of the ins mess then your average person.Ive had great service that still cost me an arm and a leg for the little stuff,but Ive also been failed by them when I had my wreck,and was left with over a million dollars in legitimate medical bills,unpaid with no recourse.

I also have friends that went through the same thing as myself that had no ins.Funny thing is they received better service,was allowed to stay in the hospitals longer,and better/longer rehabilitation then I received from United Health Care.They also never received any million dollar bills afterwards!

Currently I use Medicare,which is gov funded.Its not free for me,or anybody as far as I know btw.

Ive yet to receive any of the horrible problems,and bad service from them that people say will happen from gov ins

It has problems,big problems,but it doesn't have the same type of problems as private ins does.

I'm not for social ins,really I'm not,but I guess my educated opinion,and experiences has changed my mind on the matter.I am for something different then whats being used now though!

If thats social,or no private ins,or monkeys with stethoscopes,makes no difference to me

Edited March 26, 2009 by strickj