Royal Range AD

[Fourtyfive]

https://www.wsmv.com/2022/10/12/metro-officer-woman-injured-accidental-shooting-gun-range/

[Fourtyfive]

I have transferred at least 10 firearms here, I consider all employees competent. I have witnessed my new transfers checked before I inspected them prior to paperwork. Things just go South sometimes. Still no excuse in it.

[Garufa]

“We always recommend you look at it twice and poke your finger in it once to know the gun is unloaded,” Allen said.

Somebody help me out here. WTH does that mean?  
 

Apparently, their safety protocols do need to be reevaluated. 

[Ronald_55]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

... look at it twice and poke your finger in it once

Sounds like a girl I knew once...

This AD is the kind of reason I drop the mag and clear the chamber on every gun I am handed in a store. Plus, I still NEVER pull the trigger even on an unloaded gun there. 

This one sounds like everyone got lucky. Someone could have taken one to the chest instead of the floor. 

[Pain103]

Somebody’s going to get a check. 

[A.J. Holst]

18 hours ago, Garufa said:

“We always recommend you look at it twice and poke your finger in it once to know the gun is unloaded,” Allen said.

Somebody help me out here. WTH does that mean?  
 

Apparently, their safety protocols do need to be reevaluated. 

Slide locked open to insert finger into chamber (and magwell) as an extra step beyond visual inspection.

We perform this step in our classes before starting dry fire drills.

[Will]

WWII Germany after war ended and many troops had to stay on for  the clean up effort because they did not have enough points to go home and they had a lot of time to fool around with captured weapons,my dad said   I seen more of our troops shot with careless gun handling than by the enemy.  Thank God he drilled firearms safety into me from a little kid on.   

[Erich]

Those were some pretty remarkable comments made by the ‘training director’. 

Subverting responsibility, and treating the like is just one of those things that happen beyond their control. He doesn’t seem to understand it’s a refection of his attitude and  poor practices. Two key item he said compared to what we all know we’d do:

 

WSMV4 asked Allen if it is the responsibility of the employees to check the gun before handing it the customer.

“Sometimes yet, but sometimes it happens before the employees can stop them,” Allen said.

The right answer:  Yes. Always yes

 

“when you deal with deadly force tools in your hands a lot, unfortunately every now and then something like that happens,” Allen said. “We are just trying to minimize this happening ever again.”

How about: Prevent this happening ever again.

When you resign yourself to safety is just a nice thing to have if you have time to be bothered to remember and that personal responsibility is beyond your control…you get what you get. 

Got to hand it to this guy for having the nards to be quoted saying, well…guns…sh@t happens, what the hell do you expect me to do about it.

 

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, Erich said:

Those were some pretty remarkable comments made by the ‘training director’. 

Subverting responsibility, and treating the like is just one of those things that happen beyond their control. He doesn’t seem to understand it’s a refection of his attitude and  poor practices. Two key item he said compared to what we all know we’d do:

 

WSMV4 asked Allen if it is the responsibility of the employees to check the gun before handing it the customer.

Look, I am going to give these folks the benefit of the doubt because I've been a customer and I got to spend about two hours with Bob Allen talking about a variety of topics for a podcast in the past and found him to be incredibly knowledgeable, professional and squared away.  He's not some Paul Blart Mall Cop type.

The media isn't exactly known for quoting things accurately OR in context, nor are they known for being favorable toward gun ownership issues.  So bear those things in mind before we start piling onto the bandwagon.

[Erich]

4 hours ago, TGO David said:

Look, I am going to give these folks the benefit of the doubt because I've been a customer and I got to spend about two hours with Bob Allen talking about a variety of topics for a podcast in the past and found him to be incredibly knowledgeable, professional and squared away.  He's not some Paul Blart Mall Cop type.

The media isn't exactly known for quoting things accurately OR in context, nor are they known for being favorable toward gun ownership issues.  So bear those things in mind before we start piling onto the bandwagon.

Absolutely your prerogative. I would offer there is potentially a bias at work based on personal relationships or familiarity which is choosing to ignore a single objective fact in this, or rather excuse it.

I have made no secret of the fact I think the media is about pushing  agenda, so I'm one of the last people taking things as rote from the media. Throwing out the Editorial content, one is left with events and wording.  If you are holding out that they have purposely changed the words and misquoting, yes, that would matter. But its also possible they did not.

Focusing on events. Really only one needs to be considered:

A The women was handed a loaded gun with it having been thru multiple employee hands at the point she picked it up.

This required a particular environment to allow that chain of events to occur. Especially in a professional environment. I appreciate that folks can be genial, talk the talk, but execution is all that matters at the end of the day.  They did not execute as events clearly show.

The gun did not do this. This was a process / people failure. In my mind those in charge shoulder higher responsibility for ensuring competent staff who follow procedure at all times if they were not directly involved. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Erich

[RED333]

More than one "Dumb A$$" involved.

[Grayfox54]

Complacency breeds contempt. You get so used to handling guns that you don't pay attention anymore and just blindly go through the motions. 

[Dustbuster]

Might be time to invest in a load o chamber flags…

[TGO David]

On 10/13/2022 at 11:07 PM, Erich said:

Absolutely your prerogative. I would offer there is potentially a bias at work based on personal relationships or familiarity which is choosing to ignore a single objective fact in this, or rather excuse it.

I'm not surprised by this conclusion and rather expected it.  Not because of you but because of the relationship that TGO has with Royal Range.  Damned if I do, damned if I don't... so I just do.   

The fact remains that I'm allowed to have a personal opinion based on personal experiences.  It's also probably worth pointing out that my opinion IS based on personal experiences rather than what I read on the Internet, newspaper, or heard on a news broadcast from a third party.  Some folks would say that it makes my opinion a qualified opinion.

The fact also remains that a negligent discharge occurred and that two people were wounded.  That's not excusable, everyone was terribly lucky, and I would expect that changes in procedures will result because the folks that I've met at that range are squared away and won't ignore the fact that this happened or that there were check-points that failed to catch the loaded gun before it was handed to a customer.

This is a good reminder to all of us that these tools, just like any tool, are dangerous and that skipping safety steps can and will result in injury or death.

I'm just not out to crucify someone because of how the media chose to quote them. 

 

[TGO David]

8 hours ago, Dustbuster said:

Might be time to invest in a load o chamber flags…

Not a bad idea but I also can't tell you how many times over the years that I've seen prospective buyers of high-end pistols get worked up over the silliest of things like seeing a loaded chamber flag stuck into the breach of a Ted Yost, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc. 1911.

It's almost like the thought of anyone other than them, or the gunsmith who hand-crafted it, racking the slide somehow devalues the gun by $3,000.

I doubt many people would care if someone crammed a chamber flag down the barrel of a Glock 19, though. 

[Chucktshoes]

43 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I'm not surprised by this conclusion and rather expected it.  Not because of you but because of the relationship that TGO has with Royal Range.  Damned if I do, damned if I don't... so I just do.   

The fact remains that I'm allowed to have a personal opinion based on personal experiences.  It's also probably worth pointing out that my opinion IS based on personal experiences rather than what I read on the Internet, newspaper, or heard on a news broadcast from a third party.  Some folks would say that it makes my opinion a qualified opinion.

The fact also remains that a negligent discharge occurred and that two people were wounded.  That's not excusable, everyone was terribly lucky, and I would expect that changes in procedures will result because the folks that I've met at that range are squared away and won't ignore the fact that this happened or that there were check-points that failed to catch the loaded gun before it was handed to a customer.

This is a good reminder to all of us that these tools, just like any tool, are dangerous and that skipping safety steps can and will result in injury or death.

I'm just not out to crucify someone because of how the media chose to quote them. 

 

I am trying to be mindful to not be “Internet gun guy“ and joint in on the dog piles so often these days. So I will leave the assessment of internal procedures to the folks who work there. All I can offer are procedures I used to ensure I did not hand a loaded firearm to a customer when I worked behind the counter at a gun store.

I would lock the slide back, drop the magazine, inspect the chamber and mag well, inspect the magazine, release the slide, then re-insert the magazine. I would perform these actions every time I handled a firearm whether I was handing it to a customer, being handed it from the customer, or even just moving the firearm around inside the store.

[felinesNfreedom]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

Not a bad idea but I also can't tell you how many times over the years that I've seen prospective buyers of high-end pistols get worked up over the silliest of things like seeing a loaded chamber flag stuck into the breach of a Ted Yost, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc. 1911.

It's almost like the thought of anyone other than them, or the gunsmith who hand-crafted it, racking the slide somehow devalues the gun by $3,000.

I doubt many people would care if someone crammed a chamber flag down the barrel of a Glock 19, though. 

Good lord, as someone who sells firearms part time you are very correct. We have one customer who wants to break the gun down and inspect it with a flashlight before buying....... I'm not talking about a 2,000.00 gun, just normal glocks and such. I just go with it these days.

[StrategicFS]

Honestly don't know how brick & mortar gun shops do it with some of the folks coming in these days. My hats off to gun shop employees. 

[CKerwin]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:56 PM, TGO David said:

Look, I am going to give these folks the benefit of the doubt because I've been a customer and I got to spend about two hours with Bob Allen talking about a variety of topics for a podcast in the past and found him to be incredibly knowledgeable, professional and squared away.  He's not some Paul Blart Mall Cop type.

The media isn't exactly known for quoting things accurately OR in context, nor are they known for being favorable toward gun ownership issues.  So bear those things in mind before we start piling onto the bandwagon.

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by CKerwin
Unprofessional of myself

[gary_boom]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:56 AM, TGO David said:

Not a bad idea but I also can't tell you how many times over the years that I've seen prospective buyers of high-end pistols get worked up over the silliest of things like seeing a loaded chamber flag stuck into the breach of a Ted Yost, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc. 1911.

It's almost like the thought of anyone other than them, or the gunsmith who hand-crafted it, racking the slide somehow devalues the gun by $3,000.

I doubt many people would care if someone crammed a chamber flag down the barrel of a Glock 19, though. 

Kind of like marrying a virgin.

[TGO David]

I'm not one to argue with firsthand experience.  @CKerwin, thank you for sharing your own experiences.  What you described is pretty alarming.